fire pinch

L'oreille, Well at 20 Hz as indicated previously in my tread, I can get 115 dB at the listening position and in a room corner, I have a 3 dB boost in most frequencies. This is a place I could sit in but it would be too near the door. So I guess that Im near the 120 at 20 Hz, even if its unbeleivable But sure, I cant get 120 dB at 16 Hz LOL, only in my dreams! I will try to figure out another sub placement to get that 3 dB boost at the listening position. Dunno if this will be possible, maybe not, figure Some may underestimate really much that woofer because of its price... a wrong thought

---------------- On 8/29/2003 12:01:41 AM BLOOMIS914 wrote: Around 16-18Hz, in excess of 120dB there is no real noise/bass to speak of..... ---------------- How did you get even near 120 dB around 16-18 Hz??? I wish I could do this with my Tempest but I can't! What is the size of the room? I simply can't have this kind of huge power and Im in my small room -> 1500 cubic ft. If you say true, then I have some problems. If you compare your design to mine, we should be really close each others around 16-18 Hz (a fraction of a dB) and notice that I have a 300W amp instead of a 250W. So the only factor I see is my sub placement!!! Would it be placed this badly? Yesterday, I recorded 3 more dBs when I moved in the back-right corner of my room. Actualy, Im sit between the right and the left corner of my room, along the back wall. So I guess that I should try another location for my Tempest if I saw that I can gain 3 dBs at that place Still, even if I add 3 more dBs to my maximum SPL results, I cant touch 120 dB around 16 and 18 Hz!!! omg...

Formica, So much questions but I have the time now to answer them This was with the big piece of furniture... I really didnt find another place yet for it. But for a performance aspect, I know that by placing that piece of **** !!! anywhere else, I would gain 1 or 2 more dBs. My room is the bedroom so the bed was there too I had a chance to test the Hsu VTF-3 in the EXACTLY same place, but this time is like 6 months ago so I dont remember too much how the FR curve looked like BUT... I can tell you that it looked really nice, if not almost the same than the one right now but with less omph in the subsonic region. Less omph too with other frequencies, sure, but specially in the subsonic bass region. The VTF-3 with both ports opened (tuned to 25 Hz) is a damn good performer in the >30 Hz region (I should even say below that, sorry) and I think that this is because of the higher tuning point and that was with the new woofer. When I first bought the VTF-3, I wasnt satisfied at 100% for the price I paid, you certainly remember how much high the exchange rate was last year before the Iraq war. Buying a subwoofer from USA was quite expensive for us. But some months after my purchase, I talked about my feelings to dr. Hsu. He gave me a new woofer and he upgraded my amps for free. The woofer was a bit different than the one I had first, new dust cap, and seemed to handle high excursion just a bit better. The amp upgrade... it was made for best sustained power conditions, so it could deliver more watts continuously. All those upgrades that Hsu offered, it was not public. This was offered discreetly (pure stealth ). I think that some people mentionned that amp upgrade in a particular forum. But dr. Hsu didnt tell those changements on his website. However, all these changements can be seen and heard in his present VTF-3s, dont worry about it even if you dont know. Hes the kind of person who keeps its secrets... well if we compare him to the SVS guys. SVS let us know when some upgrades are offered to their products. Just think about the CSi improved driver. And this is good! So if some people arent ready to pay for another better sub, they can still upgrade their CS woofer the the CSi woofer and they just pay a little cost for this. I dont know if I hallucinated but Ive tested like few more dBs with those new free upgrades. This well worth it Manuel, 110 dB at 18 Hz with less than 10% THD!!! Woaw... I knew that I could hit like 113 dB at 18 Hz but that was really the maximum or near it. But if you say 110 dB at 18 Hz without passing above 10% of THD, this will be a good selling point when I will sell it. Sell it I said? Yes! Maybe not before the end of this year but I want so bad to make a Tumult subwoofer, this is a thought I had since the beginning. But I was telling myself: why not going with the Tempest first, a legendary woofer, to see how good it is. So I will just have to sell it later and to go with the Tumult after! For sure, I have enough bass for my needs with this very nice Tempest sub! But, ahhh... yea for the hell of it, the Tumult is a need! The enclosure would be smaller too, something I would like a lot. And when I think Tumult, I dont think for now about its bass quantity, but more its bass quality with its famous XBL2 motor technology. However, for SURE, I will never forget that Tempest bass, never. Really, its for now the first Ive heard that offer true quality bass for the price... even without considering the price tag, this is really a hella good subwoofer! Frankie, I totaly agree with you... For those who only know about big slam power and mid-bass punch, 100 dB below 20 Hz would be for sure a new experience for them I have Excel and I downloaded your file but what do you want me to do with it exactly?

