Xki

My room is 14 x 23 and 2 subs made a world of difference. (2 KSW-12s) I haven't heard the Emo 10"'ers so I can't say if 2 of these will do. 2 are better than 1!

Maybe consider Wuzzer's LPA-1 that he has for sale in the Garage section: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/141428/1441272.aspx#1441272 5 channels at 125 watts, and two at 50 watts vs all 7 at 125 watts. It would save you a little cash and I'm not sure surrounds need 125 watts anyway. I know I say that having 200 watts going to mine, but I do think its over kill. I used to have front & rear Forte IIs with the Academy at center and listened to 7 channel music more (thats what Yamaha calls it, of course I only had 5) but now I find I don't really listen to it much so my surrounds are truely just surrounds and I listen to music on two channel. I have considered wuzzer's amp a couple of times. The family watches a lot of TV and movies but I steer more toward the music end. The way the UMC handles music in PLIIx mode has me hooked. To drive my current RB-25 surrounds, 50 watts should suffice however, I've been known to push beyond the comfortable level and I really don't want to clip the amp section. Somtime in the future, I hope to aquire Klipschorns and relegate the LaScalas to surround duty (or center). Not sure yet. Future usefulness is always on my mind. I know that I could procure a 2, 3, or 5 channel amp in the future to bolster the 2 - 50 watt channels on the LPA. I'm not quite ready for another HT buy and the space available for gear is limited and will be finite when I get around to building it in. 1 7 channel amp will fit. I would love a stack XPAs (even UPAs) so maybe I'll rethink the whole plan. An LPA-1 with a UPA-5 offers a lot of options. I''ve already decided that a projection HT is probably the way we will go in the future and that was a recent change so, who knows!

Well, 30 days is past. I can only assume that the UMC/XPA combo is working out. I have a UPA-7 jones going on. And I just can't shake it!!!!

I wish the picture of your axe was clearer. Even as it is, there's a certain pavlovian response that is triggered! Rock On! The shiney stuff made me smile. Does it actually work?

OH! That's a different thing completely. Tried it. Not impressed. Wasn't as bad as dolby volume but I haven't even considered using it since it was made available and I tried it. It may say 'All Stereo" but I don't think that's an accurate tag. Have you set the advanced playback options so that you don't have to deal with it? PLIIx just get's better as I tweak it. Out of the box, it was bad for music. Now it's my default. (I don't ever use stereo now. It seems thin.) Maybe if I get the old turntable up and running I'll revert? I know, I know. Platters are the best and 44Khz still socks! But hey, I don't have an SACD, most of my LPs went in garage sales, and CDs are still way better than MP3, right! Thanks for the clarification! There isn't a day that goes by that I don't learn something or re-evaluate what I thought was an absolute.

I'm assuming you mean PLIIx, right? What you described sounds a lot like reported dolby volume issues. I will never use dolby volume. No need and the 1 time I tried it, it sounded....... well......... just like you described! If I assumed wrong, pardons please. I have had excellent results with PLIIx. Honestly, I used to think plain stereo was the way to go but I do prefer the PLIIx for almost everything thats not DD or DTS/DTS-HD. I can understand your description and disappointment. And I wouldn't use it either if it sounds that bad.

Yes, absolutely! I was genuinely curious and stand corrected. speakerfritz, my appologies.

I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to say since it's a little off topic but it does appear that you have busted this thread. Just curious, do you feel "good, wamm, and secure"?

And that sums it up quite nicely! Thanks pauln for making the point much more clear.

Just a couple of stomp boxes. Line out into an aux. input. I jast wanted to hear how it sounded..... The amps were packed away in the back of the bus and I needed some pratice time so, what the heck.

I can only repeat what I've been told since I asked that of Klipsch some 30 years back. "Through" your system is sort of OK if you don't crank the heck out of it. Even then, Klipsch had specific drivers purpose made to handle the very abnormal signal waves that a guitar can produce. Using Klipsch directly from a guitar amp is a no-no. Guitar amps can produce a bunch of strange wave forms. If you just tap the strings at a high level, you run the risk of pushing your driver well beyond the point of no return. At least thats what the old timers at Klipsch told me. If you have all the latest guitar effects in a rack that limit the really harsh stuff, it could be fine. What the equipment should be is out of my experience. (A limiter or compressor comes to mind.) I have run my guitars through my setup a few times but at relatively low levels. That was a long time ago. Maybe a call to the experts would give a better and more current idea of what you should do?

