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tofu

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    Klipsch Modding - Has It Gone Too Far?

    in Technical/Restorations

    Posted

    DMAN:

    What are the exact electronic measurement differences, freq response, distortion, efficiencies, radiation patterens, impedances, power handling capabilities, low power performance, high power performance, temperature & humidity effects, transient responses, resonance variations between cheap speakers and expensive speakers? Do you employ an engineering staff and a fully furnished lab to evaluate your new setups? I paid big money for my speakers so I wouldn't have to mess with those problems. Now if Klipsch offered a fully tested and improved driver kit I would consider that option.

    i know this question wasn't directed toward me, but i feel the need to chime in.

    why exactly are you so intent on having others tell you if your speakers meet their approval or not?

    can't you tell for yourself if something sounds better or worse? who cares if klipsch agrees with your modifications or not.

    and what's the big deal with all of these paper specs (freq response, distortion, efficiencies, radiation patterens,

    impedances, power handling capabilities, low power performance, high

    power performance, temperature & humidity effects, transient

    responses, resonance)? i prefer to listen with my ears, not look at a piece of paper and use my eyes to judge components.

    Klipsch Modding - Has It Gone Too Far?

    in Technical/Restorations

    Posted

    You're missing my point tofu.

    Most people that buy Klipsch buy them because they like that "Klipsch" sound so much. That's also why some folks who are fortunate enough to afford it and have the space in their house for it, go out and buy several different pairs of Klipsch loudspeakers.

    I'm not against improving the sound. Far from it, but there is a point when it gets to be too much.

    What I'm getting at is if you have a $4000 pair of LS' and then mod them by putting in 511b's and 902's and a new network to adjust everything for the change, you no longer have a LS with that "Klipsch" sound.

    If it were me and I was not happy with the sound of the stock LS', then I would have saved that $4000 and built my own loudspeakers with the 511b, 902, a nice horn tweeter of some kind, a heavier duty woofer than the K33, and a custom network for a lot less.

    I'm not saying there's anything wrong with completely redesigning a Klipsch loudspeaker. It's your speakers and money to do what you want with. It's just that it's no longer what you first purchased, a Klipsch.

    It's kind of like with my Mazda Miata. That car was designed to mimic the old britsh roadsters and be an excellent handling little FUN car that can be tossed in and out of corners with a flick of the wrist; light and nimble. It wasn't designed for power and speed. So when you get one of those Ford V8 motor swap kits for it, you now have a very powerfull and fast little Miata, but is doesn't handle worth a crap anymore and has no traction. It's no longer a TRUE Miata anymore. It's an abomination somewhere between a Ford Mustang and a shoe box at that point.

    to be honest, i don't know of anyone on these forums who bought their speakers for $4k and did irreversable modifications to them. mine were bought used.

    at the time i purchased my speakers, i had no intention of modifying them. hell, i didn't even know altec made anything aside from computer speakers. if i were to build the cabinets myself and make all my "modified part substitutions," i might have saved a few hundred, but i needed a good foundation to work from. had i known then what i know now, things probably would have worked out differently.

    i did not buy my speakers because they had a "klipsch sound." i bought them because i liked what i heard. same applies to my modifications. i did not do them because i'm an altec fan, but rather because it sounds better than a bone stock la scala. i'm fully aware that it's not 100% a klipsch speaker anymore, and i don't try to pass it off as one.

    Klipsch Modding - Has It Gone Too Far?

    in Technical/Restorations

    Posted

    Why are we all here? Why do we all own Klipsch loudspeakers?

    I believe we are here because we all love to that famous Klipsch sound.

    Don't get me wrong, I love to mod things just as much as the next guy, but I do believe there's a limit to where modding should stopped. Now I'm not talking about CornScalla's, CT125's, Bob's, Al's or Dean's networks or even building totally different enclosures all together. Even using an Altec 511b or 811b horn with a K55 driver is ok, but even that's starting to push it to the limit. All you're doing is taking the existing loudspeaker and the associated components and making them work better together. That's perfectly fine and I enjoy reading and seeing some of the ideas your guys come up with. Any combination you come up with, it's still going to have that Klipsch sound due to the drivers and horns being used. That's what brought you to Klipsch in the first place, isn't it?

