Raider
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Posts posted by Raider
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Make sure you mate the speakers with quality components. The receiver/amp doesn't need to be a zillion watts, but whatever watts it does have need to be clean and real watts. The nicer your components, the better you'll enjoy the Klipsch experience.
I will be using a Yamaha RX-V657. How well sonically does Yamaha generally do with Klipsch?
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Really no need to plead give them a listen properly set up and they will sell themselves.
Reference series old or new also sounds great. The only problem with the RF 7 series is if you went with them you would have to buy them all before they run out of stock ?
Now the hard part finding some propely set up.
See if someone in your area has a setup and ask for a listen, most are glad to show them off. Where do you live ?
I have audtioned them at two dealers so far. I have an appointment in the morning with a third. Another appointment with a company with competitor's speakers next week. Both the showings before allowed me to audition in stereo. I am hoping the dealer tomorrow is set up for surround. I haven't seen any of the older line around so far, except for one pair of the bookshelf 8" ( sorry don't know the model number.) I am also trying to decide whether for my application it makes more sense to optimize the mains (RF83 or RF63) for critical listening with less than optimal tibre match for the surrounds (RS52). Or whether tibre matches all around are better (RF62/RC62/RS62)
I live in Franklin, TN near Nashville.
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I am trying to assemble an HT room to be used for the next few years by my family. We have gradually stopped going to the movies for a variety of reasons, ...
We stopped going out to movies and concerts because they couldn't compare to what I experience in my Home Theater listed below. [H] That's my best argument.[
] Thats what I figured. Plus we can eat dinner, be together as family (or not), stop for intermission anytime. also I find people incredibly inconsiderate and rude these days at theatres. Cell phones, talking, late arrival, etc.
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How big is the room and budget ?
2 Cornwall lll's
4Heresy lll's
Same mid and high drivers
They are just a little bigger than Reference, not much.
IMHO
Budget about $2-3000
Room is 17.5 by 16'. 8 foot ceiling at side wall. Ridged peake at 10'. (Bonus Room above garage) Refernce line will be pushing it as far as space. Of course SAF is at play; reference is about as much as I can get by with and retain general use of the room. Actually considered in walls, but haveen't heard anythng that sounds as good as standalone speakers yet.
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I am trying to assemble an HT room to be used for the next few years by my family. We have gradually stopped going to the movies for a variety of reasons, and I woould like a room for cinema. The room will include sound treatment, and the resource here in Architecture is very valuable. I am also an audiophile, so the room will be used also for critical music listening.
This represents the most substantial investment I have ever made, and I'm trying to make the best decsion possible. I have researched DIY for several years off and on, and am attracted by the possibility of very good drivers for the money, and there are many good proven designs. However, with the influx of asian parts, and the decilne of the dollar against the euro, the quality to $ ratio of DIY has diminished somewhat, so I am also considering commercial offerings. Which has brought me to Klipsch. I have always aspired to Klipsch since college in the 70's, having heard the horns and heard PWK speak at an AES meeting. But having been away from the product for many years, during which Klipsch has gone more mass market, I am not as sure of the product as I was. The Heritage line is still out of reach for me financially, and practically given my room, so my search has brought me to the Reference line. The nagging question for me is this: Will I get as much quality for my money, and absolute sound quality as I would if I pursued DIY desihns using premium driver offerings, often found in some of the best/most expensivespeakers. Are the Klipsch really that good. Are they a speaker you will enjoy more and more, or only till the new wears off.
Put more simple, why did you buy Klipsch? Are they really competitive in both sonic quality and value, or more marketing sizzle. Real deal or not? Have you had long term happiness or not? What products do you feel Klipsch is competitive with; what do you consider their peer products (Reference line)
Thanks for an input, objective or subjective.
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I believe due to the horizontal nature the comb filter effects come to play and the tapered array is used while vertical mounted speakers do not exibit such effects and do not need tapered arrays.
Parts of this white paper on line arrays by Jim Griffin would suggest that it can be perceived in both vertical and horizontal orientations....
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[:#]
Wow. I forgot that I had a Klipsch belt buckle in college, until I saw the picture.
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I have seen tapered array crossovers referenced in some of the Reference line literature. Crossovers in this configuration minimize lobing at frequencies shorter than the spacing between multiple drivers, and allow a better defined midrange while maintaining the advantage of the cumulative bass response of multiple lighter-coned drivers . Such a configuration is apparently used in the RC64. Do the RF83, RF63, RF82, RF62, RF52 also use this configuration? I surmise from the limited language in the literature that this is probably the case.
