Johnny Canuck

Hi there: I have a 3000 cubic volume listening room and am about 10 feet away from my TV (and subwoofer area). As well,I have only one listening location, so am not concerned with bass response throughout the entire room. I have 1 question: Should I go for a Single RT-12d or a Dual RSW-10d subwoofer setup Here are determining factors: a. I work for a Klipch reseller and can get a decent discount on Klipsch subwoofers. b. I can't consider a KW-120-THX for various reasons. c. My receiver has"Audyssey MultEQ XT" calibration/mic system, the Integra DTR-7.8 Receiver http://www.integrahometheater.com/model.cfm?m=DTR-7.8&class=Receiver&p=f d. Not sure if (based on my above receiver) the calibration MIC that comes with a single RT-12d will be useful since my receiver has calibration/mic system (is this redundant for my subwoofer calibration? e. My 7.1 speaker setup will consist of: RF-63 fronts, RC-64 center, and RS62 surrounds, RB61 rear back surrounds. Thank you. JC

6 weeks until d-day huh? Make sure you make an agreement BEFOREHAND on the fact that when you are married you will be allowed to upgrade your toys every so often ... if she says no by the toys now!

Bryston huh! Hey let us know how the speakers sound with it when you get it!

I currently have a fine Pioneer Elite receiver, but it only supports 5.1 and since I wanted a 7.1 setup I wanted to upgrade. The 3806 Denon sells for $1000 at Costco.com and hell, at $1000 I am more than willing to upgrade the controller every 3-5 years. My concern was that a integrated receiver (like the 3806) might have sound audio disadvantage over a seperate controller and hence my concern...

I meant figurately and not literally so people who were interested in the thread would post at this link instead: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/827908/ShowThread.aspx#827908

Ya sounds like I will need to break in the speakers for a bit, and at 10 feet away I am pushing the boundaries of how close the RF83 speakers should be to me, however since they have a little better clarity then the RF-63 they are the one's to get. However xdetroitx I can't help thinking that since your YAmaha amp only offers 110 RMS, you are still missing a bit in terms of sound. For peeks, say like when the dinosaur yells in Jurrasic Park, wouldn't your receiver lack a little bit of juice to supply the very highest peaks in sound? (Hence the need for a seperate amplifier?)

In terms of the quality of audio output, does a seperate a/v receiver (like the pioneer elite you mention, or say the Denon 3806 or Onkyo 804) offer similar audio quality to some of the preamp processors out there or do I lose out on something by going with the integrated audiovideo receivers by Pioneer, Denon, and Onkyo vs. a preamp processor?

Outlaw doesn't have a product that fufills all of my criteria however I was wondering if the Denon 3806 or Onkyo 804 is a suitable controller (since they cost around as much as say Outlaw's seperate controller) and work those with a seperate amplifier or should I always go with the seperate controller instead of integrated receiver option (due to better audio out or some other reason... Anyways, as per tiger's advice I'll move this thread to: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/827908/ShowThread.aspx#827908 so this thread is CLOSED!

I am planning to buy an Earthquake Cinénova Grande 7-Channel amplifier http://www.earthquakesound.com/cng_7.htm or a similar stand-alone amplifier for my Klipsch reference system I will be purhasing: http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/rf-83-home-theater-system.aspx (RF-83 Floorstanders, RC-64 Center, RS-62 Surrounds, and JL Audio F113 subwoofer). Now I am wondering which controller/preamp/processor to buy to match up with something like the Earthquake Cinenova amplifier and my Klipsch reference speakers. I do not need video switching but I do need support for 7.1 speakers and important standard features such as: -4 Optical, 2 Coaxial (all assignable) digital inputs -24-bit/96-kHz and 24-bit/192-kHz Digital Input Capability -DTS 96/24 -Dolby ProLogic IIx -Dolby Digital Surround EX Decoding -Digital Soundfield Processing Modes -Late Night Mode -Crossover Adjustment -Headphone Jack (Dolby Headphone preferred) -OPTIONAL: auto-setup/room equalization functions Now should I buy a separate ontroller/preamp/processor or will a separate audio-video receiver like the Denon AVR-3806: http://ca.denon.com/ProductDetails/623.asp or Onkyo TX-SR804 suffice: http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=TX-SR804&class=Receiver&p=i or some similar audio/video receiver. Basically, I am trying to figure out what is the best option, getting a separate controller/preamp/Processor or a audio-video receiver to go with a Earthquake Cinénova Grande 7-Channel amplifier and which product one would recommend based on the amplifier and speakers I am running... [since HDMI 1.3 will be important in the future and I will therefore have to upgrade the controller or receiver in the near future, I only want to invest in a controller or receiver that matches my equipments capabilities (speakers and amp) that I am running and one where I am not paying for capabilities and features I cannot use or need... I also figured integrated A/V receivers our easier to sell in the buy and sell then dedicated controllers thus making it easier to upgrade...] Thanks.

