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Mems (hope that doesn't insult anyone), This is so obvious a question its like the elephant in the room that no on mentions. From Sound + Vision and HT's reviews this certainly looks like its worthy of consideration by almost anyone. S+V even gave it favorable nods in the same arena as the Velodyne 15+. Its hard for me to trust magazine reviews since they seem to be almost stuck with ad considerations and they often seem to be saying "best ever" (not for this one I think). I'm hoping someone has one and others have heard one; Any of whom can compare to other good subs.. Nic

Greg, Thank you for your response. It so happens that there is an excellent University just minutes form my home and I almost surely will inquire there when the time comes. We are still stuck not knowing if the repairs done to our basement are going to hold up to the cold and snow so we will wait it out this winter. Hopefully springtime will be go time. Its worked out well because the picture shown is obviously not the system iisted in my signature. Kind of lucked out on that as it came in very inexpensively and my wife gets a nice Christmas present for her role in seeing to it that I'm happy. Even with all the cement and open area its a phenominal experience I look forward to every day. That's given the great systems I've seen in the forums which would put me to shame which I will never be able to match. That's fine. I'm way past my original expectations and after following your advice who knows what will result? My heating guy told me there's no way to keep sound from leaking through the vents. I'm hoping against hope that he's wrong. Nic

Thanks All for the great suggestions, I have a while now to make my decision but I've wanted a Velodyne for YEARS! Why? Some of it real, some ot it just the name. What I've read about the 15+ is pretty great and I think its going to stand up with the others. I'm getting a great price delivered so there's not much holding me back. I've also heard the Hsu is pretty amazing but I've just got the bug for Velodyne. I have a nice Paradigm that believe it or not sounds great. I also have the RT12d to use as a spare behind my seat for special movies that blow-up and such. Crazy....I know but I've got the room and desire. I'm a real sub nut. I just love the visceral feeling (in music as well) as much as any of the subs you mentioned would do it. Overall I'm just in love (gushing stupid) with the Velo. I appreciate you all taking the time to school me, though some of it is just over my head and probably always will be. I was a C student in physics. Probably more than you all wanted to know but I was surprised at the many responses I got and time is a precious commodity. Nic

Again, Thanks for the input, I'm taking a $ hit on this one now and I'm going to have to wait but if I look at it over the next 7 years or so I would most likely be kicking myself for settling. N

Thanks all for your input. N

t, the 4810 was very good and I did add the xpa5 when I found out about the amps. Then I set up the 11 channell and it was really too much for my space (26X16X8). I was most disappointed in the wide channel since Audyssey claimed this was the best thing to come along in a long time. When HT reviewed it they weren't too high on it and I got published refuting this in the next editorial. The main reason I changed it was because the 4810 was only good down to 6 ohms and Denon strongly recommended I don't run the Palladiums with it. Your're right, Denon told me the processor section was only a small step down form the $7500 unit I was stuck so I went with what I thought was my best option and you know the rest. I didn't know enough to pick something out of Audiogon and a 499 loss wouldn't have been catastrophic as much as it would have stung real bad. Not to mention the fact that it was the same brand as all those monster monoblocks and has 4 ohm capability to boot. I'm not going to go into my song and dance about the U because everyone's heard it before and is probably ready to wretch. The only thing I want to add is that I learned a few things from this thread and I'm glad for that and to Jason as long. ponderous, and heated as it sometimes got. The thing is, for me, sometimes I get so intent on winning my point that its hard to hear what the next person is saying. I know also that someetimes I dreaded seeing the next post and who was going to take a pot shot at me when really it was just their opinion. So I'm insecure sometiemes...better than sitting there with my misconceptions. N

Bill, Not sure about that. Toyed with the idea of having the RT12d behind my seat so I could turn it on and off for special movies that have a lot of things blowing up and such. We are having limited seating and lots of extra room so this would be easily possible. Really though I'm partial to the Sub12 since it seems the most musical of the two and has a nice mellow tone. Interesting that the plus has that kind of thing being said about it. Thanks, anything else you said would be welcomed. Nic

All, Not much time to get some feedback because its being delivered Monday 12/19 and I'm thinking I might refuse it because it may not have a serious impact on my system. I've read some of the differences including amp, magnet, bracing, and electronics. Seems like a big deal compared to the older model. Anyone? Costly mistake but still cheaper than having something I don't need. Thanks, Nic

J, Thanks, that's a new one for me. N

tk, Its funny that's exactly how it went (except for the adoring groupies). N

nezff, Didn't mean that obnoxiously and I missed the point. As good as Audyssey is (wide and height not necessarily included for me) it doesn't work for me like EQing. Nic

nezff, I 've had Audyssey twice including the wide and height channels that come wiith the nine/eleven channel 4810 which I took the time, energy, and expense to set-up so you can laugh all you want. It just didn't do it for me. Nic

J, It woudn't surprise me if I made 50-75 calls to Denon Tech Services trying to figure out their manuals which are pretty tough for me to understand both on the 4306 and 4810. I was up and down with my satisfaction because I couldn't get the control over the sound that I wanted and now have with my U. The 4810 had to go in for service twice which meant I had to drag it all the way into NYC and then P/U. Denon is not cheap. I loved my Denons when I had them but I found something else that makes me much happiier. Emo has a direct to the customer business and free shipping which cuts out the middleman and responsive Tech Service (maybe not better than any of the others). Sometimes they have sales especially the Holiday sale when I saved seven hundred dollars on amps that were already well priced. Now I'm trying to sell my 4810 for a very good price and have not had one response. N

tk, No, I mean its got an 11 band equalizer for all seven channels plus the sub and that gives the kind of control that few can boast of...I love it and never would have thought to use one had it not been a part of this unit. In another section I was saying how pleased I was to have someone who tours with Guns and Roses come over and school me in the art of EQing because previously I had no clue how; As much as it might be intuitive for others. Nic

