Swerv
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Posts posted by Swerv
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Why scratch the Velo SPL1200R off the list?, everyone ive talked to seems to think it would be the most musical of the bunch with still very good performance.
Also I've heard not so good things about the PW2200... I don't know if ill get around listening to one but ill see if I can include it.
SVS is out of the question for me because I wouldnt be able to audition it and I'm interested in something perhaps a little more musical, and dynamic.
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Hey all, thanks for the suggestions...
I have heard good things about the servo15 but it is out of my budget here and I'am not interested in a sub with no warranty.
At the moment it is looking like :
Velodyne SPL-1000R or SPL-1200R (most likely the 12)
Klipsch RSW10d
HSU VTF-3 (newer model?)
Paradigm seismic 10 (depending on price)
Energy 12.3 (apparently this one is good for the money)
My primary concern is palpable, musical bass, that will blend well. The option of the onboard mic/autoroom EQ on the SPL-R series is looking very attractive to me at this point. I really liked the RSW10d but I think I'm looking for a bit more omph in the lower end of the FR.
If anyone has some more detailed or first hand impressions from any of these subs I would be curious to hear about them.
I see you have returned theEAR, did I miss something?
My budget is around $1800 canadian(after taxes,duties,shipped etc). I'll also add that i'd much rather have something new and I live in BC, the vancouver area.
Thanks!
- Ed
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Hi all,
I'm looking at getting a sub in the near future - I'm assembling a sub shortlist at the moment of a few choices I would like to audition. Please mention If you have recomendations or opinions on any of these or one I have overlooked.I'm looking for something to compliment my Boston CR67 bookshelves, my main concern is this sub has to be very musical, and still have enough oomph for those low freq , intense scenes in HT content (cave troll in LOTR1, ice crystals in Titan A.E.,depth charges in u-571 etc..) Let me just say i have the 5.1 ultra set for pc, and was impressed with what the sub did for the money. I'm thinking 10-15 inches, Decent to hefty headroom and output, reasonable low freq response at least to 23-24hz if it can do 20 with some room eq'ing then all the better. the main concern here being it has to keep up in music with bostons. (which extend to about 60 - 65hz ) I now want to step more into the realm of a real subwoofer though. the time for PEECEE sound is over!
(not in any order- also size is not an issue,my price cap is around 1800$ canadian(maybe a little more if its something special)
1. Paradigm Seismic 10/12 - looks very pricey, but I have heard its quite the sub and delivers deep bass performance with authority - unfortunately ive been unable to find a paradigm dealer in vancouver that has these to audition
2. Klipsch RSW 10/12d - Pricey here in canada, but loved for their musical punch and quick dyamics. I have heard the RSW 10 at a local london drugs and was not overly impressed for the money. I'm sure the setup was less than ideal... I wish there was another sub they had to compare it with, but all they had was the RSW-10d, which wasn't in an ideal position the RW-12 to 8, and some Jamo 10inch sub. I liked the RW12 sounded like it had more bottom end at lower volumes, perhaps it was calibrated better than the RSW. If the 12 is really more suited for my tastes I will make an effort to audition one properly. Maybe someone can explain to me what sort of performance i can expect out of the 12, although its quite expensive here in canada.
3.Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus ( cheaper but apparently getting some good reviews on the net from people) Don't know much about this one or where i could listen to it.
4. SVS PB12-plus or similar (do they ship to canada yet? is it worth the hassle?) I would be inclined to look at some of their subs if its still a good bang for buck here up north.
5.Infinity SW-12 (not the most potent or deep sounding but also a fairbit cheaper, has onboard bass managment thats adaptive to rooms, and is comparable to the outlaw according to top nousain's article)*** I've also been recomended to look into the av123 X series,the cambridge Newton Series P1000, the paradigm servo 15 or PDR series, velodyne SPL-R series (1200or 1500) etc.. I don't know very much about these subs... ***
I would like to hear some other recomendations not mentioned as well. So if anyone can enlighten me as to which type of sub would best suit my tastes, and needs for my budget, ill go out an audition what I can.
Thanks in advance!-Ed
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last i heard it was april... available in retailers.
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here are some pictures!
http://ipodstudio.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=3613&size=big&sort=1&cat=all
wow, they look nice!
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I guess it was inevitable
http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000100026525/
Amy could you give us the specs on the sub? Is it a redesigned SWS? Also will there be an option to get these without the dock for say $300? I realize they are targeted for ipod users having the sounddock and all, but they could also serve as a really kick *** 2.1 ultra set that people have been craving for.
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"I doubt if he/she has ever heard anything below about 50Hz.) "
Actually in a small room with "room reinforcements" it can play to a solid 28-29 hz with hardly any loss.(-3dB)
It can also belt out 110dB at 35hz in my room with ease thats also without correction numbers from the radioshak meter. with "room reinforcements"
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Speak of the devil!
