Lol yeha peter, you told me to get it from ecosts or etronics, well loud, when I say loud, its just, loud... loud enough so my mom would be reallllly pissed, lol, anyway with my RVX-350, I used to be able to crank it at -5db and I was happy, I mean, that was loud, yet the receiver couldnt handle it more than 2minutes, now, it cant even handle -10db, go figure, but yeah, I just want to push it and get a good sound, I think I'll buy one from Futurshop, test it for a weekend and return it! (I love their return policy!!)