fire pinch

Hallwalker, I saw your web link and I dont know if what I see is what I think, but for me they use the bandpass design. If you like especialy music and you want a sub which is very good for this, I think you should look for another project than this one. Bandpass boxes are the worst for music. But this is the box for you if you like boomy bass and BANG BANG bass, bandpass subs are extremely efficient so they can be very powerfull without having an awesome woofer with a lot of Xmax. But bandpass subs normally dont operate in a very large frequency range and this is strange, because in that webpage, they seem to tell us that you can have bass which extend to the low 15s and at the same time, they can be very good in the mid-bass region. Can someone take a look at his link? Im really confused there, because this seems to be a bandpass box when you take a look at the white papers but according to what they say in the main page, this not seem to be about bandpass box at all!!! This is a horn loaded design maybe? But well, I dont recognize a horn loaded design in those white papers... P.S.: I talk about the FIRST LINK given... the hw15

OPPPPSS!! Im sorry for the double post If an admin could delete just one of them

JasN00b, The Tempests I suggested to you will give you plenty of low bass, be sure about that. I have a pretty huge house and Im upstairs. When I play the Hsu VTF-3 bass cd, I can feel the floor DOWNSTAIRS shaking (NOT ultra much but stil...), all stuffs rattle too, this is just so funny to hear! So this give you an idea of how good the dual Tempest could be. 2 of them would even be more insane! Almost as good as one Adire Tumult in power. I guess that the floor downstairs would shake more than a little bit... by the way, the floor under me shake far more hehehe! I have a video/photo/webcam, if you want, I can show you how what happens when I play 20 Hz contents! I really suggest you to choose the SBB4 vented enclosure. This will suit very well your needs in HT and techno/dance music. With the type of enclosure I suggested to you, the F3 point is at about 22 Hz, so dont worry about how good it is at 20 Hz. I can hit actually for sure 110 dB in my room at 20 Hz and this is with only one. Im gonna test it tomarrow so I will give you some numbers at 16, 20, 22, and 25 Hz with my Tempest in my 1500 cubic ft room. Yeah, my room isnt large compared to the rest of my house but you, with 2 tempest... . How big is your room? An EBS Tempest alignment would be even better in low bass but you would loose some SPL and some punch during HT movies. Moreover, it would be in the 300 liters range (this begins to be very big lol), so this is why I think that this would not the good one for you. You may have some doubts about the Tempest but trust those who have them... Trust also people who have built other high performance DIY subs like the Stryke-AV15, Tumults, Blueprints. The Tempest is really an insane sub for the money, I dont own any SVS but some told me that one Tempest is like one SVS Ultra. This is a damn good sub for the money. The only drawback I find for this sub, is how big you must build your enclosure, especially for ported one (for the two tempest I suggested for you they would be about 7.25 cubic ft big). But you said that you just dont mind of how big they would be so this is all superb! Do you have MSN? If you have it, dont hesitate... just PM me and I will say to ya my email adress if you want to talk to me more.

JasN00b, The Tempests I suggested to you will give you plenty of low bass, be sure about that. I have a pretty huge house and Im upstairs. When I play the Hsu VTF-3 bass cd, I can feel the floor DOWNSTAIRS shaking (NOT ultra much but stil...), all stuffs rattle too, this is just so funny to hear! So this give you an idea of how good the dual Tempest could be. 2 of them would even be more insane! Almost as good as one Adire Tumult in power. I guess that the floor downstairs would shake more than a little bit... by the way, the floor under me shake far more hehehe! I have a video/photo/webcam, if you want, I can show you how what happens when I play 20 Hz contents! I really suggest you to choose the SBB4 vented enclosure. This will suit very well your needs in HT and techno/dance music. With the type of enclosure I suggested to you, the F3 point is at about 22 Hz, so dont worry about how good it is at 20 Hz. I can hit actually for sure 110 dB in my room at 20 Hz and this is with only one. Im gonna test it tomarrow so I will give you some numbers at 16, 20, 22, and 25 Hz with my Tempest in my 1500 cubic ft room. Yeah, my room isnt large compared to the rest of my house but you, with 2 tempest... . How big is your room? An EBS Tempest alignment would be even better in low bass but you would loose some SPL and some punch during HT movies. Moreover, it would be in the 300 liters range (this begins to be very big lol), so this is why I think that this would not the good one for you. You may have some doubts about the Tempest but trust those who have them... Trust also people who have built other high performance DIY subs like the Stryke-AV15, Tumults, Blueprints. The Tempest is really an insane sub for the money, I dont own any SVS but some told me that one Tempest is like one SVS Ultra. This is a damn good sub for the money. The only drawback I find for this sub, is how big you must build your enclosure, especially for ported one (for the two tempest I suggested for you they would be about 7.25 cubic ft big). But you said that you just dont mind of how big they would be so this is all superb! Do you have MSN? If you have it, dont hesitate... just PM me and I will say to ya my email adress if you want to talk to me more.