Ignorance is bliss.
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"Better sub than me! A B15 takes your Ultra to school You want output,the B15 will smash your toilet paper carboard tube."
Hahahaha classic .
Its funny how many SVS fanboys there are out there. Sure lets give them credit for putting out a product that has excellent performance for the price but give me a break. I'll take an B15 or SW12, watch dog, Theil,paradigm signature 1812, HGS 18 etc etc over an SVS any day, mind you I would need the money for it
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the UFW-10 is probably quite musical but for the price the STF-2 is simply a "better buy"
Paying double for essentially the same performance isn't something I would do. There are plenty of good 10 inch subs out there, some are better than others. And perhaps not everyone is interested in less than 30hz bass, as the majority of the energy in most DVDs LFE channels today revolves around 30hz range for deep bass.
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God I only wish they sold those HSU's here in canada. I would probably pick the STF-2 over the RW-10 as well seing as it would perform better and the quality of bass would probably be very close anyways. My friend must have paid and arm and a leg for his STF-2. I bet its worth it though. Jago what size room do you have it in right now? and whats the usuable limit for the sub? 20Hz or more like 25? either way that thing digs really deep for a single 10inch driver.
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SVS subs could probably drown out alot of speakers except maybe klipschorns lol...
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jago out of curiousity on that list you posted it mentions that the HSU sub is the VTF version, I noticed this one is more expensive... Is there a big difference between the two subs? If not how come the VTF costs quite a bit more.
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After trying about 15-20 differnent units, I bought the panasonic SL-CT800. The main reason? Sound quality. I was above anything I've heard in a portable to date. Sure it wasn't the cheapest, but it came with alot of extras that were nice. It also has flawless skip protection and to this day even while jogging my music has remained uninertupted. Did i mention you can get up to about 100 hours playback on a single charge? I barely EVER have to charge it. I couldn't imagine recommending anything else. BEST money ive ever spent.
PLUS
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extremely good soundquality
very small and light
great skip protection
backlit remote that shows id3 tag info
NiMH rechargable batteries
long long battery life
MINUSES
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remote display scratches easily
can't fastforward through mp3s
headphones that come with it are garbage (I recommend sennheiser mx400/500's)
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Thanks for the replies guys. I have an audigy 1 brand card. I dont have the option of buying more equipment at this point, I could bring the sub out, but if I do it too much its kind of in the way. Yes my meter has been corrected using an excel chart.
I will give it a shot and see if its any better, but I have a feeling I will loose a great deal of output.
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Hi I don't have a fancy setup or anything, I'm just trying to get the most out of what I have on my computer rig.
Here is what I have :
room is 12x11
I have the klipsch promedia ultra 5.1s
ratshack dB meter
spectrum analyzer software/tone generator
with my testing I've come to the conclusion of the following, If I place my sub in the corner ( its a corner desk ) I get the most output accross the board but i get a nasty peak of about 12dB at 55hz, If I place it on a single wall in between 2 corners I get about 6dB peak at that frequency instead with a loss of about 9dB at 80hz and a peak of +6 or more at 110hz makeing for some weird effects. Basically it sounds best without that huge boost at 55hz but I would love to get the most out of this. Can anyone recommend some homemade bass traps or something? I've tried about a dozen placement options in this room and these are the best
I think someone may mention to use an EQ, the problem is when I reduce 50hz, it also reduces everything after that.(winamp, foobar etc) also I dont know of an EQ that will work with all sounds in windows xp.
Anyway If nothing can really be done thats ok I'm wondering if there is something I haven't tried yet that might help even out the FR.
Thanks in advance, Ed
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EAR, damn you, I just picked up a budget 5900xt which does a fair job for $260 canadian. performance is great, and i got a fairly descent 3dmark 2k3 score too. (slightly slower than a radeon 9800pro, on dx9 games but equally fast if not faster on some older games (which i play alot of ) and open gl games for sure - especially when i can oc it to faster than a 5950 ultra with no artifacts!
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update:
Guys ive done what you've all said, tested it over - played back the scene and took a screenshot of when she kicks the cop- this ignorant chump however wants to believe that I changed my argument around completely- thats fine I was after my original argument(trying to support my argument that there is plenty of LFE being sent to the sub during that jump kick"
Saying that there definately is LFE output during the kick and its well below 50hz ( he denys this - and says I took the sound and picture seperately from a different dvd and a different sound source! even after posting this ss)
If one of you could confirm that during that trinity jump scene there is deep bass information being sent to lfe to well below 20hz when she kicks the cop - as indicated here , It might shut the person up once and for all.
please and thank you. I know I was wrong to an extent in saying that the LFE was on for the whole scene, it should have been made more clear as to the exact time I took those Screenies.