I find it interesting that the sales info pretty much glosses over this aspect of the design, or at least fails to develop enough detail to make the significance of this design technology evident.
For instance, multiple drivers with lighter cones operating in unison allow the bass drivers to better match the exceptional efficiency of the horns, while simultaneously allowing exceptional transient response over that of a single, heavier cone. By using this crossover design, the mid range interference between drivers that would result normally is eliminated or mitigated. Drivers in this configuration also limit vertical dispersion, which allows the dispersion pattern to better match that of the horns. This results in a dispersion pattern that is inherently applicable to many room environments and HT applications. So i think the work that Klipsch engineers have done to optimize the overall design and emphasize the inherent strengths of their heritage go unfortunately unnoticed at worst, or minimized at best. It's really remarkably ingenous work.
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Has anyone purchased or auditioned these subs? ow do they compare to similar priced offerings from Velodyne or SVS.
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I am working on an HT room. The room is is 17.5 feet by 16 feet. One side of the 16' dimension is adjacent to an open stairwell which effectively means it is 19 feet to the wall for the most part. The ceiling is a-shaped with the ridge of the ceiling running along the 17' axis. The peak is 10' high , the ceiling is 8' high at the side walls.
I can orient the room either with the line of sight parallel to the peak of the ceiling facing the 10' peaked wall, or perpendicular to the peak facing an eight foot wall.
To the rear of the eight foot wall is a walk in attic, whic would afford a lot of flexibility for running wiring, placing inwall subwoofer enclosures, building in racks, etc.
Which orientation would likely be the best acoustically?
I am planning to place acoustic treatment as necessary. Dimensionally wich orientation would be best? What are the most likely trouble spots?
Thanks
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After auditioning several speakers from the Klipsch line last week I came away liking the RF62 for its balanced spectral presentation and accuracy. I liked the RF83 for its more holographic imaging and staging, and dynamic presence. I have compared the two in the literature from Klipsch I have some questions regarding the difference between the two. First is there any substantial difference in the construction of the enclosures? I know that the 83's are wood venner vs the 62's vinyl. Any diffence in the bracing, acoustic damping, etc? Second I know the 83's have a larger tweeter driver than the 62's; what is the difference between the bass drivers of the two (other than obviously the size). As far as the crossover, is the RF83 crossover a tapered array configuration? Is the RF62's taper array as well? In summary, what makes the RF83/63 command such a premium over the rest of the line?
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I have recently auditioned the Klipsch reference line, and my favorites are the RF83, RF62, RB81 and RB61. My concern is that while the RF83 is clearly my favorite, it represents nearly 3 times the cost of the RF62, and I found the voicing between the two speakers quite different. Unfortunately the music and modes selected did not allow to form any opinion of the surround speakers.
My choices seem to be one of these two alternatives: either an RF83 based system which for budgetary reasons would dictate more affordable surrounds. A second alternative would be an RF62 based system with surrounds using the same 6" drivers. The timbre matching of the second system would be very close. But since the RF83 uses different drivers, the tibre matching would be more difficult with surrounds.
Given the speakers listed, what combination would you recommend.
Woulda been a no brainer if had had stopped with the RF62 and not gone into the other room to hear the RF83
Thanks for any suggestions
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Just how good are the Klipsch surrounds? I have read that THX specs call for a wide dispersion side and rear speakers such as the dipole RS Klipsches. However, I have also read that more music CD's and DVD's are being mixed to utilize a full range speaker in the rear channels. Since the surrounds would likely be on stands in my application, the footprint is the same as that of a floorstanding speaker, whose bass response I'm sure would be better.
I just thought I would get some feedback to see what choices you have made in your system and why. What do you find to be optimal layout of front, sides and rear?
Thanks
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Given an up-to $1k budget, what would you get? Klipsch? Which model(s)? Some other alternative?
I find Klipsch's sub line to be rather confusing. The strategy seems to be to offer a sub at a number of price points. If there is some clear delineation between the models technically, it escapes me from reading the site. My priority is musicality first, output second. The other priority is solid output in the 20-40 z range, as the bass is very good in the Klipsch speaker line, enough so that the lowest octave is the primary concern.
