USparc
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Posts posted by USparc
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quote:Originally posted by HornEd:Well, hopefully the Guild Halls are still standing and the Mannekin Pis is still flowing... and a few stalwart young men are bravely bringing horn culture to Belgium. It is a beautiful country and deserves beautiful "up-front" sound. -HornED
Hey, thx HornED!!
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NOZ,
put some havy weight on the CD-player.
I did that ones for my pioneer DVD-player.
I put a granite plate of 20lbs on it.
Then it didn't move when I pushed on the eject button.
If it would stop the skipping when playing loud ...???
Are the foundations of your house still in good condition???
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Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS
DVD: Pioneer DV-525
Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection
Front: RF-3 tFTP
Rear: RF-3 tFTP
Center: RC-3 tFTP
SubW: KSW-12
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quote:Originally posted by HornEd:PS: Did you catch the Klipsch Exposition at the Brussels World's Fair a few decades ago?
Unfortunatly no, It is only a few years back when my wings got klipsched. Klipsch is not very popular here in Belgium. The only dealer I know is A.E.D also listed here on the klipsch site.
A few decades ago?? I'm 24 years old!!
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quote:
Originally posted by crash827:Uh,In the words of PWK, Bullshit. I watched The Matrix again yesterday. I watched the lobby scene two times and at very high volumes. Listening to shell casings dropping and scattering, listening to gun fire emanating from various places in the room, listening to guns sliding across the floor in different directions...none of it 'lost in space.'
See, you missed it. (not to be offensive here)
It is not the lobby scene I was refering to. I 'm sure it was overwhelming with WDST's/dipoles.
It is the roof scene where Neo tries to dodge the bullets when the agent shoots at him. You hear te first bullet leave the gun from the center going to your left to pass you on the left and go further behind you on the left on a straight line just as Neo would have heared it.
quote:
Originally posted by crash827:Horn speakers have a very specific and tight dispersion pattern - read PWK or any of the Klipsch literature for the last decade - it does not lend itself well to ambient effects without processor intervention. In fact, I can step 1ft to the right of any Klipsch speaker and the volume drops out the window. Fact of life.
Are U sure U are talking about WDST's/dipoles??
What would be the use of dipoles if they would act like monopoles??
quote:
Originally posted by crash827:I don't know what processing equipment you have - although HornEd has a Yamaha - but your opinions appeared to be partially mired in the limitations of your processor. The Yamaha is not well-suited to WDTS, KSP-C6's, dipoles, or bipoles. You are not able to set the delays to proper levels, you are not able to specify speaker distances, and you are not able to specify 'type' of speaker. The processing should occur in the processor and if you spend enough money and select an appropriate, feature-rich processor (which specifically addresses speaker types), you will find WDST's/dipoles/KSP C6's to be every bit as effective as your processors time-delayed/phase manipulated use of direct speakers.
Oeps, did I mention that there is something wrong with my system without WDST's/dipoles? I don't think so. In fact I think that the soundtrack and the little processing (just the distance corrections, the speaker levels as in any HT) that my pioneer does creates a good environment in movies like it is meant to be(not forced by WDST's/dipoles).
I thougth that WDST's/dipoles would limit the processing of the sound by mechanical introducing ambient sound?? So that is two times you manipulate with the original source of the sound. First manipulate the sound (processing) to let the WDST's/dipoles sound good??? Indeed WDST's/dipoles are hard to match the other speakers.
Moreover, WDST's/dipoles are not that much dependend of the processing of the sound than their placement.
Big issue is definitly the placement of such speakers!!
quote:
Originally posted by crash827:One other point. The KSP C6 is the same speaker as the KSP400's less the subwoofer, which is crossed-over at 80hz. The size of the cabinet does not make it weaker or stronger. I believe the same is true of the RC7 vs. the RF7's. Since you are employing 80hz cross-overs if following THX specs, it is overkill and useless to place a full size tower capable of 30hz in the center. It may look cool but you aren't using the 'stronger' part of the speaker so what did it buy you?