Actually, there are some really advanced algorythms at play when using PLIIx. Even a stereo source is converted into surround sound. That is, the signal from the available channels are analyzed against each other to determine what to send to each available channel. For example, there could be dialouge on both left and right as well as a movie soundtrack. PLIIx might fed the voices mostly to the center, decrease them on the left/right, and move part of the musical sound track to the surronds. See: http://www.dolby.com/consumer/understand/playback/dolby-pro-logic-iix.html I don't have a clue as to how it's done but, it does work for what it is intended to do. The manual. I only use it for the picture of the back panel! [] The forums and the Emo videos help tremendously! There is an upside to a lousey manual..... Forced into 'research' mode to figure things out, I learn a huge amount of stuff. I would have thought by now that some really industrious owner would write comprehensive a users guide. (Then I woke up.)

I've had the pop-up on and with the volume I keep tabs on just what this unit is doing. I'm pretty close to turning off the pop-up. I'll need to adjust the input levels for all the sources first. It's to the point now that all expected advanced playback settings are rock solid so the pop-up just tells me that everything is OK. Very interesting when DirecTv, during an HD show, will flip between DD and PLIIx and then to 2 ch for awhile before returning to the DD. You can tell with your ears and the pop-up just verifies that the source is flaky. It would be really cool if there was an extra config to have the volume bar on or off. Ithink I'll post that in the Emo spreadsheet as a wish. The more I think about it, the more I like it. Then I wouldn't get the ubiquitous, "You just have to fiddle with it, don't you?" from the family. That along with an option to place the OSD, pop-up, and volume bar where you want it. (Left-Bottom, Right-Top, etc,, etc.) Oh! And size! Teeny-Tiny or Great Big for those of us with OFS (old fart syndrome).

LOL - To each his own! Man...... I'm still smiling.

Hi Carbon: Yes, I have the BD570. Like you, I had no problems and then it just started to have lags. I switched the cable on the UMC to HDMI3 and things were fine for a while. Now the lag is back. There seems to be correlation between which uniot is powered on first and/or if there is a disk in the drive when using Pandora and/or the internet speed at the moment the Pandora track changes. I have no real way to quantify this. Toslink (or Coax) makes it sort of mute. Being involved in high speed communications, I have to wonder where all the great minds are in the HDMI world. If I can depend on giga-bit data rates going through 50 servers, switching dynamically, and having a latency of 52 milliseconds between India and the USA, why can't HDMI lock on in less than a second? You're right on the bit rate and CDs. 44 and no more. I was referring to the link being capable of 192KHz. Some YouTube content streams at higher bitrates and I've heard that Pandora is contemplating a higher rate also so, the player being capable of 192 over optical is cool. The album artwork for DCs is really nice. Some newer stuff isn't in the catalog yet but it will be. My Panny Plasma is 720p so I've yet to have the res issues some report. I set the DirecTv and BlyRay to highest res and let the UMC limit it to 720p. The Panny will handle 1080i but interlased alwys leave artifacts and football is much better at the lower 720p res. Honestly, 720p at my viewing distance is OK. 1080p will wait for better financial circumstances. The Toslink workaround lifted the last buyer's remorse I had with the UMC-1. I'm happy with this unit and don't see a need to upgrade for awhile. The 3D experience isn't all it's cracked up to be. I already where corrective lenses and an additional set makes any viewing an absolute attitude killer. Having to wear 3D specs is like having to wear a headset to get 7.1 It's not going to happen! HDMI 1.3 is what it is and I don't see any of the issues getting better when everything starts being produced with 1.4 The issues will be bigger and more. So be it. It like having to show an ID to buy over the counter cough syrup. It's a royal pain but what else ya going to do? A have a friend that went the BestBuy AVR route after I told him to "Please let me help you decide!" It's a year later and he stopped over last weekend for the Packer game. After hearing the difference in SQ with higher end gear, he told me he's looking to upgrade. 1 year! I guess all of us have a moment like that. Until Emo releases the XMC and we get some reviews, I'll still recommend the UMC-1 to those interested. I'm satisfied and love having control over just about every aspect of the audio. Regards!

