Raider
-
Posts
232 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Forums
Events
Gallery
Posts posted by Raider
-
-
There are some carriers that specialize in transportation of electronics and high-value items. Most folks and businesses would be willing to pay extra to insure that there was no damage and/or would be willing to wait a few extra days for slower transport by dedicated truck. But these carriers can be hard to find.
It would seem to me that there is a clear opportunity for dedicated carriers to carve out a pretty good niche for themselves with as much activity as there is in these markets.
As far as UPS/FedEx damage is concerned, I think it often traces back to individual centers and how well they are run, or to specific individuals who don't care or are malicious. Many folks seem to have very good luck consistently, while others seem to have consistently bad luck, so you look for the common denominator.
I work in telecommunications and we ship very expensive electronic equipment with carriers. Some of our vendors have started attaching devices to their containers that give a visual indication if the package has been subjected to g-force beyond a threshold level. The carrier acknowledges the condition of the device when they pick up the package. The receiving party then rejects receipt of the shipment if such an indicator is present when received, with the carrier held responsible. Seems like a good protocol to use for high end gear.
-
Both the JL Audio Fathom and the Klipsch RT12d are featured in the Test Bench section of the November 2006 edition of Sound&Vision Online.
The JL Fathom is a stand-alone test:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/speakers/1853/test-bench-jl-audio-fathom-f112-subwoofer.html
The Klipsch RT12d is part of a test of the RF83 HT system:
Interesting data for comparison.
(For those who might not know, Tom Nousaine has been testing car audio subs for many years, and is well respected for his objective testing and comprehensive knowledge of subwoofers. He is much more an objectivist than a subjectivist, but after extensive testing can offer good insight into how the testing translates into what you can expect to hear.)
-
I ran across this Test Bench report on the Sound&Vision Online site, by Tom Nousaine. Interesting data on several speakers in the Klipsch line.
-
Congrats wuzzzer! I understand what you are saying; I am a little over halfway to my weight goal. I have one word for what you have accomplished.
Respect.
-
Vintage, classic BS buttons would be nice.
-
I am close to purchasing a Klipsch system for HT and serious listening as well, because a dealer here has offered some pretty incredible values to me. I am of the philosophy that any speaker should reproduce the signal exactly as it is received with no coloration, neither adding nor subtracting anything from the signal. Ideally I think that it shouldn't matter whether the sub is used for music or HT if it accurately represents the signal input to it. Generally though, most subs trade off musical fidelity for visceral impact or vice versa. While it would be great to find a sub that was equally adept at both, this seems to be elusive.
Its great to consider subs that are at the leading edge of the envelope for performance and output at the lowest, even subsonic frequencies. But after I have carefully evaluated how I will actually use the sub, I conclude that the majority of my listening time for either HT of music is at moderate or average sound pressure levels. Also, I sometimes watch TV late at night after the family is asleep. I am very protective of my hearing, and always have been after a good friend in college educated me on the relationship between SPL and hearing loss-especially as a function of time. So while its great to push the envelope and enjoy the visceral pleasure of loud music or a good action/adventure movie, this is only a relatively small part (10%) of my overall listening.
Given my actual listening priorities, absolute accuracy and articulation is primarily important. I find that I never tire of these attributes at any listening level. On the other hand I quickly tire of muddy or boomy bass response, no matter how loud it might be. The same definition, delineation and precision that are often appreciated in the midrange is the goal that I have for bass reproduction. I do like to listen loud at times, but I find that opportunity to do so is not nearly as often as for moderate-to-loud levels.
So my search is for the most articulate sub I can find. I will be using towers for my mains and surrounds (likely RF82's all around with RC62 center) so their solid bass response will only need to be supplemented in the lowest octave.
There are three subs that I have heard that I have been particularly impressed with: the RT12d, and Martin Logan Dynamo (10") and Abyss (12"). I find the Dynamo to be incredibly good for a ten, and it would be outstanding in a small space or apartment. But I wonder if it will have adequate output for the occasional high-output use. The Abyss has essentially the same sonic signature as the Dynamo, but with substantially more output. However, the price of this unit approaches what I can buy the RT10d for, and lacks the ARC. I have not had opportunity at any local dealer to hear the RT10d however
to know how it compares to the ML alternatives, which have very, very good articulation. I have heard the RT12d, and there was basically nothing that I look for in a sub that this unit lacked. However, the price of admission is a stretch for sure, and I am not sure if I need the additional output, given my actual listening preferences.So if anyone has experience with these units, or knows or any other subs that I should consider, I would appreciate hearing your input.