Thanks for any input.
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The subject of compression, heat buildup, and distortion is discussed on the Rhytmik site. I'd be interested in your comments on that data. The servo also allows a .5 q overdamped alignment which I like in a relatively small enclosure. I am considering this option for the studio/office application where less output will be required and accuracy and low distortion is premium. I am actually looking at the multiple driver option for the HT apllication, for just the reasons you cite. I am finding that the bass response is so solid and low on the Klipsch alternatives I am considering that I'm having to reconsider options. What will be needed is solid response only on the lowest octave, with no distortion, and crossover flexibility to allow seamless integration with the excellent bass response of the mains. Such output in this octave requires power and displacement, or a horn the size of my second floor. I've ruled out IB due to noise considerations in the neighborhood, but an attic space adjacent to the HT area will allow large sub enclosures to be built into the wall. Would it not be best to fire suc a sub into the corner of the room?
Hmmm...interesting discussion on their website. I don't disagree with anything they said, but they did seem a bit narrow minded talking about the same 3 distortions over and over. I would very much be interested in what they think is their biggest limitation/tradeoff. Though it definetly sounded like it was written by an engineer that absolutely believed in what he was talking about. Does their system only work with their driver, or does it have the flexibility to work with other drivers too?
The main tradeoff is sheer output, as far as I can tell. Additional cost too. The conceptThecan be used with any dual coil sub; however the designer says that you give up about 3db efficiency. His driver is built by TC Sounds, and uses a much smaller guage wire for the feedback coil winding, which helps reduce voice coil weight. For accuracy this seems a good alternative for music; for HT apps maybe less so were sheer output is needed for effects.But if you have free attic space for building large enclosures then I would definitely recommend going that route. All the fancy tricks aside, the bigger the box the better it will perform.Something like a few Dayton IB15's powered with a Crown XTi (built in DSP) sounds like an awesome setup. Put a 16x16 manifold just above each corner with the drivers firing at each other on opposite sides (so that the mechanical vibrations cancel themselves out). 10 cubic feet per driver. You can expect a peak around 130dB with good extension down to 10Hz.
By the backwave firing into the attic, which by venting is open to the neighborhood, would this not potentially lead to problems? Or does te loose insulation serve as enough of a bass trap? -
Raider,
Are you interested only in new products? A line Klipsch produced several years ago (KSP) might fit your bill. I own the KSP-400s (built-in subs), and they're terriffic for HT. You won't get too many recomendations on these, as not many folks have heard them. When they pop up on eBay, they're usually bargains (the 400s listed for $3500/pr., but routinely go for under a grand on eBay).
Thanks for the tip. I'll check this out. Any concise place for info on this product ( I take it it is no longer in production).
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...First I am doing an HT room in my bonus room. I will be using a 50-60" DLP...
Welcome to the forum and stick around for a while and enjoy the madness.
I looks like you are already getting good advice on the sonic end of things. I want to chime in on the video side.
If you don't already have the display device I would try and persuade you to consider a projector and screen, over any sort of "TV" if your application will support it. Having already built a dedicated HT and explored several options I found that a projector and screen is the only way to get that "movie house" feel.
There are a million things to consider and surely there is no universal answer. Cost, room lighting/darkening, cost, video quality, cost, connections, cost and cost[
] are all factors. At the very least check out some projector/screen combinations that would be in the same price rage. Projector prices have dropped drastically over the last few years.You are on the right track with room treatments. The have made a bigger impact on my listening enjoyment then any, perhaps all of my equipment changes.
I agree that projection screens are by far the most bang for the buck, and give the movie house feel. Unfortunately, my room precludes such an approach. One end of the room is windows. The adjacent wall is an open railing that opens into a two story stair well and hallway. So control of ambient light is not really manageable. For the same reasons, the room precluded me from seriously considering the Heritage line. I am hoping that a really good sound system may help to gain back what I lose in the theatre experience by having to use a smaller screen.I have been researching acoustic design, reading a white paper recommended somewere on this forum. I am willing do do what is needed with this including minor architectural modifications. Thanks for your suggestion.