+1 - I agree! Justsolved another anoying problem and posted over at Emo. It was a really easy fix and I feel really dumb for not thinking of it sooner: I had HDMI lock-on issues - 3-10 seconds - and it was driving me crazy! I have a LG BD520 player and other than true BluRay disks, the lock on was causing a big loss at the biginning of every track on CDs, each selection on Pandora, and every YouTube video. Solution: Hooked up a Toslink from the LG optical out to the UMC. Configured a new input on the UMC to use the same HDMI link for video and the Toslink for audio. It works like a charm. Virtually no delay in lock and the bitrate is 192KHz. So, when I play a 2Ch soure on the BluRay player, I switch to the new input and all is well! I'll also pass on the XMC. Sure it will be better but, now that I have the lock-on lag solved, I'm a happy camper with the UMC!

I should clarify that Emo-Q did lock up on me a few times but over all the results sound good, give you a good starting point and the ODS is so much better to work with that what I'm used to. Emo-Q isn't perfect, or is it a run it and be done system and Emo isn't selling that it is. I enjoy working with it more than I did YPAO and feel in my case I'm getting better and more consistant results. The picture I found online of Yamaha's OSD on the 663. It sucks and looks cheap and outdated. Whew! For a while there I was anticipating the worst. Very glad to hear that you're satisfied so far. It took me quite a while to get used to all the variations and remember where to go to do what my ears needed. The OSD is really sweet. The previous AVR I had didn't have OSD. After 8 months I'm still tweaking and testing. That's what I love about this thing. Even changing the crossover points can make a big difference and that's just one config. that you can play with. You wouldn't believe how many people buy the UMC-1 and expect it to be plug-&-play. They are complaining like crazy even though they don't even understand the difference between digital formats. Did Emo-Q lock up during the first part where it tells you to be quiet? The funning thing is that the best thing to do is to NOT be quiet. Some people even scratch the top of the mic and it continues perfectly. Another quirk that only forums can help you with. Keep us posted!

Hey Carbon..... The only issue I can tell you about is pausing a BluRay disk for a minute and then losing the center channel when pushing play. I, too, have an LG so, that might be something to look for. The only other thing, which has always been there, is the lock on time with the LG playing Pandora, YouTube, and some CDs. (HDMI can really be a pain.) I just put back in service a 1984 Realistic 1st gen. CD player with plain analog. Sounds great and of course, no lock on issues. The LG manual states that audio CDs revert to 44KHz and since the Realistic is native 44, they sound just about identical. Not bad for 26+ years old! You haven't mentioned anything regarding "the good". Any info to share? []

Here is the thread over at Emotiva: http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=preamps&thread=7445 AND this one, too: http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=updates&action=display&thread=4121 AND this from Emonatics: http://emonatics.com/XMC-1.shtml (This page has all the info condensed.) It's long and started a while ago but, there is plenty of info! []

We are dying to get your impressions/experiences!

Address for the manual: http://emotiva.com/umc1/manual.pdf

Outstanding!! Please let us know how the ERC-1 performs. The black trim looks way better than the standard silver. My wife said that the silver looked like white walls on a Camero. Ya gotta love gals like that!

Deep breath.... Here we go! Amps tend to last far longer than than the preprocessors do. Amp technology doesn't change as often. If you invest in a great amp(s), they will outlive the pre-pro. That will cut down the upgrade costs significantly. When you purchase a separate amplifier YOU can decide the size and configuration. Most AVRs have 100-200 watts per channel. Unless you spend quite a bit, the spec for all channels driven will be considerably less than the rating. And we all want 'head room'. Not just for those knock you out of your chair punches, but to allow for upgrades in the loudspeakers at some point. You can go with mono-blocks or multi channel amps. Or tubes!!! I know of guys who run 2 mono-blocks for their mains for stereo listening and a 5 channel amp for the other channels in movie mode. Or a 3 and 2. Or 2 - 1s and a 2 and a 3. It's totally up to you. Or you can get 1 7 channel amp for the whole works. The sound quality (a debatable point) is better due to the sheer size of the amp components. Most separate amps in the 100+ watts per channel range are HEAVY, stable, and don't even breath hard at some pretty high levels. The sound quality is really just that much better. It's hard to explain but, if you have say, a violin and a piano playing in unison, I've found that you can hear each instrument as an individual rather than a blend of the 2. The sound is more precise. (IMHO) That's a question for those who have the experience. I can say that the UMC-1 would allow you to trweak the crap out of your sound and source configurations. The used market could get you some higher priced pre-pros but they are for sale for a reason. Usually due to thechnolgy andvances that passed them by. The UMC-1 does not have XLR. The soon to be released XMC-1 will have these. XLR is better for long cable runs but not necessary for short lengths. Personal preference comes into play here and future upgrades or home purchases. (bigger rooms and hidden gear) I'm using the amp section on my Sony POS AVR with the UMC-1 and even with the limitations the Sony has, it's very. very, very, much improved. The design of the UMC-1 has always aimed at sound quality. Even with the original firmware it beat the pants off of the Sony's internals. I can't speak for the Onkyo's sound quality. I think you would hear a marked improvement using it's amp section only. I did with the La Scalas. And I don't have to drive the amp section hard to rattle the walls.. Believe it or not, there are many threads heer at the Klipsch forum that make mention of separates vs all-in-one AVRs. Your best bet is to search adn read, search and read. I was ready to get a Marantz when I found the Emotiva site. I asked questions and paid attention. I'm back to where I was 30 years ago with separates. So many people are willing to share all the details of each option. Ask. I'm not qualified to answer that question. My gut tells me it's a substantial improvement. There are many who have AVRs and swear by them. It's all about what you want and what you want to hear. A plus is that if you don't like what you purchased, there are plenty of people looking for what you want to sell. Either way, take the plunge. Personally, I feel separates give me what I am looking for. But that's just me.