Mems, Did anyone see this theater that Chris Huston put together? I think its pretty cool and it seems to, very roughly, to fit, although smaller (except for the ceiling), the dimensions of my theater which is stil bare studs, fiberglass stuffing, and cement walls and floor. My wife temporarily donated a good oriental rug. I don't think I will go with wood as fancy as Chris did but it looks great just the same. We are planning a maroon, gold, and navy color scheme. I wasn't aware of the optimal dimension ratio of 2.33 X !.56 X 1. My room is about 26 X 16 X 8 and I was wondering if anyone would be wiling to tell me what that works out to be? I know this is rediculously elementary but I also guess someone out there would be happy to work it out. Another thing I like about Chris's room is its simplicity and elegance. My wife finds it a bit too much for her taste so I will respect that. A challlenge in my room is that about two thirds of one long wall is going to need to open up to the space which turns to the right if you are facing the back and extends roughly a hundred feet. I think it will be OK if we use the right material. For now I'm thinking some sort ot folding or sliding folding door like they have in some high school gyms. Any comments and observations will be appreciated. We are only having seating for four. As an aside you can imagine the monoblocks are potent Emo or not. I have a Velodyne DD15+ on Santa's sled that will get here Monday. I'm going to study and post in Powered Subwoofers about this issue. Thank goodness I've got so much time to plan this out. Thanks in advance and Happy Holidays!. Looking forward to hearing mostly about the ratio and anything else would be great. Thanks, Nic

Jason, You asked what its worth and we gave you our best estimate. I have no idea what their return rate is; I only know when I had problems, they responded; I'm sure you know I meant something else by a streamlined business practise. I did my best to explain and a couple of other thoughts came to mind. First, I'm no audio expert and I have to rely on the info I get from as many sources as I can. Be that as it may, I still have only a bright IQ at best. There are so many members who could wipe the floor with me as far as intelligence. Not to be sorry for myself...that's just the way it is. So I ask a lot of questions and hope it doesn't annoy too many people. Also, who would pass up the opportunity to have one of the great audio minds in the world right now in their room. Some, but not me. I've never used an EQ before and it gives me the kind of control that I have been wanting for a long time; Its not for the faint of heart. I mean its an art and a science despite the fact that some can set it up in a couple of minutes. The bottom line is the only thing I really care about is how it sounds and it sounds really well...better than anything I've used in the past and the rumors are that the new X series pre-pro is really special. So I potentially get something great and have the opportunity to make someone else happy and put a few easy bucks in my pocket. Also If I had to pay full price for everything I have I would never have anything near the nice system I have now. You might have an ideat what I paid for my Palladiums but it was cheap and it took me years to make that happen. If you want me to answer any specific questions I'll do my best. These two posts represent a lot of what I know and believe. Emo, in general, is a good deal. I think a lot of people would agree with that's the corner stone of my loyalty. Best, Nic

Jason, That's fine. Those are reasonable objections. I'll say more on the correct thread later. I'm still glad you started the debate. Nic

Jason, I'm not sure if it came up in the thread. My ultimate reason for getting the UMC-1 was because their new pre-pro is coming out soon and I will get the 40% off and it will be 900 for me and then I can sell the 1 for whatever. I also found out that my Denon 4810 was only good down to 6 ohms and they strongly recommended I don't mess with that kind of set-up. The 4810 is a great AVR but I found my self stuck with over $4k in Emo amps I couldn't use. Additionally, Emo is replacing my UMC-1 because, as you know it wasn't performing the way I'd hoped. Actually now that I'm getting the hang of it, its not as bad as I had originally thought. A guy who tours with Guns and Roses kind of fell in my lap though a neighbor and came over and tweaked the EQ and schooled me bigtime in about 15 minutes. There are still one or two issues that I'm not sure about so I want to be sure that the UMC-1 I sell is up to snuff since Emo did have a big bag o' problems with it. I know by this time you probably went in a different direction but I just wanted to get on record with my best accounting of what's up with my decision making process. The biggest things for me is the 4 ohm capability and 11 band EQ for all seven channels. Also, as another Member noted Emos stuff if is roughly half off of what the big names are charging due to their streamlined business plan. OK, my conscience is clear. Thanks for starting the thread. Nic

DizRotus, "Darkness darkness be my pillow..." Here ya go Diz. Moving in the right direction anyway. Nic

starz, I just started using EQ with my UMC1 and it is unbelievable. Thanks for reminding me just how powerful a tool this is and I'm finding that its not for the faint of heart. Its actually a bit of an art form. Especially when you really get the hang of it and your ears become more educated. Luckily a guy who tours with Guns and Roses stopped over my place and set it up in about 15 minutes like the pro that he is. I have 11 bands for each of my five channels and its so superior to all of what I've used in the past even given the limitations of the UMC1. I'm also learning a lot of terminology that escaped me in the past. I am a bass nut though and as you see I'm looking to blow the house apart which seems physically possible...ok just for grins. Happy Holidays. Nic

Thanks, Nic

Well put!

Calling all pleasure seekers (not for the squeamish), GOOD Sci-Fi/War with fine soundtrack/effects. Nic

Merry Holidays, If you really like to listen, try this. Nic

Congrats, Must sound very very good. I just bought 1812 and I bet it sounds better at your house. Nic