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Hi Raider,
Welcome to the forum if you haven't been formally welcomed yet already [
] I did get your private message.As far as subwoofer I would agree it's an arena where DIY usually
results in more bang for the buck. As far as servo is concerned - I
have read/heard that there are very real tradeoffs to be considered
with such an approach. The one thing that frequently comes up is
power-compression (heating of the voice coil) which is a result of the
extra power required for the function of the servo. In most cases you
can achieve the same decrease in distortion offerred by servo simply by
doubling up the number of drivers (which may or may not be a trivial
solution). But in the end, you end up with much much less power
compression. Is "infinite" baffle an option in this room? One of my
favorite solutions is a false front wall that can house flushmounted
speakers, inset screen / TV, and of course housing the insane IB. The
size of the enclosure is the ultimate limiting factor (Hoffman's Iron
Law) and servo seems to be a solution geared more towards small
cabinets.
The subject of compression, heat buildup, and distortion is discussed on the Rhytmik site. I'd be interested in your comments on that data. The servo also allows a .5 q overdamped alignment which I like in a relatively small enclosure. I am considering this option for the studio/office application where less output will be required and accuracy and low distortion is premium. I am actually looking at the multiple driver option for the HT apllication, for just the reasons you cite. I am finding that the bass response is so solid and low on the Klipsch alternatives I am considering that I'm having to reconsider options. What will be needed is solid response only on the lowest octave, with no distortion, and crossover flexibility to allow seamless integration with the excellent bass response of the mains. Such output in this octave requires power and displacement, or a horn the size of my second floor. I've ruled out IB due to noise considerations in the neighborhood, but an attic space adjacent to the HT area will allow large sub enclosures to be built into the wall. Would it not be best to fire suc a sub into the corner of the room?
For your office/studio - do you mean "studio" as in "recording studio"?
I've had great results with the Mackie's, not a fan of JBL but they are
definetly popular, I've never heard of Blue Sky and have yet to hear
any of the Dynaudio lineup. Just keep in mind that you need to pick a
monitor based on its ability to help you translate your mixes - picking
monitors that make music enjoyable tend to be ineffective.
I anticipate the Garageband application already being used on my G5 by the kids may someday expand to Logic or ProTools. I'd also like to have the ability to do more serious video/audio editing. These speakers will also be used for general purposes, such as downloading music, entertainment, etc. Are there any speakers in the Klipsch line that are recommended.
As far as DIY mains for your audio room...I would be rather hesitant
unless you've got decent measuring capability. I'm not saying that any
of
those options will sound bad, rather quite the contrary, but targeting
the next level of finess you are simply shooting in the dark
without decent measuring equipment in your toolbag. And for someone
interested in a more high-end sound I would be much more comfortable
relying on the extensive labs and expertise of the guys building stuff
everyday. I know that takes away the entire thrill and learning
experience of DIY, but you're talking about a lot of money with a lot
of expectation. Ultimately this hobby is about enjoying yourself so
you'll have to decide if the end product or building of the product
is going to bring you more enjoyment in the end.
In the immortal words of the great philosopher Clint Eastwood, "a man's got to know his limitations". Mine are just as you say; I lack the time and resources for detailed design, as interesting as it is for me. Rather I would be assembling designs developed by those with such talent and resources. Some of the DIY designs I am looking at are those at Selah Audio, a well respected designer/builder who builds using a variety of driver lines and who also builds line arrays. The main reason I am having difficulty with this alternate is that it is difficult to find designs that meet the THX specs. Common sense tells me that best results would be easier to attain if the drivers matched all around, as would be the case with Klipsch. Its difficult to find DIY designs that use the same drivers in different configurations (floor, bookshelf, dipole, etc).
How does the reference compare to the rest of the market? I mustconfess that I'm always on the lookout for something that sounds betterthan a klipsch product in the same price range. So far the only place Ican see that happening is with the outdoor speakers (hardly a situationof high-fidelity anyway). I was just saying in another thread that whenI'm out with my buddies there are occasions where someone (sometimesmyself) comment on out of the ordinary good sound quality. At least 75%of the time we find the Klipsch label. I don't think it's coincidenceeither - horns have so many advantages to audio and in my opinionKlipsch makes the best ones - though I might consider them tied in someregards with Tannoy until you consider the price difference [] If youget the chance, I would definetly throw Tannoy into your audition list(even for the studio monitors too...).I'll try to find some Tannoys.As far as PWK's original vision - it is still very much a driving force
in the engineering departments. If you get the chance, partake in one
of the Klipsch Pilgrimages where you will quickly discover a great
legacy being continued. Heck, read a few of the threads in the Klipsch
Pilgrimage section of the forum. The market has of course changed since
PWK's passing and likewise Klipsch has needed to change with it. PWK was never good at the business side of things, but even
with the mass markets they are still trying to maintain the same
engineering philosophies. PWK was always talking about how effiency and distortion
are inversely proportional - notice that Klipsch is always on top in
that category.
