Tarheel
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Posts posted by Tarheel
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DeanG...sorry I missed the sarcasm, my apology. My last post is a tongue tied smiley face. Thanks for taking the time to read my thoughts....I was very excited about the improved sound and all the invaluable information I have gathered has been from this forum or from Bluesboy directly. I continue to be amazed that you can buy used or after market components, have a friend that is a master carpenter, steal other peoples ideas and have a wonderful end product for such a low price. LOL back.
Joe....Beyma tweeters for now but I wonder has anyone heard the Visaton tweeter mentioned in Stereophile review of the La Scala ll? I haven't ordered the Beymas so any imput appreciated. I don't know about the xover point other than we changed to a different tap on the BEC xover to compensate for my 8 ohm drivers. Maybe Bluesboy can shed some light on this. BEC had responded on an earlier thread about the mod needed and we did as he said. As I said earlier...I love what I am hearing!
Chuck
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I called another forum member before I responded and asked what he thought of the post by Dean since I had never known him to be negative. The reply was "I think he is serious". If he was joking as you suggest it went right over my head and my apologies to him. Thanks Marvel for your imput.[:S]
Chuck
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Speakerfritz...thanks for the encouragement. I am excited about the project and the sound so far. Will do pics later.
Chops....the bass bins are sealed and just like the 1977 klipsch factory drawings except that we are using 1" mdf like the La Scala lls.
Terry...I guess you are right... they may be ugly but the number of problems it corrects in my set up makes me happy. I think when we are finished it may look better than you think. I am a little concerned about the boxy appearance especially with the tweeter mounted on the face frame like a little box. Like you said...when the lights are off....
DeanG....I don't know what to think about your post...it caught me off guard. I really wasn't expecting the negativity...maybe I caught you on a bad day. No testing was done other than the test Bluesboy and I did with our ears and that is the important one to me. Believe me when I say that I am not trying to get anyone to believe anything about this project or the sound it produces. The modifications or "bastardized" top section as you called it is purely for my enjoyment and the statements I made are only my impressions. As for the heritage top section sounding so good...I would say that there are many on the forum who have complained about the harshness/ringing of the k-400 and many who are using Beymas and BEC's tweeter rather than the k-77. I will make a deal with you....you do your charts, curves and graphs and plot everything just so.... and I will listen to music
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Bluesboy came over last night with his 511B horns bolted to a temporary frame and we hooked them up to my Altec 902 drivers. We changed the BEC xover as suggested by Bob and wired everything up. Because I don't have room in the corners to toe in my speakers this arrangement worked out fine. I was able to hear the new components and to toe them in for the first time. What a difference! I am very pleased with the results...the horns and drivers are so much clearer as most of you already know.
The nest step is to build the bass bins and Bluesboy has already cut the parts. We have the woofers and I will be ordering Beymas. We will paint the 1" mdf with piano black lacquer and make a new frame that will let the tweeter sit on top of the 511B face frame. There will be no top cabinet. I will sit the xover under the back of the horn...so in other words everything on top of the bass bin will be exposed. I can then move the horn and tweeter as often as I like and try differents placements.
Thanks to BEC and Bluesboy!
Chuck
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By the time I change out tubes or interconnects I can't recall what the previous component sounded like ( too much time has elapsed) or what the specific difference is. I recently swapped out el-34s in my horn monos to some JJ KT-77s and thought there was an improvement but couldn't put my finger on it without putting the el-34s back. I think you need to A-B components very quickly or the change is not as pronounced. I recall psychological theories from my college days about "two point threshold" and "just noticeable difference" that tried to explain these concepts.
I just got a catalog in the mail with all these product tweaks for audio such as high dollar cables, maple blocks, cone feet, isopads, spay on electronic enhancers, line conditioners, electrical receptacles and the like and just wondered how much of it is snake oil. One claim was that getting your speaker wire off the carpet was like taking a wet blanket off your speakers. They offered a product that looked like 3 sticks with a rubber band that forms a tripod to lift your speaker wire!
I also read a cartridge review recently that stated that the Clearaudio Maestro Cartdidge($1000) was a big improvement over my Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood cartridge($800) and I thought to myself that I doubt the reviewer could pick one cartridge from the other in a blind test. But if they said this no one would be buying their new products. The illusion that there is an improvement or the possibility that there could be sells a lot of gear.