I agree with askbob1 that purchasing one is a good move. If it's not what you expect, the resale value is about 95% - from what I have seen. I couldn't swing a UPA-7 to finish off the HT upgrade so I used the Emo bucks for a few cables and black trim peices. Great quality stuff. Merry Christmas everyone!

Hi Fish, A few months later and I'm still on the fence. You've had the UMC-1 from the beginning, what is your opinion of it now? Hey Cabon Summit, I know you asked Fish but, I promised an update quite a while back and thought this was a good time! I ran my unit pretty much out of the box for 6 months on v5.0 of the firmware. I was very impressed and trweaked here and there where I could. The firmware had bugs and didn't allow EQ settings to be saved. SQ was still really good but basically default. Early November I got an LG BD570 and decided to take a day off and upgrade the firmware. Did a lot of forum searching and document digging to get the latest and greatest instructions. Upgrade went without a hitch. The EQ actually worked!!! Then Lonnie put out a beta version that he called the "Hot Rod" (v7.00.00.5). Upgraded and found the supplied mic for EmoQ was toast. 3 days later, no cost, new mic arrived. All worked. So much for the time line..... Thebeta firmware isn't perfect. But, what a HUGE difference. SQ is now relatively amazing. So much so that I determined that the 12" driver on my Heresy II center was blown. Replaced it. Separation is great The sound quality is is much better. Instruments are clear and crisp. Vocals are what they should be. I used the Eagles DVD as a before and after and the difference is startling. PLIIx, DTS-HD, MCPCM, etc all function great. I prefer PLII x for most everything even CD source material. The SQ is just that good. There are configs for the center channel that really improve the experience. Center Width and Dimension can be adjusted to fit your liking. I ran the EmoQ with the new mic and checked what the algorythms came up with. Speaker distance was right on. However, it told me that 4 of 7 speakers were out of phase. No so. Checked everything and there were no reversals. Others have ignored this weird result. So did I. The crossover points were exactly as I had set them initially. Strange that it set all the slopes to -12db. I'm still deciding if -12 or -24 gives a better sound. The EQ had a few strange results. Probably due to the room not being silent during calibration. A little manual tweaking and all was well. For those that are interested. There are plenty of details on the Emotiva forums to fill in the rest of the blanks. My experience is that EmoQ made up for my lack of tweaking time. It made a big difference in the low end and took the harshness out of the LaScalas - is that possible? The HDMI audio lock on can still be a bit quirky. Some times it's sub-second. Other times it's 5-6 seconds. Very annoying. I've narrowed it down to the LG player. Those using an Oppo aren't complaining. Cahnging video sources is where the time lag mostly exists. Once locked on, solid. This thing is a tweakers dream. There are some features that they could do away with. DSP audio (stadium, hall, club, toilet) are useless to me. Dolby Volume muddies the sound and very few use it. Lonnie has not released the beta firmware as a final version since there are still a couple of areas where little changes need to be made. I'm expecting rock solid performance with the next/last release. For me, the UMC-1 does just what I need it to do without much adjusting. Turn it on and there it is! The WAF is very high also. She loves Pandora and the SQ on this even at 2 channel 44k is great using PLIIx. I hope Fish is having just as much fun! []