I would suggest you for that price two Tempest box but even with the SBB4 alignment (see the reference designs in the Adire website), you will get very good sound quality. I have an HSU VTF-3 in the same room and they are very well known for their good sound quality in music. And I can tell you this: Even with the SBB4 design, the Tempest still sound insane and moreover, your boxes will be smaller and this will permit you to have more SPL. Myself, I have a SBB4 Tempest and I find that it can go plenty low with authority. If you choose to make two sub with this woofer and that alignment, I would suggest you to put a bit more polyfill to tame the mid-bass boost you normally have with that design. The result: not HUGE boxes (still big ), good sound quality, very good for your techno/dance, very good for having punch in HT, and high SPL. I think that with two Tempest, you will be very very impressed of how loud the bass can be for that much money. OR... if you want only ONE sub and a moderate sized one, not too big, I have in mind the Stryke AV-15. It would cost less than 2 tempest subs but evidently, the Stryke sub will be less powerfull than two tempest. Just to show you how much air each config can displace: Two Tempest: About 5 liters of air per stroke One AV-15: 3,8 liters The numbers you see suppose that the woofer use their maximum linear Xmax. In conclusion, if you dont mind to have two boxes which are not too small , I would take the dual Tempest setup. You can also if you want, to put the 2 tempest in a single enclosure but that enclosure will be damn huge!!!

"A Everest or B4-Plus eats DIY, unless its extreme lunatic DIY using dozens of woofers" Oh well, eats DIY? Why not doing yourself a box with two Tumults like the Everest (Just kidding! )

---------------- On 7/29/2003 11:51:19 PM TimAustralia wrote: the yamaha 'technically' is capable of the full 20Hz (20Hz - 160Hz @-10db). ---------------- According to that spec, your Yamaha is no way capapable of a FULL 20 Hz, actually, it is down of -10dB at 20 Hz. This means that the bass power at 20 Hz drops of TEN decibels compared to lets say 50 Hz... (At 50 Hz, your Yam shouldnt drop in power). So be carefull when you are looking for specs of a subwoofer Ive never heard that Yamaha sub but Im quite sure that below 35 Hz, nothing is really heard from that sub. If The_Ears heard some of them, he can certainly comment what Ive said. As for the Logitech sub, like Goosechaser said, this one can go louder, but its bass is less tight and accurate than the Promedia one. Some people prefer the Logitech sub and others the Klipsch one. It depends of what type of bass you like... do you prefer boom boom party in da house bass or more tigh and musical bass but with less omph? What kind of music do you listen to? If you like your bro 560's, I say go for it... for the price, this is a nice set of speakers Hearing the Promedia 5.1 sub isnt a bad idea but this kit will cost you quite more Ohhh!! and if you like the sound of your bro Logi system and because you are thinking about the Promedia's 5.1, I would go more toward the Logitech 680s. They are still cheaper than the Klipsch 5.1s, and you have 5.1 sounds. By the way, are you looking at only THE sub or the entire kit with all the satellites speakers? Sorry, Im back from work and Im a bit mixt-minded with all this tread

L'Oreille, It would be cool if you could build one, a sub based on the Tempest. I know that you hate huge box so why not a Mid-Q sealed box. It is cheap, not too huge and I think that you would love it very much, considering how much it would cost you. With a nice finish, this would be one of your favorite puppy! I saw somewhere that you said you would like to buy a Tumult or MULTIPLE Tumult subs But try before the Tempest at least, if you have some timeleft one day This would be one more sub in your sub collection