Especially helpful would be anyone who could compare the ML offerings to the Klipsch alternatives.
Or anyone who could compare the RT10d which I haven't heard (and might have to buy without hearing) to the RT12d.
Thanks for any feedback or opinions.
-
Got it. Thanks MAS. I'll try to get with you this weekend, been kinda busy.
-
Hmmm. I don't think this is DrWho's first rodeo.
-
Having been involved with high end car audio for many years, I have watched JL Audio grow from a cottage operation to arguably the standard bearer for car audio sub woofers. Absolutely class operation. They have developed a strong and loyal following by consistently offering a great product at a variety of price points, and have always pushed the envelope in product development and introduction of new technology. Their QC is some of the best in the industry, something that most other lines have had trouble with through the years dependent on the build houses used. They have also grown by offering consistently excellent dealer support, which in turn assures excellent customer support. Their growth through the years has been measured and carefully planned, in an industry characterized by high turnover and high mortality. Manville Smith with JL is well know for his support of their product and his support of the industry as well. They have always provided detailed information to dealers and consumers alike to allow enclosures to be built, usually custom in car audio, which would optimize the driver for its intended use. JL is a brand that generally either people like or they don't; pretty polarizing. But most people that don't like the product at least respect it. It is often the product to which others are compared. So JL brings a momentum and quality, both in product and operation that will quickly establish itself with Klipsch and others in the upper eschaleon of home audio.
-
Wow. This thread sure took a different tack than I expected.
I thought I was asking what time it was, and found out how the watch works instead.
After carefully reading the posts I have concluded that:
1) No one really knows, or
2) If they know they may not be able to explain it, or
3) If they can explain it, it will be with terms that I probably won't understand either.
Having said that . Let me take a stab at what I think I know (or maybe not) so far:
In an ideal world, all frequencies from a speaker would arrive at the listener at the same time, with the same phase relationships as when they left the speaker. Group delay is when some portion of the frequency spectrum arrives later, or is percieved to arrive later due to a change in phase relationship from the original signal. This may be due to:
1) Spacing and location of drivers in multi-way systems.
2) Reflected signal that interferes with the primary signal.
3) Selective absorption of part of the signal spectrum.
4) Phase relationship changed by electrical crossover selection.
5) Phase relationship changed by mechanical influences, especially by the enclosure, or mechanical characteristics of the drivers themselves.
6) Phase relationship changed by other components in the signal path.
Any group delay issues introduced by the above are minimal, in terms of actual perception, as compared to acoustic issues in the room which are many, many times more influential. This is evidenced by the study that showed headphones were needed often to perceive the phenomenon, which would remove room acoustics from consideration. The brilliance in the design of the ear and brain, and its ability to interpret and interpolate acoustic information cannot be overstated.
I started the thread after seeing the term "group delay" mentioned several times. I thought it would be more easily concisely defined, as some acoustic terms are. Given the complexity which has since evolved, it is apparent to me that there are too many interdependent variables for this to be the case.
Thanks for your contributions here, nevertheless, as each added another layer of understanding.
I agree with MAS that energies are better applied in a more systematic study, such as what is already in progress in the "Large Room/Small Room" thread in the Architectural section of the forum.
See you there.
-
Gee MAS I didn't mean to make this an aerobic activity.
I initially didn't pick up from yours and Doc's comments that the main reason for the left to right ridge orientation was actually due to the open stairwell on the side, rather than the reflection issues off the ceiling.
I have carefully read Ethan Winer's material which I found to be a useful introduction to the various acoustic principles. Based on that reading I had already planned to try to incorporate diffusion where possible. I am also trying to design a panel that would combine absorption and diffusion. The trick is to find a visual aesthetic that will integrate with traditional architectural elements.
It would seem to me that for my particular situation that floorstanders in each corner of the room in a 5.1 setup might allow better control of dispersion and reflection, and also allow more miinute adjustment later on, than wall mounted surrounds might.
I am located in Nashville ,TN by the way.
I am working through the large/small thread, though I haven't interacted. Right thing at the right time for me. I plan to use this family/bonus/ht room to explore acoustics, while maintaining full functionality of the room, which I am finding to be a considerable form/function design challenge.