Hmm the problem I have is that I can't really take these things home then audition them, I have to listen to them in the show room. My room is 13 X 26 (8 feet high) but I will be only 9 feet away from the speakers .... hmm dunno am going to have to stew over that one...

text deleted.

Hmm I went and searched a bunch of posts in the forums having to do with RF63 and RF83. (a number of the messages included posts from Raider and DrWho). Seems the RF63 is the sucessor to RF5's, and RF83 successor to RF7 (and RF75's) and differences among them are not unlike the predacessor's, so seems like RF83 is the way to go... Thanks guys, I geuss this thread is CLOSED?!?

Whoops forgot to ask one last thing, which bookshelfs are the closest acoustic match to RF83: RB81 or RB61? Odd that neither of them seems like the RB75... I want to possibly pickup 2 more speakers (for the rear surrounds) to make my system 7.1... Thanks

Hmm I went and searched a bunch of posts in the forums having to do with RF63 and RF83. (a number of the messages included posts from Raider and DrWho). Seems the RF63 is the sucessor to RF5's, and RF83 successor to RF7 (and RF75's) and differences among them are not unlike the predacessor's, so seems like RF83 is the way to go... Thanks guys.

Ok so what you are saying is that, in consideration to performance, the RF63 in no way offers any better sound (in the low, mids, or high frequences) than the RF83?

I heard it suggested that the smaller drivers on the RF63 give it better sounds in the mids and highs, while the RF83 has better low-end, however, for those of us using mostly material with .1 subwoofer sound tracks (And utilizing a good sub) the RF63 paired with a good sub would provide better all-around sound... (whereas people not running a sub would want to use the RF83's) and I am just trying to verify that point... thats not really true.... which part of it ... could you explain please Jay? Thanks.

I heard it suggested that the smaller drivers on the RF63 give it better sounds in the mids and highs, while the RF83 has better low-end, however, for those of us using mostly material with .1 subwoofer sound tracks (And utilizing a good sub) the RF63 paired with a good sub would provide better all-around sound... (whereas people not running a sub would want to use the RF83's) and I am just trying to verify that point...

Thanks DrWho for clarifying that. As for the 63 vs. 83 I can't find a place that has them both on display so I can compare them in the most accurate manner, that is why I am hoping that a Klipsch insider or someone who has heard them both can comment on the 2 units... They both are priced similar but have different specs, etc. suggesting they were engineered slightly different for a purpose and that's why I was wondering if anybody knew the differences between them so I could make a decision as to which speaker is more suitable for my purpose... Thanks

Raider THANK YOU for your informative reply. I can't find a JL Audio F113 around my place, let alone have it and the RT-12D side-by-side for comparison so I have to rely on people like you for information. It seems that the consensus opinion is that the F113 is the best sub for $3000 and under, but that doesn't neccessarily mean it is the sub everyone needs. Raider, your info made it clear that while the RT-12D is a better "bang for the buck" I think in my case, because I am putting in around $15,000 worth of speakers and amps into this setup that the extra $1000 or so on the F113 is worth in order to get that extra little bit out of my system in the low end (where I would prefer to have a little better clarity/articulation) Hopefully other prospective RT-12D and JL Audio F113 will find this thread useful... Thanks to everyone for sharing your advice and thoughts.