Oh well... but still, you certainly found that this is a good woofer for the money. To think that the woofer of that calliber would look like the one found in the HGS-18 sub is in our dreams However, we never know... this is certainly what you had in mind while taking out the woofer from the enclosure! Well, Im sure that this is a very good sub for your PC! Stupid question... how do you think it compares against your Promedia 5.1 sub? LOL! BTW, is this the 5.1 you have? Oh and my dad is affraid for the structural integrity of my house when I fire up my Tempest... I dont think that it is this powerfull to do any dammage. The house seems rock solid, I dont see any reason why the Tempest can broke something in the structure... Oh! I have to add something else... Those who dont know too much with what kind of box the Tempest can go and who beleive that the result is always a big box because most people tell you that, it can go in a moderated box too. In a 4.5 cubic ft sealed box, this is a Mid-Q design and a good compromise between deep and punchy bass. In that sealed box, it would loose some output below 30 Hz but even that, I think that it could be very well compared to subwoofers which cost double its price. Considering the large amount of power the Tempest can have (I didnt succed to bottom out mine yet), to compensate for the drop in output in the deep bass region, you just EQ it. This will make the Tempest work harder but it is definitvely able to take that load of work. Many amps have build-in EQ, you can change the switches to apply the bass boost where you want. That was just my 2 cents

---------------- On 7/27/2003 2:28:58 PM TheEAR wrote: El Presidente De La Flour, ---------------- LOOOOOLL!!! Sacré oreille, tu ne changera donc jamais!!! Damn Ear, you will thus never change, keeping re-mixing the letters to make new funny names!

Oh well... I was sure than any SVS would come on tap compared to those Polk subs but are they able to go deep? For that price, this would be amazing if the Polks would be able to go truely down to 20 Hz. This would be a nice sub to recommand for my parents... so this is why I asked the comparison against SVS. Take for example the PB1 ISD or the PCi sub, they are still cheap for what they can do. Just wondered if the Polks could do the same thing but beeing less powerfull because of a lower price...

Oh and second thing l'orelle, How does compare the Polk Audio subs you are talking about against others? Ex... against what kind of SVS, Velo, etc...

L'oreille, "Keep piling up the subs" LOL... no I dont think that Im gonna keep piling all the sub I will do... I think about selling my VTF-3 even if it will make me cry because this is a damn good subwoofer, actually this is the first TRUE subwoofer (can go as deep as my ears permit) that I had the chance to have. The Tempest is truely enough for me and If I make a Tumult, this will be just for the fun of making it. I will have better sound quality but hell... who think that Im gonna crank it all the way up! I hited the 120 dB mark with the Tempest and that was my goal, I dont need much more and that 120 dB I dont listen to it unless to impress people who come to listen to it! Otherwise, I listen most of the time to moderate level and the power ability of the Tempest, I use it most of the time like a power reserve (I know it can go louder, just to feel safer) And Im sure l'oreille that even with your armée of the big bang of the universe, Im sure that you just have all of these just because you are a bass freak but you certainly dont listen all the time to 120 dB... I guess that one day you choose to play your music on a Sunfire Sig or the other day, on your Velo 18 hehe!!! Oh well, your house foundation wouldnt resist one second with all your freaking subs!! Jme mets à ta place et ca doit etre le fun en caline de bine I know, I would do the same thing me too if I would have my own house... I would keep all the sub I make or buy, just for the hell of it! Today is again the day when I play all kind of songs to let heat this big monster, the numbers will come probably next week. I tried to push it harder today and I was shocked... it didnt show any sign of distress again, but Im happy because this is what I want afterall I will drive it higher during the next week... anyways, I dont want to piss the neighboor everyday, so I try to be quiet sometimes!

Ahh you got me guys, I just uploaded a pic of how the box look without the woofer. Not so beautifull actually but the finish will come!