I took any punctuation and capitalization as an atttempt to communicate by a guy who's obviously passionate about the subject. I don't allow my self to get mad either, life's too short. and its usually a misunderstanding anyway limited by a one dimensional comminication medium.
Thanks for your input, as always.
-
I have listened to both speakers in my search among both speaker lines for my own home.
I find as you move up through the models in the two lines the presence of the imaging and staging moves more and more outside the confines of the speaker itself. The bass response gets deeper and deeper, as physics would dictate.
Of the speakers I have auditioned the RF52 has a bass response that to me would require a sub. However it would work well in smaller rooms. It also uses same tweeter as the RF62 and RF82 so that part of the speactrum will be very similar.
The F2 is actually a remarkably good speaker (and the F3 as well), and Klipsch engineers should be commended for bringing the Klipsch experience buyers in this sector. These speakers are IMHO head and shoulders above other speakers at the same price point, especiall among the peer products with which they are typically sold. There's nothing in this price point sector that provides the same you-are-there experience and which takes full advantage, by its considerably better efficiency, of the power of the receivers with which it will likely be paired.
The F2 is actually much more comparable to the RF62, with the latter providing a worthwhile increase in refinement and balance.
My first recommendation would be to audition the RF62, because its typically discounted price may be found to be too close to the F2 to pass up, and he will have a really excellent speaker, which will be well beyond what most owners will be able to enjoy..
But I understand budgets, so...
if I had to choose between the two models you list, I would clearly choose the F2.
FWIW, YMMV.
-
Picture is worth a thousand words.
I would also like a similar design on a polarfleece or windbreaker (lands end type) jacket.
Also very good would be a vest of similar type.
A timeless classic would be a denim jacket with the above pictured embroidered.
Another would be a classic bomber leather, again with an embroidered patch or logo.
Embroidered logo patches that you could sew on your own apparel
If polo shirts or t-shirts, I like the logo on the sleeve, like an arm patch on a uniform.
If t-shirts, black is back.
-
Thanks guys for your input. To some degree, in regard to the surrounds, my speaker choice is being determined by the orientation of the room, for both acoustic and practical reasons. I've been waxing between the wide dispersion of the RS62's and using a tower (RF62 or RF82) because the more controlled directivity and ability to more easily move the speaker for acoustic reasons might be advantageous. I would REALLY appreciate you input on this issue at this point in time as I am trying to finalize my speaker selection. But the basic orientation of the room to me was step one.
I had concerns for either placement orientation as the ceiling will reflect directly to the listening area from the front speakers with either.
Since you guys think the orientation with the ridge running left to right is easier to cope with, I can better focus on the speaker selection. To some degree, I think you have to get a preliminary speaker placement in order to identify what problemns you have, absent any very sophisticated measurement and prediction software.
If pictures would be more helpful, I could try to take some, and post -if I can figure out how
.I plan to use this room as a learning tool, but I think if these thought processes are aired, and documented as I go along, it might help others with the same issues. Sort of a Klipsch lab. I have seen the willingness and generousity like this with several other folks projects. And I think the expertise available here .
I know of no other forum like this with such a diverse and broad support base, including even implemetation of the prodcut into the room.
-
So are time delay and group delay two separate things?
Or is time delay just one form of group delay?
-
T-Shirts, long and short sleeve, microfiber ala. Under Armour.
Polo type shirts with embroidered logo or logan in a color very nearly that of the shirt, so it is subtle, and therefore more versatile which you can wear more places.
Following Fini's graffitti sugestion above, on the no-so-subtle front, cotton t-shirts with the design of the shirt done by one of the more famous grafitti artists, as though the Klipsch message was air-brushed or sprayed on the shirt. This would more likely appeal to the ipod groove sector, and increase brand awareness among younger demographic. could also be coordinated with other advertising media.
-
DrWho
Why do you prefer this orientation (TV along the attic wall)?
-
GREAT discussion so far folks. Thanks for all the positive and constructive contributions. And i am closing in on an understanding of this.
What is Temporal Smearing?
(I had always thought it was the condition of my wife's makeup after she rubs her head wondering how we can enjoy this kind of converstaion. : ] )
I also see it referred to as "temporal shift"
-
In my short time here, I have often been impressed by the depth, and diversity of knowledge here.