Well indeed, it looks cool. If I could the center was also an RF-3(maybe I will do the same as HornEd did).
Three reason to go with full size towers:
1. I don't like speakers hanging at walls.(IMHO)
2. Bookshelf speakers needs stands. The footprint is the same as is the total price.
3. Don't think speakers have to do much less when cut-off at 80Hz!!
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Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS
DVD: Pioneer DV-525
Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection
Front: RF-3 tFTP
Rear: RF-3 tFTP
Center: RC-3 tFTP
SubW: KSW-12
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lynnm,
You have some points there, but still ...
First the longest wire (the wire from cross-over to the horn) is is about 40" long. The shortest (Woof 1) is about 20" long. It is a big speaker so longer wires are required. I understand klipsch to use such a cable. If they would use good expensive wire the speaker would dubbel in prise. Indeed the little quality improvement would not justify that extra price.
Second, I noticed that the wire length in the different speakers (my 4 RF-3's) differ for all the drivers from 0 to 10". (not a big issue)
Third, All the wires that are poorly shielded are running together which makes them vulnerable for cross-talk and other external influences.
I can tell you when I listened to the first rewired RF-3's I was impressed hearing a difference.
The highs, the mids , the lows, not as much as the external cable did but still it was noticeable.
You are right that the external wires (running to the amp)are more important.
So I end up rewiring all my reference speakers!!
I'm happy with it even if it wouldn't make a difference in the sound quality. All wires same length, a good thickness, good shielded. It are just the little things. I just couldn't handle the fact that their is a potential weakest link in the connection of my speakers, just because of that flimsy internal wire of the speakers!!
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quote:
Originally posted by HornEd:Remember, if you dump enough dirt in a big valley of hills and dales you will get a plain... and that's what happens when mechanically enhanced ambient sound overwhelms the localized sound mixed into the original sound source... IMHO.-HornED
Wow, I couldn't said it better. Nice resemblance HornED!!
I'm going to try it from a more practical point of view. I take the movie "The Matrix" as test sample.
Yep, the scene on the roof when the bullets are slowed down. You hear (some of us) the bullet(the one going to the left) passing you and go behind you (all on the left). With dipoles (or whatever non monopole speaker) Where is the bullet gone?? Yep, Lost in space!
Then the camera turns around Neo and you can even hear the agent firing from the rear right. Did you all hear that to??
Dipoles are indeed used to virtually create more speakers to give more environment feeling to live up the "wow" factor, but at what cost.
If you know what a 2 channel system can bring you, the placing of all the instruments in the 3 dimension,... . It is all in the soundtrack. Don't mess with it and enjoy it like it is meant to be.
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Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS
DVD: Pioneer DV-525
Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection
Front: RF-3 tFTP
Rear: RF-3 tFTP
Center: RC-3 tFTP
SubW: KSW-12
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I have a Thomson 46" RPTV.
I can watch to it like a normal TV in daylight.
I recently watched a complete football game.
No, the brightness and contrast are not pushed way up.
They are even below the mid value.
The horizontal angle is 160, so no problem at all.
The vertical angle is much less, but not that important.
The picture quality is as good as a normal TV (even better!!). Yep, just bigger so you see more.
I even think if you would enlarge the picture of a normal TV you would be surprised what is left of the convergence and the geometry!! Take a closer look at your TV and you will see it. An RPTV has even the option to adjust that if necessary!!
The size. For an RPTV at least 43". I don't think you will find them under 43". RPTV are just there to extend the TV's in size. It is not feasible to make such a large tube.
Just... I wouldn't trade my Thomson for any normal TV. If I have the "opportunity" to see a normal TV playing I always think by myself: How the hell can you watch at such a tiny little thing. You are missing more than half of what is going on.
Moreover, my eyes are not getting tired as with a normal TV.