They both are priced similar but have different specs, etc. suggesting they were engineered slightly different for a purpose and that's why I was wondering if anybody knew the differences between them so I could make a decision as to which speaker is more suitable for my purpose... Thanks

Unfortunately I couldn't find a place near me that had both the RF-63 and RF-83 on display so I could compare. I was hoping though that perhaps one of the Klipsch personnel on here (or someone with insider knowledge) got the skinny on the difference between the 2 models and could advise me... Thanks

Hi, I am trying to decide between the RF83 and RF63 to be my front channel (left/right speakers) in a 5.1 speaker system I am putting together. I was wondering if anybody could tell me the differences between the 2 and suggest what I should use based on my setup and requirements below: (Specs wise, the RF83 seems to be better but someone mentioned that isn't neccessary so in all applications.) Here are some particulars of my setup: -------------------------------------------------- My living room size is 3000 cubic feet (ceiling is 8 feet high). The listening position (e.g. my ears on the couch) will be 10 feet away from the front speakers. The room is 13 feet wide. *****Listening preferences: I RARELY listen to music on CDs. I occasionally listen to music on satellite/digital cable but the primary use of my system will be for High definition movies , Xbox 360 or Playstation 3 gaming and some high definition television programs so the vast majority of my sources will NOT be 2 channel stereo sources but rather 5.1 sources. My sound preferences seem to be geared towards warmer more natural sounding speakers. I dont care for loud-thumping unnatural (and muddied) base, I prefer clear base and warm (not bright) sound. I will be hooking up either the Klipsch RT-12D subwoofer or JL Audio F113 subwoofer so the RF83 or RF63 I buy will only be running frequencies above 60hz to 80hz (depending on the crossover I use) since I will be pretty much exclusively using sources with a .1 subwoofer track (via DVD, Xbox360, HD-DVD, etc.). I will also be buying the RC-64 center channel... Thanks! JC -------------------------------------------------- RF-83 Specifications http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/rf-83.aspx#specifications frequency response 29Hz-21kHz +/-3dB power handling 250W RMS / 1000W Peak sensitivity 100dB @ 2.83V / 1m nominal impedance 8 ohms compatible high frequency drivers 1.25" (3.2cm) Titanium diaphragm compression driver mated to 90x60 square Tractrix® Horn high freq crossover 1650Hz low frequency drivers Triple 8" (20.3cm) High-output Cerametallic cone woofers enclosure type Bass-reflex via triple rear-firing ports height 49.6" (126cm) (w/feet) width 9.25" (23.5cm) depth 20.5" (52.1cm) weight 100lbs (45.4kg) RF-63 Specifications http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/rf-63.aspx#specifications frequency response 30Hz-21kHz +/-3dB power handling 175W RMS / 700W Peak sensitivity 99dB @ 2.83V / 1m nominal impedance 8 ohms compatible high frequency drivers 1.25" (3.2cm) Titanium diaphragm compression driver mated to 90x60 square Tractrix® Horn high freq crossover 1700Hz low frequency drivers Triple 6.5" (16.5cm) High-output Cerametallic cone woofers enclosure type Bass-reflex via triple rear-firing ports height 46.1" (117.1cm) (w/feet) width 8.5" (21.6cm) depth 19.5" (49.5cm) weight 81lbs (36.8kg)

