HornEd
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Posts posted by HornEd
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Nope, Griff & m00n, it wasn't me. The fact that either of the two of you suspected it might be me is indeed a sobering thought. I have elected to not be drawn into such nonsense again. One reason I took an eight month hiatus from this Forum was due to the harassment I received for trying to share my experiences in what I had hoped was a positive way. Upon my return, the questionably informed harangue began anew. I tried to have it diminish without resorting to crass vulgarity... but I did come closer to that than is my nature.
I don't mind differences of opinion, if I did, I would not have posted on this Forum in the first place. I think most folks on this Forum who have read my posts (or have exchanged info with me by email or pm), know that I respect Klipsch, Trey (and so many other Klipsch minions with whom I have had contact) and, in general, the members of this Forum. I respect Keith's right to be on the Forum and have commented many times over the years on his ability to help others find product desired product... and usually at a very good price.
However, my election to not play the "flaming gamey game" was one that came without prompting from official circles... but I was influenced by Forum members who urged me not to reconsider my actions. I am deeply appreciative of those who did. I would hope, one day, that the members of this Forum could allow dissenting opinions to posts, particularly to those of newbies, without having to clear up the notions of a retaliatory harangue that seems sure to follow any HornEd audio approaches. -HornEd
PS: In the meantime, since it looks like I am about to pick up my third set of Khorns I am going to continue with my multi-channel Khorn with Belle Front Effects and a custom designed subterranean subwoofer quietly and without having to defend my concepts on every post. This project is a special test of my extension to the acoustic theories of Mr. Paul and Dr. Toole on the dynamic application of monopoles and deeper diving subs in a multi-channel environment. I thought it might be of interest and be a project that would draw out suggestions from other Forum members. I am hesitant to do so, however, because I do not have the time or inclination for another round of backbiting. H.E.
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... that a sinister doctor had been sniffing RAMPARTs, dehorning the tiniest rams to put them into Bose cubes with a STAPLER... all this while TRESPASING on the CANARY ISLANDS mythical retreat drinking ear Meads of ASPHODEL and lounging on CASHMERE cushions whilst flattening the COTTER PIN that holds the critical Boseroni AcouscousMass together... just then there was an explosion...
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Actually, fini, since I broke my neck a couple of decades ago, I can only sleep for about three hours and then I do some pain management by mental discipline rather than pills... it's my thing! Since I have to be up... I try to get some work done... and, perhaps, a bit of Forum play.
I have a court appearance in the morning with a disgruntled person's nuisance suit... and completed my legal brief for the trial prior to unwinding on the Forum a bit. As you know, I am not an attorney but my business experience (and some law school too) has helped me understand and support my JD colleagues... so I can get back to my DJ frolics.
I was happy to learn this morning that the letter I wrote for an embattled friend caused a major bank in California to alter its policy and restore enough money to his account to buy any of the Northern California Klipschorns recently for sale. And, he got a letter of apology from the bank as well. It's fun to see justice done!
It looks like I will acquire my third set of Khorns for the current project before the week is out. Good luck on finding your corners my friend! -HornED
PS: It's time to get some beauty zzzz's, I can really use them. Talk to your after court.
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----------------On 3/15/2004 6:42:42 AM fini wrote:----------------On 3/15/2004 2:20:12 AM IndyKlipschFan wrote:sold so may cd's to older perverted men??? LOL.----------------Boy, ain't that right! They could have sold even more cds if they'd done a "Make Norah Come" promotional contest (a joint effort between her label and Viagra).----------------
Hmm, let's see, it's a response about "older perverted men"... and the repy features "a joint effort between her" and something to do with Viagra. fini, what are you trying to reveal... beside the wall behind the bookstand?
-HornEd... the made me do it! -
Despite extended detours, mad counts, uncornered Khorns on the loose, and now, percolating tales from the underground... our Songer Saga continues...