The problem I often have with locating knowledge in a given area, is that often the best white papers and reference information, as well as some excellent web sites, flies under the radar screens of search engines if the don't have a commercial interest and/or are very popular for some reason.
In several threads I have read here someone will reveal a reference to some exceptionally useful information, which might be difficult to locate later, or which clearly answers a frequently asked question. Sometimes a thread itself evolves into an unusually useful examination of a subject.
So I thought I might suggest that consideration be given to a reference section of the forum which would be a repository for hard to find information, links to useful information, links to repected whitepapers. There might be some method for nomination of material to the forum, or possibly a way for folks to rate the value of the thread, and after a threshold is passed, it might be archived for reference.
I think this approach would be very valuable to the members here, and as the quality and value of the reference material grows, it will bring more traffic and interest to Klipsch.
-
If you have opportunity, try to audition AKG, Sennheiser, and Grado. All are highly regarded within the music industry, and each has an excellent heritage. Each line will generally be voiced according to the engineering philosophy of the company, as with spekaers, and generally you'll pretty quickly like the sonic signature of one of these lines Then its just a matter of fine tuning what you like within the product line.
I found the Grado SR80 to be my favorite, and an excellent value as well. I like them for much the same reason that I like Klipsch, that is you listen to the music, not the headphones. They also can be driven by an ipod easily.
Google "headroom" and "headwize". Each will take you to two different sites devoted to headphones. There is a lot of great info there, especially about what type of headphone to choose, and compatibility with different equipment. They also make recommendations and show ratings of headphones, though it is limited to the headphones they carry.
-
FWIW, to me as a third party, neither of you came across aqs confrontational. Rather, you just engaged in debate, in the true sense of the word: " a formal discussion on a particular topic in which opposing arguments are put forward". I was impressed by the obvious mutual respect -and openmindedness- displayed, which is why I commended you earlier.
Would that more participants in forums these days could more constructively debate as you have done.
-
Polar Fleece jackets. Caps definitely. Underarmor T-shirts. Sweatshirt. Coffee mug.
-
In a small room I'd probably go with a sealed system too [
]Btw, what is an LLT alignment?
Fairly new acronymn on the DIY forums for "large, low-tuned" which are currently gaining in popularity in that community due to output potential at lower frequencies. In the commercial community however, larger is more difficult to sell.
-
kramskoi and DrWho;
In both of your posts you make reference to passive radiators that would imply to me that you have to be very careful in their design. Under what conditions would passives be most advantageous over ported, and when would ported be better. When would you choose to use another active driver over a passive, and under what conditions would a passive be most beneficial.
Your discussions would seem to indicate a sealed approach is the most versatile and/or forgiving in many applications, primarily for smaller rooms. More complex designs seem to be best applied to address a specific problem or objective. Would you agree with this -very general - assessment?
I notice that Klipsch engineers have chosen a design with not one, but two passive radiators for their upper end reference subs which are likely to be used in a small to large home environment. A slot ported design has been chosen for the THX line which I think would typically be used in high output applications and larger venues. I 'm just intrigued as to the thought process and analysis they may have gone through, and am trying to filter the route they chose in the context of what you have discussed above.
Perhaps at the Pilgimmage some of you had a chance to talk to designers about this and might share some of the reasoning behind the choices.
to know how it compares to the ML alternatives, which have very, very good articulation. I have heard the RT12d, and there was basically nothing that I look for in a sub that this unit lacked. However, the price of admission is a stretch for sure, and I am not sure if I need the additional output, given my actual listening preferences.
Dampening Spray???
in Technical/Restorations
Posted
I can recommend the Cascade Spray. I have used it to damp resonate door panels in car audio applications. The Cascade products are all top notch, produced by folks who understand the acoustics involved, and also understand value. It is a product specifically formulated for its purpose.
The manufacturer recommends multiple coats for best results, and you should let it dry in between coats. You may wish to apply several coats. It is a latex based product, so drying time is a function of humidity and temperature. But when dry it doesn't emit odor like other products.
VB-1 can be purchased either in aeresol spray form, or by the gallon in which case it can be either sprayed with a compressor, or applied with a brush.
The same product is also highly recommended to coat the inside of sealed subwoofer enclosures, of for the damping of resonant speaker walls.
I have used Cascade Audio's product support, and find it very good should you have questions as to the use of their product.