Hi, I was just wondering if anybody here managed to hear both the Klipsch RT-12d vs. JL Audio Fathom f113 Subwoofer and what their thoughts and both models were? I am buying some Klipsch Reference line speakers (RC64, RF83/63 and RS62's) and am looking for a subwoofer for my setup. My budget for the subwoofer is up to $3000 US so I could just afford the JL Audio Fathom 13" subwoofer but am trying to decide between that, the Klipsch RT-12D (Which I can get for a smoking price) and some other brand like Velodyne, etc. For the subwoofer, I know subwoofers dont need to be matched (e.g. the same brand) to the other 5 speakers, so I dont mind which brand I buy and any sub 18 inches (woofer diameter) or less I have room for, the only thing I want the sub to include would be: -a Digital user-interface (for adjusting equalizer modes and listening preferences) -calibration microphone (for optimizing placement of sub and equalizer levels) I can get a really good price on the RT-12D but a lot of people are talking about the $3200 US JL Audio Fathom f113 being the best woofer out there (for about $800 more than the Klipsch model) so that is why I am curious about comparisons... -------------------------------------------------- *****My subwoofer needs: I RARELY listen to music on CDs. I occasionally listen to music on satellite/digital cable but the primary use of my system will be for High definition movies , Xbox 360 or Playstation 3 gaming and some high definition television programs so the vast majority of my sources will NOT be 2 channel stereo sources but rather 5.1 sources. My sound preferences seem to be geared towards warmer more natural sounding speakers. I dont care for loud-thumping unnatural (and muddied) base, I prefer clear base and warm (not bright) sound. My living room size is 2933 cubic feet (ceiling is 8 feet high). [Lastly, there are 2 doorways (With sliding doors) leading into the room that I can't control so while the room volume is just under 3000 cubic feet I know that the bass situation isn't ideal since the room isn't sealed...] Thanks

So am I to understand that bass and the lower octaves aside, the RF63 will sound better than the RF83? (So for people like me running mostly 5.1 sources and employing a RT12D or better subwoofer with a crossover of at least 60hz, perhaps 80hz). Also, I know timbre matching is important with front speakers, but I didn't realize it was evident with woofers... Thanks for all the info (including surround sound placement). I am taking 2 seperate points to seperate threads (since I think the answers to these other threads and the talking points discussed will be of use to other people as well): -------------------------------------------------- Klipsch RT-12d vs. JL Audio Fathom f113 Subwoofer http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/825995/ShowThread.aspx#825995 Klipsch RF-83 vs. RF-63 differences and suggestions? http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/ShowThread.aspx?PostID=825997#825997 -------------------------------------------------- Guys, I geuss I will say this thread is closed now. I want to thank everyone who shared their information and advice... JC

You are right, after some demo's/testing I will still go with the Klipsch reference line. I WILL get the # RC-64 Center but need some advice on the fronts and rears: [for the subwoofer I am trying to decide between JL-Audio and the RT-12D but I'll take that inquiry into a different thread). 1) I can't decide between the #RF-83 and #RF-63, any thought/suggestions on the differences between the two (Especially based on my room layout and requirements?) 2) Trying to decide between the #RS-62 Surrounds and one of the bookshelfs based on how I am placing the speakers what do you guys think I should use? [i can't place my side surround speakers (for 5.1 setup) further back then where they are on the diagram. HOWEVER, at some point in the near future I may be able to add 2 surround back speakers to the very back at the room pointing forward (north) towards the TV set...] S1 is the first surround sound location possibility (which is 2 feet behind the couch) and S2 is the second surround location possibility (which would have the center-point of the surround speaker pointing approximately above my knee while sitting down rather than my ear. Unfortunately it isn't possible to mount the speaker to point directly above my ears). Any suggestions as to which of the 2 location (S1 or S2) is better for my surround speaker placements and if I should use the RS-62's or one of the bookshelfs for the rear placements? Not sure if this is helpful at all, but this is a mockup of my living room: =============== =.............................= =.............................= =...S.......T.V.......S...= =.............S..............= =.............................= =.............................= =.............................= =.............................= =.............................= =.............................= =.............................= =S2->.................<-S2= =..........C-C-C..........= =S1->.................<-S1= =.............................= =.............................= =.............................= =.............................= =.............................= =.............................= =.............................= =.............................= =.............................= =============== Legend: Length = 26 feet 10 inches Width = 13 feet 8 inches Height = 8 feet = 2933 Square Feet (total room volume) C = Couch TV = TV S = Speakers