... the mysterious lady's purse flew open, spewing all manner of esoteric memorabilia like a pack of puke weed (Yes, genuine LOBELIA by the looks of the cluless expectorating inspectoress at the scene), a photo of a audio pyramid (reputed to be a RICHARD NEUTRA architectural design for a quadrapole Bose surround), a vile of BOTTLED-IN-BONDage hemp oil, a diaTRIBAL excerpt from a 7-letter Forum game post, a CANTILEVERED corkscrew for wine prone couch potatoes, a souvenir scoop of Maple Leaf pommes frites QUEBEC CITY, an ADOBE PhotoShop rendering of a WALLY BYNUM caravan across the Sahara in a double-hump-backed Airstream, a plain wrapped copy of the PSYCHOSEXUAL Aspects of Uncornered Klipschorns by Fini "Dutchman" Cornwall, a Times-Picayune emergency APPROPRIATION clipping from a Preservation Hall amp, a Black Bart Po8 note from PACIFIC COAST HIGHWAYman quarterly featuring the SONG-AND-DANCE routine of Bonnie & Clyde's Pizzicato end, and a soiled vestment from a FARMINGham Mass with the cryptically crewel corner that reads "EREH TPELS ESOB .RD"... "Wholly Plastic Flamingo!" exclaimed the cluless sleuthess, "this is a PERFECT in-the-pink proof that...
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One, two, three, four, five, six, seven,
All good Klipschers go to heaven.
All except one new Klipsch Horner,
fini! Get 'em in the corner!!!
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Under Construction... pending completion of the third set of HornEd Khorns above the fully horn-loaded subterranean subwoofer... (Songer Saga to follow after a BVD brief intermission)
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...cluless had clearly made a far more interesting story of Allan's opportunity, so Allan replied with...
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... some LUMBERJACK left a "memento" in the woods that reminded her vaguely between Limburger lotion and LENTIL soup... gently, she rolled her SUPINE body upon the "memento" over and over... until a passing photog snapped a quick one (did she ever smile!)... and rushed the film to PHOTOMAT... where it was processed by a down-and-out LIV ULLMANN on a 2004 392 hemi Pinto with a HEPPELWHITE fruit stand poking out of the hatchback when a tall, dark, loathsome creature opened his raincoat...
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to the coating on her Blossom Bose speakers, checking the texture she carefull stuck out her tongue and...
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How about a 22 year-old Yamaha G1 golf car... with a bodacious two-cycle gas engine... modified for off road trail work... and 250 acres of redwoods, maples, bays, black walnuts, pines, acacias, firs, and The next project is a multiple train of golf cart size electric cars with electric driven wheels and a battery fed by the lead "engine" that has a gas powered stationary engine driving a very efficient generator. The articulated rubber-tired train will negotiate the windy roads to bring guests to their secluded yurts. -HornEd
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...recycled fuzzy dice... only now the fuzz is in the inside... and, on the outside is...
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That's a great buy, Jordan, on what appear to be a great set of vintage Khorns. Enjoy! -HornEd
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reflects a reliance on the milk of human kindness... where Bose relies on the milking of human wallets in exchange for...
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...it includes insulated spigots to avoid Flannery's cold milk maid's hands and...
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On the other hand... there are four fingers and a thumb... may you rest your case. -HornEd
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...of UNDERSTANDING female DONKEYS in Baywatch Bikinis being lectured by FLANNERY O'CONNER who found it INCOMBENT upon herself to explain to the lightly clad gathering the decorum of proper CROATION cows in a FOUR-BARREL BODICE,
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I have banished my two KLF-C7's to Front Effects Speaker duties on either side of the right and left KLF-30 mains. But when I did use them atop a 65" Mitsubishi RPTV, there was no interference from the C7. Now I have a "HORNizontalizED" KLF-30 atop the Mitsubishi without any distortion problems whatsoever.
However, if I allow any of the front array KLF-30's to be closer to the sweet spot than the big Mitsu screen is... instant "rainbows" appear. Just my two C7 cents worth. -HornEd
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Wow, Jordan, they look "swellegant!" Oh, yeah, and fini, see how Tim has put them in the corners of his room... you should try it no matter how proud you are of your newly dusted horns.
Now, Jordan, grab those babies and tuck 'em in the corner... don't be like fini and wait to build 4" thick Plexiglas false corners so he can visually feed his "Hornucopia of Sound" fetish.
Really good horns are hard to find... the guts can be restored for a price... but being assured that the veneer will be that gorgeous comes from raising the extra $500 that you (and your significant other) will never regret. -HornEd
PS: Ah the nostalgia of it all... next April 12th will make three years of posting on the Klipsch Forum. And those vintage '67 Khorns are only about 17 years younger than my first used Klipschorn which I acquired in 1954. There's a lot to be said for that vintage... as Mr. Paul's long-term friend, Tony Reed, will surely agree.
