TimBo
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Posts posted by TimBo
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I forgot to add that I do have the Denon original remote with new rechargeable batteries and that it still works. The Harmony One adds a lot of the functions of the original remote to the Harmony One LCD screen. Options such as the playback modes, Stereo, Dolby, etc. and input options along with many more. But there is no option for the OSD and/or setup options that need to be set in the OSD without the original remote that I can find.
TimBo
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Wow, nice setup!
I use an old Logitech Harmony One with an IR repeater/extender to control the system. I actually have 3 of these remotes now that they are discontinued and the options from other manufactures is slim.
I had to do something to be able to have all the equipment, including a HTPC, usable for the wife. I have a Logitech K830 keyboard for the HTPC. Otherwise, I'd be listening to everything through the TV speakers
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23 minutes ago, tigerwoodKhorns said:
@TimBo 170 WPC. Are you using a Denon AVR5800?
Yes,, I have a Denon AVR-5803 that I did some horse trading to acquire. The T-5000s love power and the Denon delivers. The Denon sound may be a contributor to the midrange being slightly more pronounced. I have not had the opportunity to try other receivers/amps but from what I've read about this unit the midrange is slightly elevated.
I did purchase a miniDSP mic and when I have more free time this summer I'll try and learn how to use REW to do some measuring of the system. Plus I have KG-2.5s for my surrounds and a SVS SB-3000 for the 40hz and lower. I bought the mic to be able to better adjust the sub and surround. The added benefit will be to measure the actual playback from the T-5000s with the mods.
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Don't forget to add the butyl to the woofer and passive baskets. I think adding it to the woofer was one of the things that helped tame the midrange.
Also, be careful when adding closed cell foam such as the yoga mat. Closed cell foam will subtract from the cabinet volume. The bracing is already a subtraction and adding any more materials, such as the closed cell foam, may not be the best move.
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And Got Horns is right. There is the cost of building the cabinets and the fact that I would need a woodshop to build them in. I do not have access to a wood workshop at the present time. If I did have access to the equipment, I would have certainly built new cabinets.
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2 hours ago, OO1 said:
what was wrong with the klipsch woofers , and the midrange diaphragms
One of the original woofers had bottomed out several times due to the air leaks from stripped screws, loose panels, and broken gaskets. The cabinet being sealed actually damps the woofer against the passive radiator when played at very high volumes. The Denon I have will send 170 watts @ 20 - 20k with less than 1% distortion and I like it at reference level. That power level was enough to push the woofer to the bottom with the air leaks. The midranges are 30 years old and since I had already replaced everything with fresh drivers, I simply wanted it all to be fresh and not look back later wishing I had replaced them.
TimBo
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19 hours ago, Got_Horns said:
Curious to what benefits you noticed from your efforts?
The biggest difference was two things. The midrange was not as harsh which allowed the tweeter to actually be heard and the bass is tighter. The bass is not as loud due to the "boom/roar" not being produced by the cabinets. I spent some time in bands and working with others in music and know the sound of a bass kick drum very well. The bass drum before the changes was what I call a boom and is now a thud sound, which it should be.
TimBo
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I considered the options of MLV and commercial vinyl tile but ended up going with the butyl due to its mass with an easy and permanent installation. I did use Kilz oil-based primer inside so the butyl would have a nonporous surface to adhere to. From what I've read of MLV, it works best if hung with an air gap. I guess any mass would help and would be a good option. As for multi layers, the acoustic foam I used has a solid film on the adhesive side that does add to the layering. But, as you said, more layers are always better. It's a fun project and is a lot more work than I had anticipated. The end result is rewarding.
The last thing I will try is to add one piece the original foam, mounted loosely which will be curved from side to side and above the tweeter.
I know most say Klipsch speakers are bright but my experience with these is that the midrange was somewhat harsh and buried the tweeter. That harshness has been reeled in a great degree.
I'm hoping that by adding the foam above the tweeter will help even more. Plus, it will aid in reducing standing waves a little more. The better option may be to add 1/2" wool felt instead of the original foam across the upper sides and top, but trying to buy high grade F11 felt in small orders is not the most cost-effective option.
Thank you.
TimBo
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My room. 15' x 17.5'
Yes, I know the furniture is not in the best position. You tell her to move it,,, lol
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I finally installed the braces and had a first A/B listen to the changes.
You can notice a lower output in bass BUT, BUT, that is only because the "roar" is no longer being produced by the cabinets.
I prefer the new sound. It's much more balanced and the bass is much, much, more accurate.
I would describe the playback with the changes as more life like, especially the bass drum and bass guitar.
A good test for me was Michel Jackson's BAD album, Speed Demon and Liberian Girl are now clear and precise on the bass.
For the wife, her descriptive words were that it's more articulate and clear. Her youth was spent listening to very early rap and the boom sound is "normal" for her. What she did notice is, in her words, the loud voices no longer buried the cymbals.