THanks for all the replies guys.
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Thats a very good price on the 42s. Ive only heard dynaudio once but i was definately blown away. However do they not require (crave) very expensive electronics? You see I might not be able to get everything all at once, perhaps amp/books first follwed up later by the sub. Maybe since EAR is in montreal, he might know of a good sub for cheap canadian bucks.
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I'm considering a 10-12inch sub for music and HT, will probably start off with some midsized bookshelves, nothing too expensive as I'm on a college budget. I already have a good idea of what I'm after for the books but I have no experience with either the HSU or SVS subs , obviously I know they are very compeditive and offer excellent performance price ratio.
Problem is, you guessed it, I cant audition them anywhere near me that I know of. I was considering entry level SVS and an equally priced HSU, however I'm also open to other bargains, I'm after Slam, precision, palpability and depth ( if thats at all even possible in an sub priced at this range)
Perhaps one of you can guide me in which direction, or maybe the sub Human theEAR has an idea of what I can pick up here in ottawa Canada that might be a good value without breaking my bank.
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btw here is the original SS i took showing the deep bass when she kicks the cop in mid air.
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It appears we were both right to an extent, I was wrong for saying that the whole scene was also in LFE, as well as surround. He was wrong for saying there was no LFE in that scene.
Basically we got our reference standpoints off by about 1 second and we should of been more clear as to the time. The reason I got worked up was because I took the screenshot at the end of the kick when shes still in midair and kicks the cop the FR registers to below 20hz ( which I doubt any surround speakers could reproduce ) with a very powerful tone at 35hz. He was refering to a half a second to a second before that when the camera was spinning around, so I guess we got a bit unclear to the exact time.
Anyway thanks for clearing this up guys.
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I See your point and his point now. It seems we got confused as to which specific parts, as I should of listed the part wherei t his 35 hz is at the very end of the scene right when she kicks him from being up in the air, So i guess technically we are both right. BTW the screenshot I took in spectra plus shows bass down to bellow 20hz. I doubt most surround sound speakers could reproduce this which is Why I got worked up over him saying there is no LFE in that scene.
Thanks for double checking. I'll be more clear next time as to which exact time in the movie I was refering too, I would have included a screenshot of the dvd in the background but it seems the video-overlay would not allow that.
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This guy requested that he be further proved wrong and is not satisfied with the above replies. If more people could provide more info that would help, this is what we have so far:
I think what this ignorant sack wants to believe is that there is no LFE content in that scene which is just ridiculous having talked to about 12 people on msn and on forums. Why in the hell would they send a bass signal 35 strong and extending to below 20hz in ONLY THE SURROUND CHANNELS. Obviously It doesnt make sense and i need someone to confirm it.
here is a link to the thread in the other forum at his request.
Looking into getting a sub here in Canada. Advice wanted!
in Home Theater
Posted
So a little bit of an update... Today I spent my day listening to several different subs in a few shops...
Armed with a copy of Titan A.E(ice crystals & making a planet scene), LOTR 1 (Balin's tomb & Bridge of Kazadun scenes) and a Cd with my own music and sub demo material.
I have narrowed my search somewhat... but I think I'm more confused today after all the auditioning than before I started.
The first Subs I listened too were by REL, model 205 (10 inch sealed 200watt rated) and the 12 inch version which was well over my budget by about 900$cad the 505.
What I learned from the sales person was that REL was definately the featured brand and it seems worshiped by that shop, the salesman took about 30 minutes just to explain why REL uses a custom, proprietary connection for music, basically a cable that goes from the L/R speaker outs on the receiver, to a special connector on the back of the sub. It also has the standard LFE(sub ) input that all subs have for DVD etc. Apparently the claim is that the signal has a delay when used out of the LFE, and that makes the notes appear to linger and not be in perfect harmony with the mains. I asked if it was some sort of a gimmik because I did not believe a word of it.
Anyway I was just listening to what he had to say because he was very polite and even if he was bullshitting he was doing a very convincing job. I put on some music and at first I didnt notice the sub, the mains were $6500 Sonus Faber Towers... not exactly what I would have at home, they sounded lovely ... amazing actually. But I did not notice the presence of the REL he switched it on and off several times during the first session and in some tracks you could tell but it was barely noticable and had almost no presence. I'm not sure if this is how a musical sub is supposed to sound but I wasn't entirely convinced.