Hahha! You sex bastards!!!

So finally, these results Manuel Delaflor! You waited for them, you wanted to see them and you get them! -So this is for a 1500 cubic ft room. -Numbers taken from the listening position (about 3 meters away) -The low pass and high pass crossover were set at 80 Hz (18 dB/octave slope). -The SPL numbers are the right one (corrected by the Radio Shack SPL compensation chart) -I did 3 tests instead of just one because I was curious to know what the Tempest would do if I block 1 or 2 of its 2 flared ports... With two ports opened, it is tuned to 18.8 Hz. With one opened, it is tuned nearer 14 Hz (I didnt calculate it too much so feel free to correct me). 194L net volume sealed (with Polyfill): 2 ports blocked 80 Hz 85.5 71 Hz 86.5 63 Hz 90.5 56 Hz 93.5 50 Hz 97.5 45 Hz 102 40 Hz 101.5 36 Hz 102.5 31.5 Hz 100 28 Hz 98 25 Hz 99 22 Hz 98.5 20 Hz 95.5 18 Hz 95 16 Hz 95.5 194L net volume Ported (with Polyfill): 1 port blocked 80 Hz 85.5 71 Hz 86.5 63 Hz 90.5 56 Hz 93.5 50 Hz 98.5 45 Hz 102.5 40 Hz 102.5 36 Hz 103.5 31.5 Hz 101.5 28 Hz 101 25 Hz 100.5 22 Hz 102.5 20 Hz 100.5 18 Hz 99 16 Hz 100.5 194L net volume Ported (With polyfill)/(No mod) 80 Hz 85.5 71 Hz 86.5 63 Hz 90.5 56 Hz 94.5 50 Hz 99.5 45 Hz 104 40 Hz 104.5 36 Hz 105.5 31.5 Hz 103 28 Hz 103 25 Hz 104 22 Hz 104.5 20 Hz 103.5 18 Hz 102 16 Hz 101.5 Looks like the Tempest FR curve is flatter when one port is blocked!!! I would like to talk more about those numbers but I dont have the time right now, I must absolutely go to the bed! P.S.: These numbers dont show the Tempest maximum SPL capability, it just shows its power at different frequencies at the SAME volume (FR curve test). Just wanted to clarify

Just wanted to indicate that ive done the FR curve test of my Tempest subwoofer. You will see some numbers really soon That was not a performance test but rather a quality test, to measure how the Tempest is in my room at a certain volume -> its FR curve in my 1500 cubic ft room. Manuel Delaflor, Hourrra! The results are coming

ROFL!!!!!!!! Yes!! My "woofer" is very capable of deep rattling bass! Ok, thank you all! Just wanted to know your opinion on this. I just thought differently. One day, just by curiousity, Im gonna do an SPL test without and with the bed! Thanx for the good laugh!!!!

Hi all! Yes, I wondered if this could affect the performance if you have a bed in your room your you dont have one (well the sub is in my bedroom). I guess that yes, because the bed absorb a certain amount of bass, Im quite sure. What do you think others about that?

LOL!! No, the sub is sit on just ONE, but it is very big. Just to give you an idea, the sub IS big and it is on it! But I will try to find a solution before the end of this week Actualy, I have even the idea of making another sub. The woofer will be probably the Tumult or simply the Stryke AV-12 or AV-15. Im thinking about it now even if I have the Tempest sub. By the way, I even thought about that before building the Tempest subwoofer (I had the Tumult in mind) but I was telling myself: "Why not going with the Tempest first to see how it performs and after, I will just have to sell it!" I would like just to have a smaller enclosure... no more than 5 cubic ft, this will be really the MAXIMUM acceptable volume for me. The AV-12 sub would be under 5 cubic ft but for the Tumult and AV-15, this will be more near 5 cubic ft.

lol Jas! But this is not really the problem. The problem is more WHERE im gonna place it in the house. I dont have a good spot for the moment for that big thing. Plus, I have some clothing in there and some other important stuff. I will have to find another place to put all those objects and Im thinking about it...