I'll take this as a win and move forward to add these changes to the remaining speaker.
Here are pics of the added bracing.
TimBo
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From the factory the speaker had two pieces of foam. Each piece was non-adhesive and were simply standing loose on the left and right of the cabinet.
I'll replace them with the new S/A foam.
Should I also add the S/A foam to the rear panel?
TimBo
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Hello all,
I got lucky 17 years ago and picked up a working set of T-5000's from the auction site for $105 and after an 8 hour round trip drive, they have sat and played beautifully in my living room.
I had a crossover fail 3 years ago and once I found Bob Crites website, thanks to this forum, it put me on the path of upgrades and improvements.
I have enjoyed them thus far and every recommendation made from this forum to use Bob Crites parts have made a huge improvement. But there was always the "roar" that came from the thin boxes, 3/4" soundboard and 5/8" sides and rear panels, that I just could not overlook any longer. I am in the process of refurbishing and/or rebuilding them to, hopefully, help them reproduce a cleaner sound at high volume playback.
Here is what I purchased and have been listening to prior to the cabinet modifications I'm now in process of making.
Bob Crites T-5000 crossovers, now called "Gold"
Bob Crites CD76TiM Titanium Tweeter Diaphragms
Bob Crites CW1230 Woofers
New midrange Diaphragms.
At the time of the early fixes, I also added 80 mil butyl sound damping to the horns.
What I've done to only one of the cabinets as of today.
Added t-nuts to all screw holes. Many threaded holes were so close to the speaker hole that the wood was beginning to give way.
Used thinned white glue in all seams and then used hot glue over all seams to ensure air tightness.
Installed 80 mil butyl sound damping sheets to the inside of the sides and rear panels.
Made all new gaskets.
Added butyl rubber sound damping to the basket of the woofers and passive radiators.
Preparing to add 3/4" dowel rod bracing by using countersunk flathead screws from the outside to secure the braces. I didn't want to flex the thin walls and risk separating the panels by using a friction fit and glue. I actually have cut the braces 1/32" short to add the same effect but with the force pushing in instead of out.
I'll be replacing the foam with self-adhesive acoustic foam, and this is where I have questions.
How much should I add and where?
Thanks for all the previous input and any further assistance.
TimBo
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And, yes, the sides are the same as the rear. 5/8.
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I'll document the rebuild with pictures and the changes made in a different forum post.
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On 2/14/2023 at 5:36 AM, OO1 said:
can you please measure the thickness of the wood panels , I'm curious to know if these are 5/8 " thick
Here are the front and rear panel thicknesses. I'll add the side panel thickness in the near future. If I was a betting man, I'd wager the sides will be the same as the rear.
The front panel is .766 (3/4) or 19.5mm
The rear is .644 (5/8) or 16.5mm
TimBo
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I certainly will post the wall thickness as soon as I have the speakers disassembled. I will be drilling holes and using screws and glue to mount the braces. That will give me the opportunity to get an accurate measure of the side wall thickness.
It may be a few days while I build a set of 45-degree sawhorses and get all the joints sealed before I can get back to you.
TimBo
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On 3/29/2021 at 6:10 PM, ummagumma-89 said:
Absolutely Moray, I had thought of separating the woofer area from the mids and highs with a piece of foam, similar to how the heresy 2 came. I figure it would help divide up the cabinet and produce more pressure to the rad.
Took me a year to finish a kitchen remodel and I'm starting the T-5000 cabinet bracing, t-nuts, gaskets, and new foam damping later this week. I tried what ummagumma-89 mentioned with the foam by removing the mid, grabbing one of the original side pieces of foam and pulling it up and around the woofer. I was careful not to allow it to touch the woofer cone.
I am impressed with the result. The bass drum now has impact and the boom (roar) is gone. I'll be adding this as I rebuild the cabinet. And yes, I know I may hear from Moray so let me say now that if I'm wrong, I'll remove the foam later. But I like what I'm hearing.
I wanted to let everyone know that I did find a hot glue for the melamine to wood bond.
"Steinel GF 213 Laminate Glue Stick, designed specifically for bonding laminates, 1/2 x 12" long sticks for most standard glue guns, bag with 15 Sticks, formulated to work best on laminated surfaces, countertops and melamine."
That is what I'll be using to reseal the joints and to add the braces.
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52 minutes ago, absolve2525 said:
I don't think the midranges on these ever had ferrofluid. I've never seen it in any Klipsch home midrange compression drivers. Tweeters yes, midrange no. Cool speakers! Sounds like a fun project.
You may be correct as this is all I have found which states the addition of the ferrofluid.