Hi formica, Good to hear some news from you You certainly noticed that I didnt buy a Tumult. I thought alot about this and I felt that I would have to go with the Tempest first and after, to sell it and to build a sub with the Tumult woofer I just hope that my tempest will be sold fastly when I will place the add on the internet but I begin to doubt it due to its "hugeness"!!! But if it has a nice finish, and considering its HUGE value for the performance you get, I think that I will be even able to sell for a tad more than what I paid. Actually, in stores, this is hard to find a subwoofer which perform this well under 2000 (even more) canadians. Boys & girls, the numbers will come out soon for the Tempest but I must let it play again a few days before driving it hard. I also might considere to apply a fisnish on it before testing it so you will see the numbers and some pictures Still for the instance, the sub looks very good even without any finishes but grrrr you will have to wait

Manuel Delaflor, Dont worry I will post my numbers soon, when the sub will be enough broken in. However I can give you some clue for the moment! I can reach the same level of output than the VTF-3 when it is driven at the maximum when the Tempest feels in a comfortable level. In my room, the VTF-3 was very powerfull, beeing around 115 dB during disco bar or techno type of music. At 20 Hz, it could hit 108 dB if I remember, this is when I tested it with test tones. And that was when the door was closed, when I open it, I gain 2 dB! I deleted all the text file where I put my VTF-3 numbers, this is because I knew that I would test it again, when the Tempest would be done. For a direct comparasion, all I can say is this: I runned the Tempest and the Hsu side by side yesterday, that was not in the best location, in the center of the bedroom quite away from the back wall. Im loosing a lot of output at the listening position when the subs are there almost 5 to 6 dB!!! Certainly because there is the bass doesnt travel correctly tru the entire room. I fired up "Eminem - Sign for the Moment" because this song pounds very deep bass notes. This song isnt my preferate at all, I listen to any type of music, but this one interested me for a short test. The Tempest could always hit 111 dB while the VTF-3 hit 108 dB in the lowest bass note... you know when the bass goes like taaaaaaaaaaaa, ta taaaaaaa, ta -> taaaaaaaa <-(THIS taa) the last one. With the other taaaa the Tempest had an advantage of 2 dB sometimes the SPL meter indicated 3 dB (maybe there was a 2.9 dB who knows lol) In that time, the Hsu was quite maxed out while the Tempest wasnt again at its maximum, quite interesting!! By the way, do you want all that I test my Tempest at the maximum volume at each test tones? Exemple, at 20 Hz, the maximum the tempest can go, at 25 Hz, etc... because If I do it that way, this will not indicate to you how flat is the bass in my room. I can do a test where I put the volume at a certain point and I dont touch it when I listen to different test tones. Its all like you want... Oh!! And I forgot to tell you that the Hsu VTF-3 still sounds amazing and I just smiled when I compared it shortly against the tempest... this little beast still hold well against it considering how big it is

Nice sub Mustang!! What king of finish did you use for your Tempest exactly? You mentionned a truck paint something... lol!! I think that youre gonna be shocked when you will listen to your 8 cubic ft box tempest, this is so unbeleivable how much it can shake my whole body sit on my chair!!! You can still make another bigger sealed box and you would see a difference. Do you have a parametric EQ or an EQ build-in the amp? The most you will get out ouf your future 8 cubic ft enclosure if you choose to make it, is the deep low bass below 30 Hz. Im upstairs and everything rattle in the kitchen downstairs and the sub isnt even fired up at the maximum, it is passing its brake in moment. Those things shaked when I played my HSU VTF-3 disc demo, this is all about bass below 25 Hz I dont doubt that you certainly feel a lot of mid-bass kick with that type of enclosure when you play techno or disco style songs By the way, Im using too a Sound Blaster in my computer but this isnt a Live, this is an Audigy... soon to be upgraded to an Audigy 2. I dont think that your soundcard is the problem for the lack of omphhh this is most likely due to your small sealed enclosure. You will for sure get defitively more ooomph with an enclosure like mine, about 7.25 cubic ft with a bit more than 64 ounces (about 80) of polyfill. I suggest you to make your enclosure a little bit smaller than 8 cubic ft, most likely line mine and to put more polyfill because even with that size, my sub is HUGE, defitively a monster for my room. Still, for sure you will get better sound with a Sound Blaster Audigy, buy the 2 and not the 1 because there is not a big difference in price anyway now. Specially if you have very good floorstanders, you must change that sound card to get the most of what you play. Also, bad encoded mp3 isnt very good too, if you find that you hear something that you dont like from your sub. Oh... and I payed a bit more than you because of the flared ports, and I bought some other stuff also that I didnt have for building the sub :S But still, at this price point, the Tempest is one of a monster subwoofer!