Chuck
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Thanks for the reply Bob. I will take a look at the xover and hopefully just plug and play.
Chuck
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Duke.....they are 8 ohm drivers....what are you thinking? Chuck
I'm thinking you will have to change your crossover
Duke...I am using Bob Crites AA xover...the ones on the Arkansas Cedar. So there is no way for me to try out the new horns and drivers without new xovers? If this is a dumb question please keep in mind that I know nothing about xovers. I guess I should have bought the 16 ohm drivers? Advice please.
Chuck
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George...my drivers are 902-8T, the 8 ohm. Came in yesterday from seller on ebay....nice and clean. Duke said I must change my BEC xover since they are 8 ohm drivers. Bummer! I wanted to just set them on top of the speaker to try them out. It would also seem from comments I read that the horn needs to be bolted to a frame or I may get the ringing that prompted me to abandon the original horns.
Speakerfritz...I know nothing about xovers but I don't think I can change taps on the Crite xover? I have been told to buy ALK universal but hate to spend the money just to see if the 511B is going to correct the ringing concern. Advice?
Chuck
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Thanks for those pictures George....I want to do the same with my La Scalas using the 511b and 902 Altecs and your set up would be a great way of auditioning the new horns and drivers. Glad to hear your results were so positive.
Chuck
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Subscribers are getting theirs now, I don't know about newsstands. I thought the review was just pretty good, as Tellig wandered over a lot of old territory on PWK's life while getting to the point. I was never quite sure what all the positives were, as he kept busy slaying decades-old dragons about horn sound and prattling on about the dynamics. Toward the end, he said he added a super-tweeter, the Visaton TL 16H from Germany, to get the sparkle he was missing. This altering of a manufacturer's product in a test seemed to be out of the ordinary and didn't set that well with me.
He ended up on a positive note, saying that he was keeping his La Scalas (Visaton and all?).
lc
Has anyone heard these tweeters (Visaton TL 16H)? I am in the process of building La Scalas and had been planning on using Beymas. Is his hookup to the binding post of the speaker without the xover an acceptable practice?
Chuck
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The original owner of my horn monos did a lot of tube rolling prior to selling me his amps. He assured me that you could use any tube that would fit the socket and that the amps are self biasing. He listed many of his favorites but sold me the amps with the original tubes. As stated earlier at Craig's advice I went to Dougs Tubes and talked with him about his favorites. I decided on the JJ KT-77s, a copy of the Marconi Osram tube when they were a part of GEC. I have been pleased with the results and the tubes were not expensive.
Chuck
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Duke.....they are 8 ohm drivers....what are you thinking? Chuck
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Thanks for the tip...I will look for Sfogg's thread. I plan on using ALK universals with either horn. Just noticed I have passed my 100 post so I am going to take the weekend off. I certainly don't know enough to talk that much!
Have a great weekend and I appreciate your help.
Chuck
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J.4Knee.....no I want to stay 3 way...am considering Beymas. Have you mounted the 511 in a cabinet or is it sitting on top of the speaker? Would like to see a picture if anyone has done that.
Chuck
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Thanks for more good comments Shawn....the BEC crossovers are type AA. Yes I do plan on changing the tweeters to Beymas. Going to check out the thread you sent right now.
Chuck
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Tom....this being my second pair in two years I wanted to run it by Al first to make sure I was heading in the right direction. I hope he doesn't mind that I quoted him but thats what he emailed me. I am sorry but I can't elaborate further. As you may have gathered I have little to no skills in speaker building and don't know jack about crossovers and/or horns. Bluesboy, a friend of mine, does all the skilled work and I pay the bills. I also try to do a little research first and the forum is a great place for that.
With the other equipment I have bought this will be my last chance for awhile to "get it right". I love the looks of the big 511 horn exposed and have heard it in a k-horn with the 902 and it sounds great to me. I just bought some 902s on ebay this week and I have the 511 and 811 on hand. I think I will buy the xover kit from ALK and experiment with the two horns before the cab is built for the midrange. The bass bins are already underway. I also will buy the adaptor kit and try the k-55 with the new horns.
And just think....until I heard Bluesboys new K-horns with the 511b and Altec 902s and ALK xovers I was fairly content with my LS.
Why don't you start your project first and I can go to school on your efforts?