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Well, colterphoto1, a brief visit to your hometown Klipsch audio museum will reveal that you were close WDST = Wide Dispersion Surround Technology. This Klipsch version of a tripole (single cabinet with speakers aimed in three different directions) uses a small woofer limited to frequencies under about 2kHz to be aimed at the audience (this direct radiated sound gives the first clue to your ear in order to determine direction and timbre from the subsequent reflected clues), and two angled horns that distribute frequencies over 2kHz toward the front/middle and rear/middle of your listening area (but were not intended to be aimed at your ear so that only reflected sounds reach your ear that is what causes your ear to tell your brain your immersed in sound there is no first sound then multiple reflections to tell you the truth that the audio engineer intended).
Whew, thats a long sentence but it does embody insights into the WDST which seems to have been a technology aimed at doing a better job at beefing wimpy ProLogic narrow bandwidth surround signals to create more ambience from weak surround signals and this approach has lingered on in the discrete full-range surround channels to be found on 5.1 or 6.1 DVD technologies. In many awkward acoustic environments, the Klipsch WDST approach covers room and equipment shortfalls (such as timbre mismatches, early reflections, etc.) with an audio band-aid that some folks enjoy but that truly represents a forced corruption of the sound intended by modern mixes of DVD programming.
You see, with full range channels, the audio engineer can mix as much ambience as the given DVD needs by stacking specific audio tracks in one or more of the discrete 5-6.1 channels to make the sound broadcast by monopoles to be a lone clear tone or a cacophony of sound radiated from every loudspeaker or any combination between the two. Thus, all things being equal, monopoles on side and rear effects speakers (surrounds) have the flexibility to recreate the audio engineers intent and multiple pole speakers force frequencies to bounce around the room to confuse the natural process of discerning timbre and direction. Even if you accept this as the audio version of rose colored glasses the sound you hear is less natural than what the audio engineer anticipated.
Generally speaking, early reflections distort the intent of the audio engineer and are eliminated in serious home theaters by physically removing them or, more likely, covering them with a sound absorbent material. Basically, the purest sound comes from a clean direct signal to the ear and reflected signals that arrive later but at near the same instant. Your ear can distinguish an incredible range of comparisons in a very short time span but there must be sufficient time before the first direct sound and secondary reflections to make a determination multiple pole speakers are designed to reduce or eliminate that gap in one or more frequency ranges.
Similarly, very long bass waves are too long for the ear to process for direction subwoofer waves can stretch out more than 35 feet and bump into one another causing standing waves that can be perceived as nulls (canceling one another out) or doubling the sound (reinforcing one another) in the same room. Thus, sounds under about 85 Hz cannot be distinguished by the ear as coming from a particular direction. Some audio mavericks (such as HornEd) deliberately cut off their 5.1 (or above) monopoles at this place where directional discernment drops off and recreates that entire range with a subwoofer array designed to produce these long waves.
This technique accomplishes two purposes it puts fewer but more accurate long waves into the listening area to simplify adjustment of most standing wave problems and allows the woofers of the monopoles to be quicker in the midrange musical areas due to the absence of slower long throws needed to push enough air to create those long super low frequencies. Clearly, anyone who uses this technique needs an adequate subwoofer array and that means hitting 121.5 dB at 20 Hz which is the low cutoff point for Dolby Digital DVDs and the minimum standard for a HornEd subwoofer array.
Of course, multiple subwoofers strategically placed can also eliminate or greatly reduce standing wave problems. In fact, a stealth factor on modern nuclear submarines include powerful subwoofers designed to negate (e.g., hide) the low frequencies caused in the engine room. I have used as many as six quality subwoofers in the quest for better bottom scraping bass and have fairly well settled on stacked woofers in the same corner to get the job done effectively and with the least amount of hassle.
Putting subwoofers in a corner doubles their power stacking two adequate subs in the same corner quadruples the power of one sub keeps the long, longer, longest waves marching in order from the same direction (and, usually, in phase for the best result but thats a choice/room thing). Getting adequate performance out of a single sub is indeed possible but beyond the audio budget of most audiophiles and only the most dedicated basophile, such as TheEar(s) or the SubHuman (Tom Vodhanel), live their lives at the bottom of that deep audio well.