Im in a small room , 1500 cubic ft, this is my bedroom Well, I know that the -3dB isnt the tuning frequency but I assume that it is now tuned to 18 Hz. With 64 ounces of polyfill, I saw with some test tones that I were between 18.6 and 18.8 Hz, the internal net volume is a tad bigger than 194 liters due to the heavy internal braces. But since then, I added some polyfill until the bass quality please me and also to tame the little mid bass boost implicated with that design. By the way, for that HUGE room you should look for the Stryke AV-15 instead of a Mealstrom if this isnt too asked for the money. It would be more powerfull for filling that room and you could place it in a smaller box... IMHO. I didnt choose that woofer personally because Im canadian and with all those taxes and duties, the Tempest represents a better bang for your buck.

Hi all!!!! I know that this is maybe not appropriate to post things about DIY subwoofers here but I saw someone posting about his tempest here! So I had the idea to let others who are septical about DIY subwoofers know about how this thing is . Firstly, let me tell you that this thing pounds a lot! I have an Hsu VTF-3 too in my room and the Tempest eat it!!! Most likely in power. I have a quite a huge house, Im upstair and I can feel the wooden floor shaking downstairs easily!!! Beleive me, this is one of an agressive sub when wanted! As for the wall shaking ability, so many people say that their subs shake anything blahblah so this is not very informative... those people could be in a small house so this is not a good indication of how much their sub are capable of. I didnt use my SPL meter yet, but knowing how much my VTF-3 could hit, Im sure that Im above 115 dB even 120. Now, you will ask me, but how DEEP is it able to go?? As deep as the floor permit It doesnt have any problem to go down to 16 Hz with authority. For the bass quality, I still find that the VTF-3 hold very well beside it but still, it cant goes deep with the ease of the Tempest. The most big difference Ive heard with the Tempest is the amount of harmonic distortion, almost absent! This woofer sounds so CLEAN , I was totally amazed at first when I heard it. I was really affraid for the quality because I thought that a 15 inchers would be less good for bass tightness (oh well, but the RSW-15 sure sounds good), especially at this price!! The bass is VERY (I will not use a better term because I will use it when I will make a Tumult subwoofer and I know it would be even better )tight, specially with music with a lot of drum. For "quiet" and rock music, guitar and bass strings sound like a pure delice, very warm and accurate sound. Moreover, the Tempest just dissapear, it incredibly integrate with my floorstanders and when you listen to music, you just dont know where the bass is coming from if you close your eyes. For more "moving" music such as dance, disco, rap, the subwoofer hit you hard in the chest, it has a very good mid-bass presence. And this mid-bass presence helps for reproducing an easy transition and integration with my floorstanders. A PURE BARGAIN for the money, I cant beleive how much quality bass is pounded with ease at this price tag, this thing is 850CAN all assembled and ready to fire! I dont know of any subs below 2000 which sounds better for the moment. For the details of how it is built... I took at look at the Adire Audio plans and I made my Tempest based on these. I chose the SBB4 design because I wanted the most possible SPL of my sub but and at the same time, good acuracy and very deep bass. The driver is housed into a 194 liters box tuned to 18 Hz NOT 18.8 or near 19 Hz with more than 64 ounces of Polyfill. Acutally, it is tuned a little bit lower than the reference design. I tested the -3dB point with accurate test tones and it is more tuned to 18 Hz than near 19 (18.8). And I did that because I wanted it tuned lower. By default, an SBB4 tempest has a little boost in the mid-bass region so by putting pore polyfill into the enclosure, I find myself with a lower tuned subwoofer and the mid-bass is a bit reduced for a flatter FR curve. The woofer isnt bottom mounted, I made a MDF enclosure, the front baffle is double walled with 3/4 inchs of MDF and the driver is countersunk into the enclosure for a better looking. I chose the Adire DT300 amp over the AVA250 for a bit more omph and the driver is definitvely able to take it. Moreover, becasue this is a class D amp, it stays very cool under operation, not any heatsink mounted on the back plate. Actally, when I touch it, it is just warm. There is two 3 inches flared ports and listen very carefully, because I wondered what kind of port to choose at first: 3 inches flared ports is ENOUGH for this sub beleive me, Im the kind of person who hate a LOT port noise. I thought it was kinda under-ported but because it is tuned low, most of the music you hear doesnt have so much low bass information. So... I didnt watch any movie yet to know how it performs in movies and I didnt tested objectively the subwoofer but this will come soon! I want that it pass its break in period before. Unfortunately, for the moment, I just have one DVD and this is Tombraider for those who are fanatic about Angelllllllina Jolie !!! Im most likely a music listener so its why I dont have ahemm... SO much DVDs If you have any questions, feel free to ask me

