Tarheel
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Posts posted by Tarheel
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A thread discussing xovers lead to an exchange between Al and a forum rep resulting in Al deciding to end his association with the forum. This is the version I heard and may not be all of the story.
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Definitely a sad day and a great loss to the forum[
]. As a relatively new member I appreciate the time Al took to answer all of my questions no matter how elementary they must have seemed to him. I usually considered his comments as the final word in most discussions. I hope Al will reconsider after some time has passed....but if not... all the best in the future.Chuck
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An update on the new Scalas. The Beyma tweeters came today from US Speaker. I am using the 511b and 902 drivers and new k-33s as planned. I will be using the BEC xovers for now and have changed the tap position as recommended. We are mounting the horns and tweeters in a piece of Paduak I bought Saturday at a hardwood import shop. Very nice looking grain pattern. The facade will look a little like a bell shape with a more gentle slope with the baby cheeks on top and center. These will sit exposed on top of the bass bins. I will be able to toe in the top part without moving the bass bin and this should solve my restricted corner problem. I think the black bins and the natural finished ( think rosewood color) top should look okay.
The bass bins are built and have all but the final top coat of black laquer. One problem we are having is trying to seal the edge grain of the 1" mdf. The edges keep soaking up the paint. At this point I am a little concerned about the finish. We used semi gloss which is not looking too much like a black lacquer piano finish I am use to so we may go to high gloss for the next coat or two. Any tips appreciated.
I still have my LS clones with the Altec 416 woofers if anyone is interested. Bluesboy will post pics later.
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Chuck,
I like the idea of framing the HF section in a tophat. Why not go with a natural wood finish for the bass bin too? Looking forward to seeing pics!
Joe
Joe...We used 1" MDF and I couldn't find any locally already veneered or I would have gone natural. The speakers now have the third coat of piano black and only the end grain needs another coat. Bluesboy came up with the idea of framing the edges of the bass bin in natural to tie it in with the top but I want to see a mock up of that before deciding.
John and Intotubes...I will pass that along to Bluesboy...my speaker builder. I am all in favor of saving the $300+ for tweeters. Thanks for the suggestion.
Chuck
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I need 2 Beyma CP25 tweeters in good shape for the LS rebuild project. Please call if you have some you are willing to part with. 910 200-1225 or 395-0825 nights.
Chuck
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Thanks Carl for the reply. Primered and sprayed first top coat of piano black on the new bass bins yesterday...Bluesboy will post some pics today. Decided to frame the horn and tweeter in a natural finished wood possibly rosewood to go with the black bass bins. I think it will look good. Good luck with your project and post some pics.
Chuck
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You are right Dean...mine are BEC's type A. I guess I have been on the keyboard too long today. Thanks for catching that and for the modification info.
Chuck
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Speakerfritz....just curious... how did the tube swap go for you? Any thoughts on the kt-77s? I did the same swap in Quicksilver Horn Monos with good results.
Chuck
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Thanks Carl for the info. Definitely interested in your used Beymas. Let me know if you want to sell them. I will be away from the pc for the weekend after 5:00 pm today but if you want to call.... my number is 910 395-0825 or 910 200-1225. Know anyone with xovers for the k-33, 511b, 902 Altec (8 ohm), Beyma combination?
Chuck
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I am using it as a 3 way but this is a very temporary set up just so I could listen to the horns. Don has already told me I need to go to a different xover so that we could experiment a little with different settings. Dean...I am pretty ignorant about xovers so I will defer to Don with your suggestion. At this point the k-77 is firing straight ahead while the 511s are toed in. I know this is a problem but the tweeter-511 face frame should correct this.
Don has the Beymas and they do sound good. I like to follow what others have tried rather than recreate the wheel. It sounds like you have already done all this so any suggestions appreciated. Don is working on the bass bins this morning and has mounted the k-33s. I was hoping to make do with the xovers for awhile but it sounds like I need to go ahead and change those to. I guess I can sell my Altec woofers, k-400 horn and drivers, my k-77 tweeters and the AA xovers since I won't be using them.
Thanks for the info.
Chuck
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DeanG...sorry I missed the sarcasm, my apology. My last post is a tongue tied smiley face. Thanks for taking the time to read my thoughts....I was very excited about the improved sound and all the invaluable information I have gathered has been from this forum or from Bluesboy directly. I continue to be amazed that you can buy used or after market components, have a friend that is a master carpenter, steal other peoples ideas and have a wonderful end product for such a low price. LOL back.