As to the height of surround speakers, I favor aiming the surrounds just behind and just over the head of your most significant listener in the center of the sweet spot. Ideally, the surrounds will be aimed flat against the opposite wall to aid in the efficient determination of your ear to distinguish initial sounds and appropriate reflections of those sounds from the opposite wall. This gets the maximum ambience benefit to be found in most listening environments and is consistent with the mainstream of modern sound mixing techniques IMHO. Theoretically, a perfectly mixed 6.1 DVD would be complete in its ambience creation within the six main audio and supplementary low bass channel that a room without reflections would suffice.
Add to this the reality that modern DVDs put upwards of 75% of the total sound of movies through the middle speaker (to anchor the sound to screen action) while music CDs pour most of the sound to the right and left channels to simulate a stage presentation. Thus better Home Theater and Music installations will have identical speakers across the front array yep, thats right, the left, center and right main speakers should be of equal quality. Klipsch should be applauded for making the RC-7 closer to the RF-7 than most but once you try a great DVD with a three RF-7s in a front array, you will be hard pressed to return to a lesser mode! Further, once you try a full out 7.1 all RF-7 system properly set up any local movie theater will pale in comparison with your sound!
The same sound principles apply with every quality sound system whether it is based on the Klipsch Synergy line or the best that Heritage loudspeakers have to offer. I have personally set up those extremes in my own listening areas and have helped uncounted numbers of Klipsch Forum folk to set up their systems using these guidelines. I have yet to have anyone follow my guidelines (including setting up their monopoles with an Avia disc and a Radio Shack SPL meter) complain that their sound system was worse. Most of the flack that I get are from people who have bought WDST or dipole speakers and have never heard a properly set up monopole system.
Well, folks, it has been a long time since Ive been this comprehensive (err long winded?), but the shorter explanations that I have given (after being away from this Forum for about eight months) have flooded me with email, pms, and Forum questions from those new to the Klipsch Forum.
Please note that sharing my thoughts is done in order to save others from having to spend as much time and money in the research and development of audio experiments. These represent my personal opinions of what I and others have learned from those experiments. They are not brag but just fact as close as I can determine. I have no quarrel with those who quarrel with my conclusions this is a place where we should all be able to express our audio views within the taste parameters of the Klipsch personnel that monitor this Forum.
I do not appreciate those who make personal attacks upon me or anyone else for posting an opinion whether I consider that opinion well informed or off the wall. These long explanations irritate some folks but they are made in the spirit of Paul W. Klipsch and his penchant for discovering truth where he found it and passing out yellow BS buttons if he suspected less than accurate assessments. He would have been a century old now and he is sorely missed in many ways. Mr. Paul was bold enough to fold a horn into a corner and produce a patented monaural symphonic sound in the original Klipschorn.
When stereo hit the marketplace, Mr. Paul used two Klipschorns and (after learning of Bell Labs approach to three channel stereo) invented the LaScala to be a horn-loaded center that didnt need a corner. The first Mrs. Klipsch (Belle) found the LaScala to be beneath her furnishing tastes and Mr. Paul responded with a modified version which he named after his wife (Belle Klipsch) and successfully transcended the first known Klipsch WAF (Wife Approval Factor). After becoming a widower, Mr. Paul found Miss Valerie in a Hope (AR) high school and found the perfect WAF and they lived happily ever after with a Klipschorn, Belle, Klipschorn front array.
There have been a lot of audio engineering changes since 1948 but the Klipschorn, LaScala, and Klipsch Belle are still being assembled in the Hope factory. .. even though Uncle Fred brought the HQ to Indy. The consumer trend is for smaller loudspeakers and audiophile rather than natural sound. The best selling speakers, Bose, makes a travesty of both approaches, IMHO. Tricked up approaches to Home Theaters (e.g., ProLogic and its declining successor THX} are not my example of a good audio time weather in multi-channel music or DVD movies. I dont care to bathe my ears in a dense dipole fog no matter what the audio engineer mixed for me to hear.
Fortune has smiled upon my labors and I have the resources to build big enough rooms and populate them fully loaded horn speakers. I realize that not everyone can do that in this day and age but I have used these techniques to make great sound in a 240 sq. ft. motorhome using the Klipsch Synergy line the lowest end of the Klipsch full-range speaker spectrum and I have used WDST to cure some of the acoustic problems of such a small and cabinet crowded space. I hope my audio adventures bring more Klipsch audio quality into your life. HornEd
PS: This post will likely get the usual blast from my habitual detractors and I have chosen not to respond to them to preserve the civility and family acceptable prose that ought to be maintained on this Forum. If such rhetoric does appear, please consider the source. Peace, Love, Monopoles and adequacy of Centers and Subwoofers to all... and a healthy WDST to those who come up short in their listening environment.