I find this manifests itself most with dynamic transients, where exponential power needs are at play. And these make the difference between a pleasant listen and portrayal of lifelike sound, a Klipsch hallmark I am finding.
On the forum there seems to be a little contention between the
reference and heritage crowds and I feel the differences between the
speakers get a bit blown outta proportion. They definetly sound
different, but choosing one as superior seems a bit extreme. I've heard
the RF-83's and would without a doubt take them over khorns. Yet I'd
take the new Cornwall 3's over the RF-83's. But if you're doing home
theatre then it's a no brainer to go Reference because of the
importance of timbre matching the rest of the system (unless you plan
on having 7 cornwalls or lascalas in your room). So all that to say,
the Reference lineup was designed to be the best of both HT and music.
Well said.
I don't have much listening experience with the new reference lineup so
can't comment on best performer and best value. However, with the older
reference lineup I very much preferred the sound of the RF-3II's and
RF-35's over that of the RF-7's. The reason being a lack of power in
the midrange on the RF-7 (which can be attributed to dual 10" drivers
trying to play higher than they should). I know it's a minority opinion
shared amongst a few of us, but apparently it's a moot point because
Klipsch tried to address that issue with the new RF-83. Triple 8's have
the same surface area as dual 10's which means same punchy bass with
cleaner mids - further enhanced by a lower crossover point and more
capable tweeter (that also happens to go higher too). Compared directly
to its heritage brothers the RF-83 is still a bit weak in the mids, but
the overall presentation is much smoother. I'm not a huge fan of the
cerametallic woofers and think paper drivers distort nicer, but without
them Klipsch wouldn't be able to maintain the same crazy sensitivity
specs. But that's about all I can think of on the negative list. Build
quality is good, dynamic as heck, great tonal balance, etc etc...
The classic tradeoff. Hard to make a larger, relatively heavier cone respond fast enough to overcome inertia for accurate midrange; hard for a smaller cone to displace enoug air for bass.
Anyways, enough rambling...in light of PWK's ideals I would challenge
you to let your own ears be the judge. Do you already have speakers in
this room and are simply looking to upgrade? The reason I ask is
because you want to have an idea of what the speakers will sound like
in your room - not the dealer's room. Since you'll be dropping a lot of
cash you might even find the dealer willing to allow some demos in your
own room as well. It can't hurt to ask.
I spent some time auditioning Reference's at a local dealer tonight. Took a favorite CD, "Out of the Grey" which I have used to tweak many systems in vehicles. I basically went in with an open mind. I heard the RF52, RF62, RF82, RF63, RF83, RB51, RB81, and RC62 and RS52. Of the floor models in one room, I emerged with the RF62 as my favorite. It projected a lifelike image with excellent spectral balance. I was most surprised that I liked the RF62 better than the RF63. I also found the RB81 to be an excellent value, projectig a very good soundstage with surprising bass depth. I could ave been exquisitely happy with an RF62 based system. Except this mean dastardly salesman took me to the high end room to hear the RF83. We went back and forth, playing the same cuts back to back. I think you could be extremely happy with the RF62. If you had never heard the RF83. I found the 83 to have all the good attributes of the other speakers in the line with none of the lesser traits. Holographic bass detail. Natural lifelike midrange. Detailed highs. Excellent dynamics. Three dimensional soundstage. In a few words, the RF83 has that special intangible quality I remembered from hearing Klipshorns in a studio control room years ago. They just seem to go away, and let the music be. Now I have to re-access, and decide whether or not to step up. Affordable excellence, or stretch to exceptional.
Btw, what kind of music do you listen to?
I like all music, anything done well. I find I listen most to Contemporary Christian, Rock, Country, Jazz, swing, big band, bluegrass, just about any expression.
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Wow Sunburn. That has to be a great sounding system. That's some TV stand! Not too far off of oldbuckters recommendation. I'm glad there are those like you who have the room and re$ource$ to take this route.