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Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS
DVD: Pioneer DV-525
Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection
Front: RF-3 tFTP
Rear: RF-3 tFTP
Center: RC-3 tFTP
SubW: KSW-12
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jhawk92,
It is just a minor issue, but you should check while buying a new receiver with klipsch speakers.
My Pioneer goes from -80dB up to +12dB.
From ---dB(no Sound) to -80dB I have to put my ear in the horn of my RF-3's to hear some wispering. From that point it goes very smooth up. At -60dB you will hear a background music that can IMO already be to loud in some occasions. If I compare other receivers with the pioneer they don't have the range from -80 to -60 dB. The receiver is not al the way responsible for this, it also depends on the input source.
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Good remark Colin.
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Aha, a few strong beers! Westmalle??
But in that case you wouldn't hear the difference.
Just after a few hours it will come back to you.
change polarity, no harm done.
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nice speech HornEd !!!
SteveB, read it carefully!!
quote:I am going from tower surrounds to these and I am not quite sure where to place these new dipoles.
If you have the place for towers stick with towers.
Yep, where do you place the RS-7. It is more difficult to place RS-7's then extra RF-7's if you have the place.
Also THX is going to the monopole speakers. Creating the right environment is the task of the receiver or better the soundtrack itself!!
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Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS
DVD: Pioneer DV-525
Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection
Front: RF-3 tFTP
Rear: RF-3 tFTP
Center: RC-3 tFTP
SubW: KSW-12
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Denon's and onkyo's are very good. A like pioneer with my RF-3 over those two. It has a good control with their MOSFET's.
If you want to stretch it some more you can check out the new marantz SR-9200. Have heared several times it is better than the denon AVR 5803 in sound quality and features for less $!!
For the onkyo's, watch out for the fan noise!!
Also check how loud the lowest volume setting is. The denon's and in minor the onkyo's still play to loud at their lowest volume setting specially with klipsch speakers!! (just for some background music!!)
Yeh, connect your PC via an optical link to your receiver and enjoy the sound quality. You can even sent an ac-3 or dts bit stream to your receiver, depending on your sound-card. I have the fortissimo II(it has direct optical in/out-puts).
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Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS
DVD: Pioneer DV-525
Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection
Front: RF-3 tFTP
Rear: RF-3 tFTP
Center: RC-3 tFTP
SubW: KSW-12
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greengiant,
nice receiver,It will definitly be happy with the reference line and set you up for HT to!!
You have to get a DVD player to.(a pioneer of course)
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Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS
DVD: Pioneer DV-525
Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection
Front: RF-3 tFTP
Rear: RF-3 tFTP
Center: RC-3 tFTP
SubW: KSW-12
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It is hard to make a mistake. All is indicated well on the cross-over of the RF-3. Take your time and check every connection.
I looked up my post of the RF-3 tweaked:
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I did the rewiring myself with FTP cable.
See my post in "odds and mods" (Sorry, but the pictures are removed)
And yes it will be worth it. Not only for the sound quality but also for a good feeling, knowing that there are no flimsy cables inside those beauties.
Yep, about the warranty? What could happen to the RF-3. What is in that 5 year warranty? Would you get a new tweeter if you blow one?? I don't think so.
Just check your speakers. If they are healty now they will be for ever if you handle them with care.
If something happens after a few years it will unlikely be covered by the warranty.
Like stated in the Klipsch warranty:
This Warranty does not cover cosmetic damage or damage due to misuse, abuse, negligence, acts of God, accident, commercial use or modification of, or to any part of, the product. This Warranty does not cover damage due to improper operation, maintenance or installation, or attempted repair by anyone other than KLIPSCH or a KLIPSCH dealer which is authorized to do KLIPSCH warranty work. Any unauthorized repairs will void this Warranty. This Warranty does not cover product sold AS IS or WITH ALL FAULTS.
