jmorgan32

I am considering a pair of Klipschorns. I noticed in the manual that is says "fit them tightly into a corner without any baseboard or trim interference." If your basement is already finished with baseboards, do most of you recommend cutting off the baseboards so that the horns fit tightly against the drywall? Is this "overkill" or does the sound improve dramatically versus just putting them against the baseboards which, of course, would leave them about 1-2" from the drywall in the corners? Thanks a bunch.

Thanks. I am learning slowly but surely. Joe

ps............SORRY for the confusion. I tried to delete the above post but I guess that is not an available option on this forum. Upon further review (not football replay - the 2 units described above) the integrated has .07 THD, and my receiver has .08. My receiver DOES IN FACT have 100 x 2 versus the amp @ 80 x 2, but I also noticed the integrated amp weighs 52 pounds (over twice as much as my receiver!) so it must just have "better stuff" inside. Thanks.

I am a "minimalist" and therefore want "fewer boxes." ie I bought a Denon stereo receiver very recently (the model number skips me) for $499.00 retail. It is rated at 100 watts per and is a very ncely designed piece in my opinion. Being new to this audio "thing", of course, I have now learned that for 2 channel (that's me) almost all folks would much prefer separate components. My question is this=========== Why on the Denon website do I see that they only offer 1 integrated stereo amp and 1 tuner, BUT it has worse specs than my receiver? The integrated amp sells for $1200.00 and again, my receiver was 500. eg......the watts on the integrated is 80 x 2. my receiver is 100 x 2. I also noticed the total harmonic distortion is HIGHER in the integrated. Does any of this make sense? Last question..............................For those of you who can drill this down "to dummy level" for me................i have to believe for them to be able to sell the integrated for 1200 and the receiver is only 500 the integrated must sound better. Yes, no?? (you know the stuff i am hearing/reading ie..........separates have less stuff jammed into the box hence better clearer sound.) Thanks in advance. Joe

THANKS CAL. I also realize I should NOT have made the claim "99% of people" could not hear a difference either. That is a little on the "aggressive side" of claims. Please accept my "edit" on that statement. I just have bad ears! Thanks again, Joe

I am very new to this, but it didn't take me long to learn! I MUST HAVE LOUSY HEARING! I went from a small pair of 15 year old Infinity bookshelves to a new pair of Klipsch floorstanding. So, I naturally decided my "el cheapo" (and YES IT REALLY was el cheapo) receiver had to be upgraded. It was a Sherwood that retails NEW for 79.00. It was rated 100 watts per channel but I don't remember the THD rating. Gave it away, and bought a new Denon 2 channel receiver. (same wattage rating but I remember the THD % being lower. Of course, it SHOULD HAVE improved the sound dramatically. I will admit I never did an A/B comparison, but would swear to God and bet significant $ if blindfolded 99% of the people could not hear a difference. (personally, I think the THD % are "overrated" or not correct so to speak.) Didn't Julian Hirsch once state that ALL amplifiers sound exactly the same? Then a month later, I had read "it all starts at the source", so I upgraded my Sony CD player to a Cambridge Audio. Once again, ZERO DIFFERENCE! So, now I sit with 2 very attractive boxes with nice brand names on them but no difference in sound to me. (ie-the Denon and Cambridge Audio versus Sherwood and Sony) YES........The Klipsch speakers COMPLETELY blow away the puny Infinity bookshelves that I also gave to my sister. I just have to conclude that for ME, speakers make 99.9% of the improvement. (with equal amplification power.) Lastly, I admit I just felt like a total "cheapskate" knowing my old receiver retailed for $79.00! I now think it may very well be one of the best audio "values" in the entire marketplace! All the best, Joe

PS........I LEFT OUT MY MOST IMPORTANT LEARNING! You guys all seem like good folks who are willing to take time to help a beginner, AND all of you have very different opinions about this stuff! Some say start at the "source", others say NO way it should be speakers, and the "ratios" of spending differ quite a bit too. Guess that's what makes the world go round. Thanks again.

Hey Jeff, I must be very very transparent! You are absolutely correct. This has to stop! (I had some good financial luck, but am frugal enought not to just blow money on something that won't sound better.) Thanks Jeff.

THANKS A TON TO EVERYONE ABOVE! I have learned a ton. Some quick learnings just from these posts: 1. You guys have been involved in this much longer than I have, and probably have a much stronger "engineering" type background. eg understanding resistance, amps, etc etc. We all have our strengths and weaknesses, and THIS STUFF is tough for me to get a real solid handle on. 2. You all have enough "working experience" to know a real value and not shy away from buying used "gear." (ok i used the word!) I would have been and still am WAY to paranoid to get used stuff. (plus I am a perfectionist to a fault.) 3. An example of the above is how I got rid of my old stuff. Put an ad in a place call Craigs List (had NEVER heard of it) and my stuff was gone that SAME NIGHT. A young guy with an engineering degree from MIT (seriously) who said he builds amps, came over and for 80 bucks walked with my Infinity speakers, Infinity sub, Monster cables and my receiver. I was just in a hurry to get rid of it.................way too much of a hurry I am thinking........he even said i was "WAY TOO LOW" i just said fine. I did ask if he was going to resell it for a profit (i was just curious) and he said NO way---he was going to use it in his office (not at home) Thanks again for everything. I just came into some dough and was considering the CD player upgrade but based on all of your generous responses I have to make the call that it would NOT be justified to buy some 800.00 CD player to replace my 300.00 Sony with the receiver and speakers I have that are very very new. Thanks again folks. Time to put on some tunes. Bye.