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I am limited to the Reference line for these reasons. The Synergy line does not meet my preferences for refinement in sound quality. My room is not quite large enough for the Heritage line, and they are out of reach for my budget in an HT application. As far as cost no object, I meant within the Reference line; I'm trying to nail down if there standouts within the line independent of price. Thanks.
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I'm familiar with studio monitors; I'm looking for a speaker that offers both the accuracy of a monitor and is also good to listen to for general purposes. I'm looking at Klipsc RB61 or RB81 for this purpose, compared to other monitors out there. Low level sensitivity for late night use is also a concern. The Scan Speak tweeter I'm looking at is the new AirCirc at about $225. A set of Scan Monitors would price out at about the same point as a pair of RF63's. Thanks for the heads up on the B&W efficiency. Glad to see you are a loyal fan, people aren't enthusiasts without good reason. Klipsch was indeed difficult to quantify. Thanks for the input!
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First, some context...
I am considering Klipsch for two applications. First I am doing an HT room in my bonus room. I will be using a 50-60" DLP and I want a sound system that will leave as little compromise as possible. The room will receive acoustic treatment as necessary. I will be building my own subs, most likely Rhythmik servos or possibly TC or Dayton based designs. I could consider Klipsch subs, but haven't yet found as much performance for the dollar ($500-600) as the DIY route can buy.
The second application is a set of monitors for my office/studio, which will be an extension of my Mac G5's capabilities. I want uncompromising reference quality for this application. I have considered studio monitors from JBL, Mackie, Dynaudio, and Blue Sky for this application, and will use a sub.
The HT application will also be used for music. I am also considering alternatives from DIY designs using world class drivers from Scan Speak, Seas, Morel, and Fountek. Also considered are commercial designs from Monitor Audio, ERA, Aerial Acoustics, and B&W.
I am in the proces of locating and auditioning various choices, including the Klipsch Reference line. So I have some tough choices ahead, since this expenditure is the highest of any audio investment I have made. I have a respect for Klipsch that dates back to the 70's when I worked in studios as an intern and got to hear Paul Klipsch speakat the opening of a studio featuring his Klipschorns. You had to respect the end result, and PWK's no-BS attitude. However, frankly, I stopped following Klipsch for a while having been disillusioned by the earliest mass-market offerings, which I felt were not consistent with the earlier spirit of the company. The return of my interest in Klipsch began with the audition of an RF63 against a B&W tower.
I have spent several hours researching Klipsch here and on the 'net. The Heritage line is not compatible with my HT room in size or cost. The Synergy line, while very competitive at its price class, is not as refined as I would prefer. So my questions are confined to the Reference line.
While I know by definition I would expect a certain bias here, I have found from reading past posts that there still is a fairly high level of honesty and objectivity here.
So my questions:
How does the Klipsch Reference line compare to the alternatives listed, in your experience?
How happy are Reference owners post purchase? How is brand loyalty as a function of owner satisfaction?
Has Klipsch compromised Paul's original vision, philosophy, and work ethic since his passing? Or is the current corporation a logical extension of the way Paul would have continued to develop product, in the context of new technology and manufacturing opportunities?
How is the build quality and reliabilty of the Reference line as compared to peer product? Some posts in this regard have given me pause, though they seem to have diminised somewhat in recent past. Is the build quality of the Hope based products (apparently the RF83, RF63, and RC64 at this point, I think) as good as those produced in China, better, or worse?
Are any of the current line unequivocably considered best of the bunch? Which speakers in the line if any represent an outstanding value, regardless of price?
For each of my applications: Cost no object what would you recommend? Highest value for the dollar, what would be your choice?
Unless my auditions yield a speaker that is clearly superior, I am inclined to go with Klipsch by virtue of what the efficiency gets you. It's hard to forget Paul's compelling demonstration years ago on the value of system headroom.
Any objective, and positive, input of feedback into my decsion process is appreciated. While some of my questions may be controversial, I know that Paul certainly had no fear of an objective presentation of his product in a competitive environment.
Thanks in advance.
A fellow music lover.
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Is "new Heritage" an oxymoron?
One thing I have found out the hard way. I have seldom regretted stepping up to what I really wanted, but I have often regretted settling for an 80% solution.
Now if I can just figure out what I want!
It used to be easy. When I was in college I couldn't afford any of them.
] 
Okay. Plead your case for Klipsch...
in General Klipsch Info
Posted
Thanks for the detailed and informative feedback.