Chuck
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There's a forum member working on installing a pair of trackhorns in his LaScala's, not sure how that is coming along. But assume for now, they will sit on top of the LaSala cabs.
Wouldn't that pay for the trackhorns?
Use the k-55s with the trachorns?
I will be building from scratch so I would be building a new cabinet for the horn either way I proceed.
Chuck
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Welcome to the forum Vito!
Chuck
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I am running a 511B with my La Scala's and it is head and shoulders better than the K400. However, I am using the Klipsch K55 driver with mine. Like someone else mentioned the La Scala bass horn rolls off well below 800hz and therefore rules out the 811B.
I suggest you try just the 511B's with your existing drivers first and then go from there. In order to use the K55's you will need an adaptor that allows the 511B's to mate to them. You can get this adaptor from Parts Express for about $5. I'll find the part number for you.
Mike
Thanks Mike.... that is an idea I had not considered. If you can get me the part number I would appreciate it. Can I use the BEC cossover to this?
Chuck
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Thanks guys for all the good advice and comments. I still don't know what I will do but there are a lot of options....I just want to do it right this time since this will be the second pair of LS in two years and I want it to be the last. On the plus side I have a pair of 511horns and a pair of 811 horns on hand. I could take Mike's idea and hook those up to the k-55 drivers after I get the adaptors and see how the horns sound compared to the k-400 I am not fond of.
If cost was not a consideration I would just get the trachorn and ALK crossover and be done with it. Those 2 items alone would exceed my cost for all components in the first pair of LS! Then I would have to buy the k-33 and Beymas plus pay Bluesboy at least minimum wage for his excellent cabinet work...not to mention the piano black lacquer. Enough whining.
I will throw out one last hypothetical. If you had to work with the width of the LS being the only given and a ceiling of $1200 for parts, and the rest of the speaker a blank canvas what would you do and why?
See what I am doing....picking the brains of the experienced for free consultations to further lower the price! But youre all my best buds ...right
Chuck
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I have been told the Altec 902/511b is not the combination I want in the LaScala modification. The 811b was suggested with the 902s. " Your plans sound good but you do not need to crossover so low that you need 511 horns. "The LS woofer will go higher. Cross over at 700hz and use the 902s with the 811b horn instead".
Can I try the 902s and 811b with BEC crossover that I now have that cross at 400hz(?) or must the xover be modded to cross at 700hz or will the xover recognize the different horn and adjust? I just want to sit the horns and drivers on top of the cabinet and listen fo awhile before I build a new set of scalas.
All this is to deal with the midrange that I do not like.
Comments appreciated.
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Nice equipment and setup Luther. Wish the event was closer. The reels of tape are starting to roll in from the tape exchange so I will enjoy those while you all party.
Best to everyone!
Chuck
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Looks like plans have changed on the new speakers. Have been advised to use 811b Altecs with the 902 drivers rather than the 511b. Can I audition the new horn (811) and driver by sitting them on top of the cabinet and hooking them up to the BEC crossovers that crossover at 400hz. Was told that the LaScala woofer will go higher and to cross at 700hz or in other words "you do not need to cross over so low that you need a 511 horn". Do I need to make any adjustments to the xover?
Chuck
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Thanks Michael.....I would love to see pictures of the LaScala with the 511 in place if anyone out there has done this. I will take some photos as we move from the bass bins (relatively straightforward) to the horn and tweeter cabinet since this is where the creative juices will flow. This is new territory so all imput is appeciated. Any suggestions on the xovers?
Chuck
LS with 511B and Altec 902...first impression
in Technical/Restorations
Posted
I am using it as a 3 way but this is a very temporary set up just so I could listen to the horns. Don has already told me I need to go to a different xover so that we could experiment a little with different settings. Dean...I am pretty ignorant about xovers so I will defer to Don with your suggestion. At this point the k-77 is firing straight ahead while the 511s are toed in. I know this is a problem but the tweeter-511 face frame should correct this.
Don has the Beymas and they do sound good. I like to follow what others have tried rather than recreate the wheel. It sounds like you have already done all this so any suggestions appreciated. Don is working on the bass bins this morning and has mounted the k-33s. I was hoping to make do with the xovers for awhile but it sounds like I need to go ahead and change those to. I guess I can sell my Altec woofers, k-400 horn and drivers, my k-77 tweeters and the AA xovers since I won't be using them.
Thanks for the info.
Chuck