THANKS! That is where I am right now almost to the PENNY! 800 for the pair of Klipsch, 500 for my Denon rec., and 300 for my Sony DVD recorder. Guess that solves my "dilemma" about upgrading my CD player (the above Sony) at least for a while. The speakers and receiver are only a few weeks old, so I just need to relax, listen and enjoy! Burnt out on reading about SACD, CD transports, etc. not sure I would even notice a difference with the quality (or lack thereof) of what I now own. Thanks again!

Thanks Dean. I'm sure you are spot on! Maybe that is the stuff (gear) I don't want to "subject" myself to right now since I just got my system! I think you tend to lose a great deal of dough getting rid of used stuff. For now, I will pretend that the other "high end" stuff (that I certainly don't have) just sounds good in the store because the rooms are set up and designed for optimum sound! (pure rationalization at the highest level!) Hell, I've never even heard of Aragon, but I do believe I would need a bedpan as you described. Take care! Joe

Once again, thanks everyone! I know it must be very boring to answer these "beginner questions" but I REALLY DO appreciate it. This reminds me about a buddy asking me about wristwatches. I am a Swiss watch fanatic and own some very nice ones. However, it took years of reading, buying, learning, etc. etc. The SAME things many of you probably did. We all make some mistakes along the way, and hopefully live and learn. The best way at this time for me to learn some basics is to "pick on you guys" cause you know your stuff! Again, I realize I am nowhere near "chasing that last 5%" that you guys talk about. (just heard that phrase today for the 1st time!) So, for now, I will read, continue to learn, try NOT to ask too many questions and do more "listening and reading." Thanks again guys. You are been more than generous with your time. All the best, Joe Morgan Columbus, OH

Amy, Thanks again for your quick email reply yesterday! Outstanding Cust. Serv. once again. I didn't know you posted here on the board and have to agree with everyone else ===Nice pic! It is nice to match the name with the face. (handsome son too!) Also, as I said yesterday, my interaction with the tech guys was great too. Very professional and generous with their time. Seems like a great "little" family over there "by the pyramids" off of Michigan Rd. (I used to live a block away from your office!) All the best, Joe Morgan

I would imagine this would vary greatly among forum members, but I am just curious and trying to get a very "general idea" about this. My question really boils down to this: What is the APPROXIMATE ratio an audiophile spends for (let's use a simple example) 3 parts of the system? 1. Power (whether it be a receiver, integ amp and tuner, (I know tuner isn't power but I would feel better including it since it is necessary for me to own), pre-amp, power amp, tuner, etc. You all understand what I am getting at. 2. Speakers (2 channel only) 3. CD player/transport I would LOVE to get an idea of your thoughts. You guys are so far ahead in this "new game" for me. Beginner for sure here! I can't even call my stuff "gear yet". This is my "starter kit." Klipsch F-3's=800.00 Denon DRA-685=100 watts per ch. (2 channel receiver) approx 500.00 (sorry if "talking down" but I know you guys use seperates etc & I don't know if you stay up on receiver models etc. I would guess not! They are probably junk to you guys.) Lastly, my CD's are played on an inexpensive Sony DVD recorder that I bought last year for around 300.00 = RDR GX315. I don't watch many movies and use it to dub old VHS tapes over to DVD (my primary motive for the purchase since I had a cheapo DVD player ie Phillips that did NOT record-it only played) So I gave my DVD player and CD player (Phillips cheapo too) to my brother. I would love to hear from you guys if you are in the same ballpark with "ratios" certainly NOT total dollar spends! You are WAY higher there of course. eg my speakers are ROUGHLY twice as much as my receiver My DVD/CD recorder/player is about 50% of my speaker price at most and around 60-70% of what I paid for my receiever. (not using a calculator here and math is NOT my strong suit!!) Thanks guys. I guess I am doing the "rethinking" and looking at the system wondering where the "weak link" MAY be, and what the next purchase may be. I am heading "down the path" as another forum member said to me yesterday. Listening, wondering, thinking, etc. Self talk example "Joe, if you really bought a nice separate CD player of better quality eg a Denon for around 5 or 6 hundred your music would sound twice as good." NO or YES! Am I way off base? I will say right up front I am NOT in the market for one of these CD transports I see that cost 20 grand. That will never happen here. Thanks in advance guys! Joe (ps sorry such a long question.)

Thanks CB, You are right. Another example happened last night. It was late (after midnight) and I want to hear Joni Mitchell LOUD. Of course, my neighbor (upstairs) would have gone nutszoid, so I put on my old Sony headphones. Instead of closing my eyes and enjoying the CD, I was scrolling all over a Grado headphone sight wondering how much better they may sound than my old Sony's!! Hell, I even took the Sony's a month ago to a high end store and did an A/B comp with some Sennheisers and even the salesman said they were damned close, so I didn't buy the Senns. Still scrolling over the Grado site last night though! I don't like this one bit!! Ha.........Thanks Blacksmith.