A little later on I loaded up the cave troll scene from LOTR, and asked to try the 505 to see if it had more presence. I definately noticed that one , and it was fantastic. The cleanest sounding sub I've probably heard to this date, and it extended low. For LOTR which is quite LFE heavy, especially those scenes. I A/B'd between the 505 and the 205, noticed the 205 had some energy to the 5.1 soundtrack but it was almost like the mains were doing most of the work, still the 205 did an excellent job in matching them and overall I was impressed with the quality of bass I heard, but not the quantity. I played some low freq stuff and looked at the driver. It was moving for sure but I couldnt hear or feel much. He claimed in room response to about 15 hz, I kind of laughed in my head thinking at what dB level.
Well my next audition was the Velodyne SPL1000R which I had very high expectations, and this was my 2nd audition and a more serious one as I had my own selection of tracks and music to play. I put it through its paces... however I will say flat out that I was very very very disappointed with the output this thing had down low. In all honesty I could see that woofer working very very hard to produce the low 20s but I wasnt hearing or feeling any of it. It seemed to roll off very early. Not much better than my cheap Klipsch Ultra sub that is designed for PEE CEE speakers. (maybe im spoiled or my expectations of this little unit were too high?) I will say that for HT it was the best of the bunch I listened too. the FR was not bad, but the notes were not nearly as rythmic, or clean as the REL. It did have one thing going for it. No matter how hard I pushed it I could not hear distortion in fact I could see that as I kept going up on the volume knob of the reciever the Woofer was maxed out but it was still producing a clean signal, a limiter yes... but it seemed to be doing its job really well ... capping the output at its max while maintaining a very distortion free bass. It seemed like the SPL1000 would do well in a very very small room but in anything normal size it would have a hard time pressurising it in the low 20s.
I compared it to the Totem Storm breifly, I liked the totem more for music but for HT the spl1000 definately filled the room with more energy @30hz and up.
Now I left that shop somewhat disappointed and skeptical as to if I should even consider the 1200R after that poor audition.
Next up a serious session with the Klipsch RSW10d (new model with the longthrow driver)
I'm not sure how to put it but this sub is slightly larger than the minute SPL1000, and the RSW10d is rather small. In terms of output and SPL id actually give the edge to the RSW, in the listening room I was in it seemed to love 35 to 45hz and there was a noticable peak there. However It had the most output down low of all the subs I've heard so far. At first I was looking at the front PR while playing some loud passages in the low 20ish hz frequencies and thinking wow thats some decent output and the driver is barely moving. Later I noticed the back driver was moving with hurricane like force. There was some serious serious power here and a very very robust driver with by far the longest travel ive seen in a HT sub to date it looked like 2.5 to maybe even 3 inches. It extended the lowest of the bunch but suffered the same musicality flaws and it was not as rythmic as the REL, but sounded 2nd best of the bunch for music and could compete with the SPL quite well for HT. I think if there was an RSW12d with the same driver I would probably jump on that. however the retailers here dont seem to have the RT10d and RT12d even still they seem to be over my budget and I wonder if they are really a significant improvement over the RSW10d.
Last but not least I stopped by futureshop to see if they had any bookshelf stands on sale to find they just got in a new model of the velodyne (entry level / mid level ).the DLS-5000R is the new model they just got in, and it is a mammoth easily 3 to 4 times the size of all the subs I listened to today... I is also the only ported sub I auditioned. Another thing to note it was not a proper audition they had it on the main open area no walls around other than a pillar and the floor. This unit had serious serious output and depth that matched the RSW10d and a hint of pressurewaves could be felt in the large openish area several meters even from the sub location. I bet in a smaller room this unit would be too much. The problem here is this sub was a joke for music, It sounded like a boombox compared to the other subs I heard today, very disappointing for music but also almost half the price of the others. It had a peak around 45-55hz. From what I could tell this unit had the same type of distortion protection circuitry as in the Velo spl1200R when pushed and pushed and pushed... the output would hit a plateau but not go into bottoming out the driver or clipping the amp, and the bass would remain somewhat clean but not nearly as clean as the Spl1000. I quickly scratched this one off the list but at 999$ CAD It would be fun to have 2 of those just for kicks. I'll have to pass here and hope there is a sub out there that will satisfy my musical taste as well as decent output throughout its range(hopefully to at least 23hz in room or so)
My plans are now to try at home, the RSW10d, the velo1200R and perhaps a paradigm seismic 10 or 12( i think the 12 is out of my range) I have not heard the paradigms yet but if they are regarded as a fantastic value then I will definately find a way to audition them.
For a frame of reference, I might be able to get 15% ish off the RSW10d retail @ $1679CAD. ( so basically get the unit for $1679 after taxes)
The Velodyne SPL1200 I can get for around $1800 after taxes
the REL 205 I can get for around $1800 after taxes
The Paradigm Seismics? im not sure what those can be had for hopefully around 1800ish.
I plan on auditioning the spl1200R tomorrow at a different location and will give an update if I liked it or not.