REPAIRS OR REPLACEMENTS AS PROVIDED UNDER THIS WARRANTY ARE THE EXCLUSIVE REMEDY OF THE CONSUMER. KLIPSCH SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES FOR BREACH OF ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTY ON THIS PRODUCT. EXCEPT TO THE EXTENT PROHIBITED BY LAW, THIS WARRANTY IS EXCLUSIVE AND IN LIEU OF ALL OTHER EXPRESS AND IMPLIED WARRANTIES WHATSOEVER, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PRACTICAL PURPOSE.
"acts of God" LOL LOL LOL LOL HAHAHAAAAHOHOHO
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Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS
DVD: Pioneer DV-525
Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection
Front: RF-3 tFTP
Rear: RF-3 tFTP
Center: RC-3 tFTP
SubW: KSW-12
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Moon,
That is also a good way to set the levels.
But now the 0dB on your receiver does not have a meaning.
My receiver is ultra THX certified. When going into the setup mode for the level settings it first goes automatic to the 0dB master volume. Then it plays the test tone. Now I can set all speakers to the 75dB. So the 75dB is referenced by the 0dB on the receiver.
What was the master volume when the center hits the 75 dB? Well that XdB is your THX reference volume.
It is all relative, but the result must be the same.
So to get THX reference level I have to set my receiver to 0dB, you have to set your receiver to XdB.
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Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS
DVD: Pioneer DV-525
Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection
Front: RF-3 tFTP
Rear: RF-3 tFTP
Center: RC-3 tFTP
SubW: KSW-12
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dts/dolby digital.
All are just subjective differences. Both formats are quality wise very good. Only dolby uses less space, so probably more efficient??
Home cinema choice:
With all things being equal in the preparation of the source masters, the huge differences reported between DTS and Dolby Digital essentially disappear. The remaining comparison of the two technologies shows that Dolby Digital not only equals DTS, but in fact outperforms it. Even though DTS uses a higher data rate than Dolby Digital, greater sophistication and efficiency gives Dolby Digital superior sound quality.
Sound&Vision:
So is Dolby Digital better than DTS? No. I merely preferred Dolby Digital over DTS under these particular conditions. (Did the cold New York City weather in February play havoc with my delicate Miami temperament?) My tentative conclusion is that the differences are relatively small. In some ways, that's disappointing because DTS has been touted as sounding superior. On the other hand, the outcome of this test has increased my respect for Dolby Digital. It works really well for both multichannel movie soundtracks and music.
To read the full story: http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/SoundAndVision/FrameSet/0,1670,_sl_SoundAndVision_sl_Article_sl_0_cm_1653_cm_130_2352_1_cm_00,00.html
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Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS
DVD: Pioneer DV-525
Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection
Front: RF-3 tFTP
Rear: RF-3 tFTP
Center: RC-3 tFTP
SubW: KSW-12
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BobG,
I checked their website. It is number 72 of the magazine. Maybe I will check it out, but I rather see good reviews of the RF-3's.
Just ... why the info BobG???
Boa, you are right on the sub. The receiver subwoofer level is +6 now. It wakes up very quick!! The KSW-12 is on level 6. Can't you play with this volume control to get the sub level right?? What is the level on your sub??
Btw. The 75dB problem you have is not due to THX.
It's your receiver. You can settle for -XdB for your 75dB reference point. So you know that -XdB is the THX reference level. You do that already with your 85dB reference point. It is just the way you look at it. It is all relative!!! (I get also 85dB when the receiver is at 0dB with the test tone, so the level for my fronts are -10dB to get the 75dB at 0dB receiver volume). The THX reference volume is on your receiver -10dB. right??
Oeps you can't control the volume of the test tones.
Are you sure?? I thought that to with my receiver. In setup mode it goes right to the 0dB (automatic) and then plays the test tones. I couldn't change the volume with the remote. It took me a while to realize that the remote is in setup mode so the +/- buttons don't work. But there is a big volume control on the receiver itself.
That is the way to change the pink noise level on my receiver. (maybe you did this already ...)It really doesn't matter as long as you know what the THX reference volume is on your receiver.
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Yep, I got it
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I'm surprised by this!!!