Very true... When I will have all the results, I will post these in a new topic. It will be named like "Tempest DIY sub vs Hsu VTF-3 SPL results". But I dont think that I will be able to test them before the end of this month Until this big piece of furniture stay on that room corner, this will be hard to place the subwoofers at the same place. Im thinking justly how to move away this piece of furniture and to find another place for it (which is very difficult task for the moment) !

Well I posted some numbers above, but yeah, I know that this doesnt indicate the real deal. I will have to move that big piece of furniture away from that room corner so I will be able to place the sub there and to do a serious test. I can get up to 2 more dB by placing the sub there. I hope that I will do this before the end of this month!

Can you give us some numbers of these improvments... like how much more dBs you have because of that mod? Just by curiousity

"the downside of overheating the amp is too much for only a slight increase and slight extension." ------------------------- "i dont think i'll be pollyfilling it...." Good idea! For a little increase in extension, I think the samething than you. But first at all, the first thing you should do when you have a sub and you want the most of it, is to find the BEST place for it in your room. When I used my SPL meter to setup my VTF-3, I put it at my listening position and I went everywhere in my room with my SPL meter. Then at many places, I took some readings and I got really surprised to know that the SPL meter could indicate 99dB and even 91dB at certain positions by using the same frequency!!! The location where the bass was the loudest, is the location where I placed the VTF-3 subwoofer. For me, this is the left-front room corner. Very strange but the right-front corner was way worse! Im sit between the left and right wall and Im near the backwall (a bit more than 1 ft)!!! Did you try to use other room corners? Fortunately, even if you dont have an SPL meter, you can do the same thing but with your ears! This will maybe more difficult and not as accurate, but for sure you will be able to hear where the bass is louder in your room by using the same method than me. By the way, many people use that trick

---------------- On 8/11/2003 11:36:37 PM michael hurd wrote: I was kind of wondering what a broaching machine was. How would you ever get it inside that itty bitty cabinet ? Or better off use it ? ---------------- LOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!! I really didnt know what was the word in english, so I used the super Babel Fish traduction (world.altavista.com) . I wouldnt insert this thing in the cabinet, but I thought about using it if you want to sqeeze more, or to pressurize more the polyfill against the interior walls (inside the sub). Do you know what I mean now? hehe! (From Formica) "Actually I would say you have been showing a noticeable improvement in recent posts..." Well, I try, I try! I have some difficulties again for more specifical (ahem, specific) english words and also for words which are necessary to describe a complex explanation

One more person agree too I agree with formica, fabulousfrankie and michael hurd Just wanted to add some words But yeah, I would be affraid to add some polyfill there. You wouldnt like that your Promedia sub start to be on "pro fire" if the amp becomes too hot! Well, if you put some polyfill into it, be sure that it doesnt touch the amp, try to squeeze the polyfill around the port, but be sure to have enough space between polyfill and the end of the port, to let the air coming out and in without any resistance. Around the woofers too, but let some space around the woofer structure magnets. As you can see, because the enclosure is small this will be hard to put even a little amount of polyfill. You will have to squeeze it alot, and a broaching machine could even be helpfull in order to stick the polyfill against the enclosure walls. LOL! Just wondering, when you play for a long time some songs, does your Promedia sub turn in the hot side? Is the amp hot when you touch it? P.S.: Ahhh, I feel that some sentences are screwed up there, if this is the case Im really sorry, Im a french guy and I did the best I could

---------------- On 8/8/2003 9:03:01 PM JasN00b wrote: another question, if i go with the 72" tall sonotube, can i use that with one driver? i'd like to see if one driver offeres the output i need, as i think that it will. so i was wondering if i could use the 72" sonotube, see how that works, and if i wanted to, put on a new endcap on the top for the driver? ---------------- Hmm, this wouldnt be recommanded. The FR curve would not be the same at all. You would have a bump near 19 Hz compared to other frequencies. If you want to go in one driver first, you may want to /2 the volume of that sonotube AND to build another similiar sonotube with another woofer... So a sonotube of 36" tall instead of 72" and instead of having two 6 inches ports you will have one with the same lengh if my math is correct! Please correct me others if Im wrong with that -> me very tired now at this time! Mistrass, "I measured a high of 127dB @ 35Hz" How big is your room? For a dual Tempest setup, this is a lot of output! I wonder if Im able to hit 120 dB at least (theorically, adding another Tempest sub, you get +6dB) Did you see my post where I put some numbers? At 25 Hz for example, I cant hit more than 116 dB for now!!! Im wondering if I can get more than that !