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from the RITA MAE BROWN NoBull Home for Wayward Cow Cows where Clipped & Shorn promptly clipped the bull's nether parts and shorn the bull horn with a rusty NINE-IRON he had EXHUMEd from the Hudson River ruins in the median of the SAW MILL RIVER PARKWAY suddenly, C&S dropped his STRAINER as in the sand he found a CARTOUCHE of Nefertiti in a sand bunker fixing TANDOORI seagull on the blade of the Nile Niblick proving the Egg Harbor Scots and Hudson & Ganges Indians had named their tube rolling teams after icons found on the big sandy beach of...
OT: Whew, with Allan's input and a cluless incentive, there's no telling where a seven word project may grow...
actually I had to take a bathroom break... I'm building it next to the new pool & spa. -HornEdPS: cluless, I regret missing the opportunity to post when you were "live" on the Forum. Really, clu, your such a purrfectly good egg... and I even harbor fond thoughts of saber tooth less! Maybe it's a residual warm fuzzy Afghan thing... or just a WDST state of mind. But, thanks for being there!
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...in which she takes the essence of ripe road kill ARMADILLO and blends it with chewing tobacco to form an ADHESIVE so impoverished former BROOKLYN DODGERS could earn minimum wage while sealing envelopes in the latest KARL ROVE drive to supply MISSIONARY position information to conservative CABRIOLE carvers who want to get a "leg" up on...
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...MINISCULE Evinrude outboards CERTIFIED for use on the HUDSON BAY EXPRESS Carnival Cruise ship where on the poop deck the max sax of BOOTS RANDOLPH blows the DAMASK cover off HornEd's former Puerto Rican mother-in-law's SANTERIA magic kit... so she cast her favorite spell...
OT: Hey, I just can't split Boots Randolph's name for a game for a game, nan... Yakety Sax would haunt my memory day and night... forever. I've been digging jazz since the early 50's... did the Hungry I and the Purple Onion in San Francisco for as long as they were hot. Also lived in Paris and dug the expatriate American jazz musician scene. That's where I fell in love with a beautiful Puerto Rican from Ponce... and that's where I spent two decades of my life. Oh, yeah, I bought a three bedroom home for my mother-in-law... there's no way she's gonna cast a spell on this boy. -HornEd
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Yep, Ed would consider some reasonable Walnut Khorns for GullahIsland's fine Walnut Belles. This kind of cooperation might make GullahIsland a Vintage Klipsch Resort & Trading Post. I can vouch for the hospitality. -HornEd
-HornEd... the 
made me do it!
actually I had to take a bathroom break... I'm building it next to the new pool & spa. -HornEd
Attacks must stop!!!
in 2-Channel Home Audio
Posted
Wow, maybe anarchy works! An eloquent gesture just before St. Paddy's Day. We are a cyber community... and like any community we are subject to the decay that happens when less than "self-restrained anarchy" prevails. To have a Klipsch employee censor every post made before it can appear is not a realistic approach. This Forum exists at the pleasure of Klipsch... and we will lose a great resource if it doesn't continue to be a pleasure where it counts most.
Klipsch is to be commended for permitting as much "well meaning anarchy" as they do... and, generally, Forum members need to be complemented on the "less flames per 1,000 posts" category... at least compared to other audio forums.
Personally, I don't have a problem with OT (Off Topic) posts especially when non-audio threads occur in the General Category. Finding out more about the people who post gives the Forum more depth and meaning... and also increases the likelihood of having better buying and selling opportunities between Forum friends.
As an aside, I would like the opportunity to filter out all the ProMedia topics on Today's Posts and have ProMedia folks filter out mainstream Klipsch topics if that is their wish... but that is a small consequence.
On the other hand, it is not fun to know that if you share your audio concepts with a newbie or old timer that you are likely to get the same heat from the same malcontent bent on making personally abusive remarks at every turn. It turned me off on this Forum before... and may turn me off of this Forum again. However, I cannot hold my favorite speaker company responsible for any Forum member's abusive mind set... but I do appreciate the willingness of Klipsch moderators to take drastic action when we Forum members allow ourselves to get so far out of control. -HornEd,
RFAR (Recovering Flaming Audio Rhetoretician)