It depends on the receiver, but with the sensitivity of your speakers I would expect negative numbers here for the level setting of each speaker?
Just to be sure:
You have two volume controls.
The master volume of the receiver is during the level test always at 0dB. Then each speaker is tested seperately with the pink noise. The level of that speaker is adjusted with the SPL meter to 75 dB.
(I expect that one RF-7's@102dB would give you SPL of almost 90 dB at master volume of 0dB when no levels are adjusted!!!)
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Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS
DVD: Pioneer DV-525
Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection
Front: RF-3 tFTP
Rear: RF-3 tFTP
Center: RC-3 tFTP
SubW: KSW-12
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eq_shadimar,
Yep, my 4:3 RPTV has a 16:9 setting.
So when setting the DVD on 16:9 picture output and also the RPTV the picture is compressed. So all information is back in the 16:9 format. Some will complain if you do that because a test rgb line will apear above the picture. After a few minutes it is gone.
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Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS
DVD: Pioneer DV-525
Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection
Front: RF-3 tFTP
Rear: RF-3 tFTP
Center: RC-3 tFTP
SubW: KSW-12
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Yep ShapeShifter,
bacevedo gave a good explanation. The same as I did in an other thread of moon.
Moon,
When I am "home alone" the receiver goes to 0dB.
I watched Gladiator all the way at THX reference.
At 0dB I got peaks of a close 118 dB!!!
With the pod race in star wars I got close to 120dB (peaks)!!
Ok, tFTP stands for triple FOILED TWISTED PAIR (cat 5 cable). Yes, I changed the internal wires of my RF-3's (and RC-3) with 3 FTP cables. Also my external cables are braided FTP cables. I have posted a few threads on this a wile ago in "odds and mods".
You said "I was impressed at -25db".
Did you changed the level settings on your receiver in that way that at 0dB(on the receiver) you get 75dB from each speaker like bacevedo explaned!!
the negative numbers are a logical choice since it means that your are playing XdB below the reference level. It is all a relative indication. THX defined a reference point with the 75dB.
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Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS
DVD: Pioneer DV-525
Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection
Front: RF-3 tFTP
Rear: RF-3 tFTP
Center: RC-3 tFTP
SubW: KSW-12
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quote:Originally posted by HornEd:More is lost from viewing 16:9 based material on a 4:3 screen than the reverse.
Nothing is lost when viewing 16:9 material on a 4:3 TV. The picture is just "smaller" in the hight!!
Smaller, ahm. My 46" RPTV gives a larger 16:9 then some 16:9 RPTV's. The picture has still the same ratio!!
The other way: What tricks does a 16:9 tv to get a 4:3 picture to 16:9 !! It is just awful.
Even some DVD's are in 2.35:1. How is that displayed on a 16:9 TV!!
We will see over 4 years what the standard is!!
Will it be 16:9 or something new???
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Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS
DVD: Pioneer DV-525
Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection
Front: RF-3 tFTP
Rear: RF-3 tFTP
Center: RC-3 tFTP
SubW: KSW-12
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Hey moon,
give me the pod race in Star Wars The Phantom Menance!!!
... Start the ENGINES (at THX reference level)
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Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS
DVD: Pioneer DV-525
Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection
Front: RF-3 tFTP
Rear: RF-3 tFTP
Center: RC-3 tFTP
SubW: KSW-12
Denons hiss?
in Home Theater
Posted
KAiN64,
Did you check out the new marantz SR-9200??
It is a beauty. I know someone who went with it over the AVC-A1SE®. Well, he was about to upgrade to a AVC-A1SR but he did checked out the marantz and bought it. It is cheaper than the denon but the sound is so much better he claims. (and I believe him)It also has a built in tuner.
About hiss with klipsch speakers, I can't tell because he has the B&W nautilus 803's.
hissing denon's??? this is already a possible alternative.
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Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS
DVD: Pioneer DV-525
Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection
Front: RF-3 tFTP
Rear: RF-3 tFTP
Center: RC-3 tFTP
SubW: KSW-12