    But when you completely rework a speaker into something entirely different is where I draw the line. This includes modifications such as changing out the squawker horn to an Altec 511b or 811b with an Altec driver, or like one guy did to a pair of Khorns, completely eliminating the squawker all together and replacing it with a pair of 10" JBL drivers and a JBL bi-radial horn tweeter. Hate to say it, but you no longer have a Klipsch Khorn with that "Klipsch" sound. You now have a Frankenstein loudspeaker that kinda looks like a Khorn, but sounds like an Altec or JBL.

    If you don't care for the sound of Klipsch, then why did you spend $1000-$7000+ to buy them in the first place? If you prefer Altec or JBL, there are plenty of V.O.T.'s and vintage JBL's on eBay to snag up.

    I'm sorry if I'm ranting, I just don't grasp the concept of going to this extreme rout of modding Klipsch.

    i'm not fully understanding you here...

    why would one draw a line if sound is continually being improved? personally, i don't buy audio components for emotional reasons, i buy them because of the way they perform. if i thought bose had a better sounding stock speaker, i would've purchased it over my la scalas in a heartbeat. my 511b's sound better and so do my altec 902's. i'm not sure why i should limit myself just so my speakers sound like something inferior.

    klipsch speakers are great, but there will never be a product that can't be further improved. the two speakers most talked about here (khorn, la scala) are great stock, but it'd just be silly to say they can't sound better.

    Oh My God!!! (exuse the use)

    in Home Theater

    Posted

    Hey Scooterdog,

    I am sorry I got to this thread late--They evidently deleted the AVS thread. I don't know anything about the group mentioned but if it was a Klipsch bash I was ready to get into the fray and offer some slack. [;)]

    looks like i missed the fun :(

    BEC BOX & Tweeter

    in Technical/Restorations

    Posted

    PS EDIT: Are you running two or three-way?

    i ran it two-way for a day. i experienced the same "where did my tweeter go?" ordeal.

    it was later confirmed by al and dean that the crossover modification they suggested would not work correctly, so i said screw it and put everything back together. as far as i know, the upper frequencies shouldn't have been affected by the crossover error, only the crossover point, so my opinion may still be valid.

    Pair of K-400 Squawker horns for sale

    in Technical/Restorations

    Posted

    so sfogg,

    you just threw a glob of putty on the lips of the 511b's? i'm assuming i can do the same with the extra rope caulk i have left over? interesting how you didn't have to line the entire lip. i'll try lining the top and bottom with the rope caulk so it looks neater instead of squishing it all up in the middle.

    because these things sure as hell ring when i clap. it's not a subtle ring either. although when i play music, i can't detect the ringing. i suppose it's masked by the music pretty well.

    -chris

    How do i convert Universal ALKs to 2-way? (refer to second page) --thread recycled

    in 2-Channel Home Audio

    Posted

    so, i'm ready to start rewiring my networks today. just one last question remains unanswered.

    dean says the 44uf value will raise my crossover to ~600hz (i say ~600 because it will be more along the lines of 44.4uf)

    but al says that will lower my crossover point BELOW 400hz..

    i value both of your information highly, and when you start contradicting eachother with non opinionated issues, it really confuses me [;)].

    can i get a final answer on this?

    How do i convert Universal ALKs to 2-way? (refer to second page) --thread recycled

    in 2-Channel Home Audio

    Posted

    The advantage of having LaScalas it that you don't have to force that driver into playing lower than intended. I would run it down to 600Hz first order and strongly respect the power rating of the driver. 1st order sounds the best to me personally -- but increased distortion becomes an issue much sooner than with higher order filters.

    yea but the idea was for me to modify this without buying new parts ;)

    How do i convert Universal ALKs to 2-way? (refer to second page) --thread recycled

    in 2-Channel Home Audio

    Posted

    Al was right. I left off one red "x". So there you have it. A first order if you want it. Adding the .3mHy parrallel will allow it to roll off quicker. It will still be close to 400Hz.

    I can't offer advice on the 902. I am the one who told IBSlammin to remove the 4uF cap from his Type B network to a 6.8uF cap so that the 902 of his would run at 400Hz. There is no bandpass on it so it is 400Hz and up. He told me as well that he can crank it. I can't recommend by no means that this is "ok". I don't know enough about the driver.

    HOWEVER! The 902 on his network is attenuated -6db to match the reflex/ported K33. This may allow more power handling ability.

    FWIW

    jc

    so what would be the better choice? the first order that al suggested or running the .3mh in parallel as jwc said? personally i'd prefer second order for the steeper rolloff, but i'm not sure if jwc's suggestion is safe or not.

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