yeah, I find the structure magnet of the VTF-3 very impressive. I really dont know why the magnet is so massive for that type of woofer... its weight is 2 times bigger than the one found in the Shiva Mark III woofer (60 oz for the Shiva and 130 for the VTF-3). During the last week, I just took in my hand the Shiva Mark III and oh boy, I was surprised to see how much less it weights compared to the VTF-3! However you cannot rely only on the structure magnet to judge the performance of a woofer... I think that the Shiva Mark III can even be stronger but I dont know, I didnt have an occasion to hear it. Im sure that Dustin can tell me anyway

Krew, I saw that in the HTF forum, what you said. But I guess that it would require to build a bigger box and I want to build a small box. Think 2.5 cu ft for a sealed enclosure and 5 cu ft for a passive radiator enclosure. This wouldnt be possible with that monster! I think that this is why some people including me, are waiting for their Tumult... because they want a smaller enclosure. Btw, I dont deny the fact that for the same price, you can have a monster!

I dont know for SURE if Im gonna get the Tumult yet, Im not TOTALY decided. I dont know now which one to choose between the Stryke HE15 and the Tumult. The TC Sound HE15 driver seems to be very impressive but it would require that I build a bigger enclosure and this is not what I really want + Stryke doesnt have a lot of them in stock. But since a few weeks I had just the Tumult in my thoughts, I was thinking of making a 2.5 cubic ft sealed enclosure first with it so this is probably the woofer I will get with a 1000W plate amp. BE SURE that I will post numbers as soon as I will get my sub completed and since I have a Hsu VTF-3 subwoofer, I will as well compare my DIY sub against it. I will even post some pictures if you wish and I can make some videos which show the sub when it is playing However, I dont have so many DVDs (I just have Tombraider) for making a complete review which show a subwoofer performance in a HT environment but I have many style of music so I will try to answer all your questions as much as I can It seems that Adire Audio begin to be able to have more Tumult because they have less problems with their fabs. Well this is what Ive seen somewhere in a certain forum so this is a good news for us who wait impatiently for our Tumults. I expect that my sub will be completed during July... still take this info with a grain of salt but this is very probable. I PROMISE you that I will keep you posted on this and on the HTF forum too For now, just sit on your chair and stop to cry!

I suggest you that you download WinISD, this is a free program which will help you very much for making a DIY subwoofer. It can answer all your questions. You can build a sealed / ported / passive radiators enclosure and it will tell you the fr curve and the tuning point... also the excursion of the woofer with a certain amount of power, the air velocity of a port, etc. By the way, the Tumult driver is not listed in this software so you will have to enter its parameters manually. I wish you the best of luck for your project!

The Tumult seems to be a so impressive driver. When I look at it, I think that it can outperform the majority of home subwoofers in the market (well maybe not those who have a high price tag) now with a proprely built cabinet and with enough power. The AV15 is a driver which have quite near the excursion capability of the Tumult so I see it also like a monster. But unfortunately, we have to consider other things than the Xmax for the performance, and its why Im a bit biased and I wonder how they (AV15 and Tumult) can compare against other highly regarded subwoofers...

LOLL!! I made a big TYPO in my tread subject... just erease a "would" lol!