Tangent 1000 series.pdf (d2um2qdswy1tb0.cloudfront.net)
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3 minutes ago, RandyH001 said:
+/- .0005 tolerances. that's extremely humble as far as quality control --
Haha,, yep. It's one of the reasons when I'm working with wood and I'm off 1/32 it drives me nuts. Kinda goes against the grain.
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I agree that the primary purpose of the fluid is for voice coil cooling by adding a thermal transfer interface between the coil and the motor. I've also seen test results of before and after the addition of the fluid which do show there are subtle changes to the speaker response curve. But, as I said, I agree the heat issue is primary and will use it for that reason as well since I'm pushing these pretty hard with the Avr-5803.
I have around 100 hours on these since I replaced all the parts and much of that has been at reference level volume. At that level is where I'm noticing the cabinet resonance is pronounced and why I'm prepared to add the braces. Because the cabinets are so thin I would actually use countersunk screws and glue to fix the braces to the cabinet walls and that would be hard to reverse. That's why I'm so concerned if adding the braces as I've proposed is a good idea. If only I had a real wood workshop......
P.S. Machinist by trade and much of that spent working within +/- .0005 tolerances.
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11 minutes ago, RandyH001 said:
Ferrofluid can be added , but the Crites titanium diaphragms are not designed for adding ferro fluid , whereas the klipsch OE midrange diapghragms can be used with or without ferro-fluid---
Thank you for the quick response on the ferrofluid. Seeing that the original brochures state that the T-5000's had the added ferrofluid, I will most likely add it, but to the midrange only. I understand that the ferrofluid can help "smooth" the speaker response and these midranges seem to be a tiny bit "up front" without it.
TimBo
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On 3/29/2021 at 7:39 AM, moray james said:
well if what you want to do is to catch the out of band woofer response which is a good idea then you could place a 3/4" piece of open cell foam on the bottom of the cabinet on the sides from the bottom to about 4I past the top of the woofer and on the back from the bottom up to the same height as on the sides. You might experiment with a piece to cover the top to see if that helps. The horn body and motor will act as a diffusor up in the top of the cabinet which is a good thing (so will any installed brace work). This is a good experiment for you and will help to educated your ear. You can't do anything which will cause a problem to the loudspeaker and you can back track any change that you make back to where ever you liked the sound best. Don't obscure a passive or a vent with damping or put any damping into a vent tube. You can experiment with this to learn just what it dose there is no harm other than to decrease the performance of the passive or vent. If any of your woofer or passive mounting screw holes get loose (won't tighten up) all you have to do is to get some of the flat softwood tooth picks and some white wood glue. fill the loose screw hole with white wood glue and stuff in a tooth pick or two both pre wet with glue into the screw holes let set 15 minutes then trim off any part of the then tooth pick sticking out of the hole. The screw will easily compress the wood of the tooth pick into the compressed mdf or plywood of the cabinet and the glue will soak into the surrounding wood firming it up. The glue will not bond to the screw and will be easy to remove later. Hope this helps. Happy experimenting.
I also have a set of T-5000's and finally finished with the "working parts. Here is what I have completed, Crites titanium tweeter diaphragms, OE midrange diaphragms, Crites CW1230 woofers, and new Crites crossovers built for the T-5000 and added Dynamat to the outside of the horns. First thing I noticed is that my set had never been opened before and yet there was no ferrofluid in the tweeters or midrange speakers. I double checked the model number on the rear sticker and original part numbers on the individual parts and they all add up to these being T-5000's not T-500's. I thought that was a little strange.
I am at the stage of patching/repairing the cabinets and was considering adding some 1 inch dowel rod braces to the cabinets. 2 from front to rear between the passive and woofer. 2 from front to rear between the woofer and mid. I would also add at least 2 from side to side that would be linked to the 2 pair that run front to rear. And of course adding the 3/4 acoustic foam as appropriate.
So that brings me to ask two questions.
1. You mentioned "diffusor up in the top of the cabinet which is a good thing (so will any installed brace work)". Would what I'm proposing as additional bracing also be a "good thing" with these P.R. boxes?
2. Should I add the ferrofluid to the diaphragms?
P.S. I am running these on a Denon AVR-5803 170 w/ch receiver.
Thank TimBo
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BTW, The '80s rock ROCKS on the T-5000s @ +3 on the Yamaha HTR-5740 set to Direct Stereo [
]Huh? Did you say something? I see your lips moving. [
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Tangent T-5000 Refurbish/Rebuild
in Technical/Restorations
Posted · Edited by TimBo
True,, they are NOT user friendly in any sense of the word. But the original base will recharge the standard rechargeable batteries and save the constant buying of batteries. You do not need a separate charger for the batteries when using that base. I have purchased only one set of rechargeable AAs since I traded for the unit 6 years ago and the remotes base keeps it charged and ready.
I bought my last Harmony One from eBay. It was "same as new" with the exception of the battery. I buy the batteries for it from Amazon.
TimBo