Joe....Beyma tweeters for now but I wonder has anyone heard the Visaton tweeter mentioned in Stereophile review of the La Scala ll? I haven't ordered the Beymas so any imput appreciated. I don't know about the xover point other than we changed to a different tap on the BEC xover to compensate for my 8 ohm drivers. Maybe Bluesboy can shed some light on this. BEC had responded on an earlier thread about the mod needed and we did as he said. As I said earlier...I love what I am hearing!
Chuck
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I called another forum member before I responded and asked what he thought of the post by Dean since I had never known him to be negative. The reply was "I think he is serious". If he was joking as you suggest it went right over my head and my apologies to him. Thanks Marvel for your imput.[:S]
Chuck
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Speakerfritz...thanks for the encouragement. I am excited about the project and the sound so far. Will do pics later.
Chops....the bass bins are sealed and just like the 1977 klipsch factory drawings except that we are using 1" mdf like the La Scala lls.
Terry...I guess you are right... they may be ugly but the number of problems it corrects in my set up makes me happy. I think when we are finished it may look better than you think. I am a little concerned about the boxy appearance especially with the tweeter mounted on the face frame like a little box. Like you said...when the lights are off....
DeanG....I don't know what to think about your post...it caught me off guard. I really wasn't expecting the negativity...maybe I caught you on a bad day. No testing was done other than the test Bluesboy and I did with our ears and that is the important one to me. Believe me when I say that I am not trying to get anyone to believe anything about this project or the sound it produces. The modifications or "bastardized" top section as you called it is purely for my enjoyment and the statements I made are only my impressions. As for the heritage top section sounding so good...I would say that there are many on the forum who have complained about the harshness/ringing of the k-400 and many who are using Beymas and BEC's tweeter rather than the k-77. I will make a deal with you....you do your charts, curves and graphs and plot everything just so.... and I will listen to music
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Bluesboy came over last night with his 511B horns bolted to a temporary frame and we hooked them up to my Altec 902 drivers. We changed the BEC xover as suggested by Bob and wired everything up. Because I don't have room in the corners to toe in my speakers this arrangement worked out fine. I was able to hear the new components and to toe them in for the first time. What a difference! I am very pleased with the results...the horns and drivers are so much clearer as most of you already know.
The nest step is to build the bass bins and Bluesboy has already cut the parts. We have the woofers and I will be ordering Beymas. We will paint the 1" mdf with piano black lacquer and make a new frame that will let the tweeter sit on top of the 511B face frame. There will be no top cabinet. I will sit the xover under the back of the horn...so in other words everything on top of the bass bin will be exposed. I can then move the horn and tweeter as often as I like and try differents placements.
Thanks to BEC and Bluesboy!
Chuck
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By the time I change out tubes or interconnects I can't recall what the previous component sounded like ( too much time has elapsed) or what the specific difference is. I recently swapped out el-34s in my horn monos to some JJ KT-77s and thought there was an improvement but couldn't put my finger on it without putting the el-34s back. I think you need to A-B components very quickly or the change is not as pronounced. I recall psychological theories from my college days about "two point threshold" and "just noticeable difference" that tried to explain these concepts.
I just got a catalog in the mail with all these product tweaks for audio such as high dollar cables, maple blocks, cone feet, isopads, spay on electronic enhancers, line conditioners, electrical receptacles and the like and just wondered how much of it is snake oil. One claim was that getting your speaker wire off the carpet was like taking a wet blanket off your speakers. They offered a product that looked like 3 sticks with a rubber band that forms a tripod to lift your speaker wire!
I also read a cartridge review recently that stated that the Clearaudio Maestro Cartdidge($1000) was a big improvement over my Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood cartridge($800) and I thought to myself that I doubt the reviewer could pick one cartridge from the other in a blind test. But if they said this no one would be buying their new products. The illusion that there is an improvement or the possibility that there could be sells a lot of gear.
Chuck
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Thanks for the reply Bob. I will take a look at the xover and hopefully just plug and play.
Chuck
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Duke.....they are 8 ohm drivers....what are you thinking? Chuck
I'm thinking you will have to change your crossover
Duke...I am using Bob Crites AA xover...the ones on the Arkansas Cedar. So there is no way for me to try out the new horns and drivers without new xovers? If this is a dumb question please keep in mind that I know nothing about xovers. I guess I should have bought the 16 ohm drivers? Advice please.