Thanks. I am definitely familiar with cognitive dissonance. It is more dissonance than "remorse", you are correct. I will be fine. Lots of great feedback from the forum members here has been very appreciated. Thanks

Thanks! I really do feel a lot better. Your comment about the gazillion $ to bump it 5% really helps put it into perspective for me. I really do appreciate it. There are a ton of people on here who really know their stuff, and I don't know squat about audio in comparison. Hah! Life if short. If my family read your comment they would scream "We have been telling him that for 49 years!!" (I am a perfectionist to a fault. Bad......) Thanks again........and BTW I am a native Texan-----born in Harlingen and my entire family is in Fort Worth and Arlington. (stuck here in "yankee country=ie Ohio......but i really do love Ohio too.) Take care. Joe

Thanks Jeff, I appreciate it. Take care, Joe

Thanks a lot for the feedback so quickly! Sure, compared to what I had before, I love the sound. It is just that "weird thinking process" that lots of buyers tend to have after they get something relatively expensive. You know the drill, I'm sure...........It is the "self-talk" stuff like, "Life if short, I should have gone with better. eg- some McIntosh Integ. amp and some speakers for 2 or 3 grand." Ah. Live and learn. Thanks for sharing. That is really all someone can say and still be fair. In looking at your equipment, you wouldn't be happy with what I have I don't think!" I just think "audiophile" learnings are some of the most complex things going! Compared to buying a car, clothing, etc., the audio thing seems to be far and away the most difficult concept for me to grasp and the most subjective category of all "buying decisions". I really wrestle with it! Instead of just relaxing and enjoying, I continue to wrestle with the decisions and have frustration out of not understanding "where to stop." It kind of goes back to the old argument you hear====="hey lampcord would sound just as good with your system as those $150 speaker cables." Do you know what I mean? Thanks again.

Thanks a bunch in advance for anyone who shares some feeback for me. I guess I am having some "buyers remorse" but it may be totally unjustified. I recently bought a pair of Klipsch F-3's. Yes, I realize these are speakers that "true audiophiles" wouldn't even consider owning. I also bought a Denon receiver that is rated at 100 wpc. Of course, with Klipsch being so effecient this is plenty of power. In fact I can't even turn it up to the "9 o'clock" position for fear of the neighbors going nuts! Prior to this 2 channel setup, I simply had a very inexpensive Sony 2 channel receiver and some smaller Infinity bookshelves. Sure, this new setup sounds much better to me but I am still rethinking my decision too much! ie............let me get right to the point/question. sorry for the ramble! I was in a position financially to spend more money, but to be very honest, I don't have what I believe to be an "audiophile or trained ear" as I sometimes hear "you guys" talk about. I had considered eg a Rotel receiver with about the same specs (yes i know not to pay too much attention to specs) but it retailed for around 900.00 and my Denon was 499.00. I also considered other "high end" speakers and the "high end dealer" in town. (of course you Klipsch fans know my speakers are sold at stores like Best Buy etc............or what the high end stores call "box stores") I was considering a brand of speaker called Energy, and they retailed for around 2 grand a pair. Of course, I had no way of doing a "side by side" comp to the Klipsch so I just bought the Klipsch. They sound GREAT to me, but I am now wondering how much if ANY the other 2,000 dollar speakers with a Rotel receiver would have sounded. Opinions please?? I know this may be very vague, etc, but I just don't know if I would have REALLY noticed much difference. One last example of my "listening skill" or hearing ability. I took my headphones into the high end store (cheap old Sonys from the 1980's) and did a direct comp versus a pair of Senheiser very expensive phones. NO difference at all the me. EVEN THE SALES GUY said "You know your Sonys don't sound bad at all, and the Senhiesers have just a little better midrange if you listen to the horns in the song." Well that is just to serve as an example of why I am not sure the 2 gand speakers and Rotel would have made much of a diff to me. Thanks everyone.

Oh, I realize that. By the way, it is "you're." Gee, maybe we could have a spelling bee.[] K. Why not?

Oh, I realize that. By the way, it is "you're."

THANKS again. Makes sense.

Thanks Cal. I think I am going to put them back on. With my luck, some night I would have too many beers and embark upon a vacuuming project, ending up with a hole in the cone..............Seriously, thanks for your time. Joe

Very nice! I saw this pic in a previous post of yours. After getting my F-3's, I saw your speakers on the Klipsch website product page. I know yours are slightly more expensive and the drivers are obviously gold in color and mine are silver. (the materials are somewhat different from the description.) I wonder how much better yours sound (all other things being equal. ) Having "buyers remorse" a little bit since I didn't give your model a "try." I may leave my grills off. (not sure yet) I do see them off in most pics that audiophiles post on fora, and certainly in the stores they are always off. Hmmmm.............just have to consider what potential damage over time it could potentially do to the cones having to either wipe them off or vacuum them. Thanks again. (I bet that room sounds awfully nice.) Joe