He said it... "If you stuff it, just make sure not to block the back of the drivers, cover the amp, or block the port." By the way, what kind of power do you want more? More low bass extension or more punch (or more overall bass) ? Because adding polyfill can only help you to get a bit more extension (deeper bass) but you will not gain any "overall" SPL, not more mid-bass. The sub will not punch you more because you will add some polyfill...

blake_mooney, Do you have a SPL meter? It could be very usefull If you dont want to spend any money, this is like what Frankie said... You will have to experiment some other room placements and this is where the SPL meter comes practical if you have one.

Jas, You just got an email If Dustin knows how Mike Strassburg built his sub, he can certainly tell you how exactly to build it like him

Jas, I can tell you... What Dustin recommanded is better, but the enclosure would be cylindrical instead of a box. If you dont mind of the look of a sonotube, go with it. You may want to power each Tempest with 300W of power if your budget permit it. I didnt recommand you that because I dont like cylindrical shaped sub but this is just a question of taste. But if you dont mind of the look, Dustin is so right about this design Why would it be better? Because you would have a bit more SPL below 25 Hz (with dual Tempests), between 1 and almost 2 dB more. Sound quality should be close in both cases. Oh and also the sonotube should weight less than a big well braced box which has 2 Tempests. But I dont know if it would be more easy to displace because this will be a damn huge sonotube!

It is drived with the Adire DT300 amp, 300 Watts into 4 ohms. I wish I could have the Rythmic Audio 380W amp because I think that it cost a little less BUT I didnt regret that purchase because when it is really hot in the summer time and I want to crank up the music, the DT300 is a class D amp so it produce less heat, it doesnt have any class AB like heatsink. It is really well welcomed during the past days... the amp just turned in the warm side, not hot at all and the temperature of the room is less high than when I runned my HSU VTF-3 which has a class AB amp with a heatsink. When the ambiant temperature was hot in the room, the heatsink of that amp was really really hot, you could fry an egg on it LOL! But well, during those days it was like 35 degrees C outside and 37-38 inside. When the temperature was ok in the room, the heatsink didnt heat up that much. I answered you in a email by the way Jas...

I tested rapidly with 4 test tones my Tempest in my 1500 cubic ft room. For now, I only chose those tones because any higher notes just rattle the walls and things SO much that I dont know if the Tempest bottom out or not... Im trying to find a solution for tihs.. maybe moving some object elsewhere so this will be less critical! 18 Hz -> 113 dB 20 Hz -> 115 dB 22 Hz -> 116 dB 25 Hz -> 116 dB All I can say is WOAAWW!!!! Very great performance for a subwoofer which is under $1000! I guess that Im near 120 dB in the 40 Hz region! Anyway, I live again with my parents so having this kind of output just give me the choice to have more headroom, and to crank it up more when no body is in that house except my friends and me! =============== I just forgot to add that the sub isnt placed exactly at the best spot for the moment because of a big piece of furniture so the sub is on it and not on the ground in a room corner. I tried one time to place the VTF-3 at this spot without that piece of furniture and I could hit 1 and sometimes 2 more dBs. The bad thing is that I cant move away this big thing (piece of furniture) for now because this is where I place some clothing and some gadjets. But well, I dont think that this is really important because I find the output really correct for the moment... But well, I just wanted to mention this if some Tempest users find that the outpout isnt enough high with these low bass tones.

I posted some numbers of how much powerfull the Tempest is below 25 Hz in my main tread when I talked about my Tempest. Just so you know...

Formica, I didnt see your post before mine LOL!! But well, I think that I didnt hallucinate when I saw the first page. We both agreed that this is really about a bandpass sub. I wasnt sure at 100% because they seem to rave this type of sub and Im VERY VERY tired... I really got cought by the PR department! LOLLLL! Oh well... some really lOve bandpass subs... they have the right to love them LOL But this is really not they are not the preferetated, hmm prefered of many people here I guess