Chuck
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George...my drivers are 902-8T, the 8 ohm. Came in yesterday from seller on ebay....nice and clean. Duke said I must change my BEC xover since they are 8 ohm drivers. Bummer! I wanted to just set them on top of the speaker to try them out. It would also seem from comments I read that the horn needs to be bolted to a frame or I may get the ringing that prompted me to abandon the original horns.
Speakerfritz...I know nothing about xovers but I don't think I can change taps on the Crite xover? I have been told to buy ALK universal but hate to spend the money just to see if the 511B is going to correct the ringing concern. Advice?
Chuck
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Thanks for those pictures George....I want to do the same with my La Scalas using the 511b and 902 Altecs and your set up would be a great way of auditioning the new horns and drivers. Glad to hear your results were so positive.
Chuck
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Subscribers are getting theirs now, I don't know about newsstands. I thought the review was just pretty good, as Tellig wandered over a lot of old territory on PWK's life while getting to the point. I was never quite sure what all the positives were, as he kept busy slaying decades-old dragons about horn sound and prattling on about the dynamics. Toward the end, he said he added a super-tweeter, the Visaton TL 16H from Germany, to get the sparkle he was missing. This altering of a manufacturer's product in a test seemed to be out of the ordinary and didn't set that well with me.
He ended up on a positive note, saying that he was keeping his La Scalas (Visaton and all?).
lc
Has anyone heard these tweeters (Visaton TL 16H)? I am in the process of building La Scalas and had been planning on using Beymas. Is his hookup to the binding post of the speaker without the xover an acceptable practice?
Chuck
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The original owner of my horn monos did a lot of tube rolling prior to selling me his amps. He assured me that you could use any tube that would fit the socket and that the amps are self biasing. He listed many of his favorites but sold me the amps with the original tubes. As stated earlier at Craig's advice I went to Dougs Tubes and talked with him about his favorites. I decided on the JJ KT-77s, a copy of the Marconi Osram tube when they were a part of GEC. I have been pleased with the results and the tubes were not expensive.
Chuck
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Duke.....they are 8 ohm drivers....what are you thinking? Chuck
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Thanks for the tip...I will look for Sfogg's thread. I plan on using ALK universals with either horn. Just noticed I have passed my 100 post so I am going to take the weekend off. I certainly don't know enough to talk that much!
Have a great weekend and I appreciate your help.
Chuck
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J.4Knee.....no I want to stay 3 way...am considering Beymas. Have you mounted the 511 in a cabinet or is it sitting on top of the speaker? Would like to see a picture if anyone has done that.
Chuck
]. As a relatively new member I appreciate the time Al took to answer all of my questions no matter how elementary they must have seemed to him. I usually considered his comments as the final word in most discussions. I hope Al will reconsider after some time has passed....but if not... all the best in the future.
Tarheel's Hybrid LaScalas
in Technical/Restorations
Posted
Phil....the Heels are looking pretty good the last few games....we may have a contender! Chuck
Back to the La Scalas....what I needed to do was have a 2 piece speaker that we could rotate the top (midrange and tweeter) to toe it in. Bluesboy already mentioned that my previous speakers were wedged in and fired staight ahead so this was our goal to correct that problem. A top section that was basically a rectangle didn't look right so we started thinking of designs that softend the edges and looked less cumbersome A bell shape with a more gentle slope was the final result. The Paduak is really a beautifull wood and we used three coats of tung oil using 0000 steel wool and tack rags between coats. Early Sunday morning we met at Don"s shop and finished assembly .....I wanted to get the new speakers installed in my music room before my wife got home and realized that Don and I had built a second set of LS in 2 years! I had not got around to telling her about our project other than we were making a few changes to my existing speakers. She came home just as we finished hooking everything up. She loved them!. She liked the looks and the sound so I put on one of her Andre Bocelli cds for her first listen. Don and I had already listened to Sonny Rollins "Saxaphone Colossus" a favorite of mine for our audition. What can I tell you about the sound other than I was grinning ear to ear. What an amazing improvement. First the bass was much better either from the woofer change or the 1" mdf or both. The 511b horn/902 drivers are so clear and the Beymas added the sparkle I had not heard before.
I enjoyed this build and I loved the finished product. Bluesboy is very meticulous and does beautifull work. I handled some of the unskilled sanding, painting and finishing work but Don is the cabinet and speaker builder and really enjoys his work. I think I am finally done with the speaker tinkering but then again I said that last time.
BTW my 2005 LS clones are still for sale with or without xovers.
Chuck