Vicoaster

Thanks Matt, I think that you are right, interesting that they made the switch to a new model number along with cosmetic changes...But did not keep the larger S-3 in the line.

Hey there, I already have a compliment of the original S series of Synergy speakers, my question is about the Surrounds in this post. I have a couple of pairs of S-2's, for a project I am gathering the pieces for I need another set. Obviously unless I can find a pair of used S-2's (which I am not adverse to), the used prices of the S-2 approach the cost a sale price for the S-20... I was thinking of simply buying a set of S-20's, so my questions are: The S-20 looks like the identical speaker except for the colour, the physical size and electrical specifications are the same? The material of the components and box, are they the same? Timbre or sonic match, is it the same? Regarding the tweeters, are they wired in-phase? S-20 Specs: Frequency Response: 83Hz-23KHz ± 3dB SENSITIVITY: 91dB @ 2.83V / 1m POWER HANDLING: 100W RMS / 400W Peak NOMINAL IMPEDANCE: 8 Ohms compatible Low Frequency Driver: 5.25" (13.3cm), IMG woofer ENCLOSURE TYPE: Sealed (WDST) INPUTS: Single binding posts HEIGHT: 6.85" (17.4cm) WIDTH: 14.3" (36.3cm) DEPTH: 5.5" (13.9cm) WEIGHT: 7lbs (3.2kg) MOUNTING: Keyhole Bracket FINISH: Black Ash vinyl Built From: 2010 S-2 Specs: Frequency Response: 83Hz - 23kHz +/-3dB SENSITIVITY: 91dB @ 2.83 volts/1 meter POWER HANDLING: 100 w (400 w peak) NOMINAL IMPEDANCE: 8 ohms TWEETER: Two 1" (2.5cm) aluminum dome tweeters HIGH FREQUENCY HORN: 2 x 5" (12.7cm) 90 x 60 Tractrix Horns WOOFER: 5.25" (13.3cm) woofer CROSSOVER FREQUENCY: 2500Hz ENCLOSURE TYPE: Sealed (WDST) DIMENSIONS: 6.85" (17.4cm) x 14.3" (36.3cm) x 5.5" (13.9cm) WEIGHT: 7lbs. (3.2kg) MOUNTING: Keyhole Bracket Built From: 2004 BUILT UNTIL: 2010 Thanks!

Peter, Yes, when Danley put the kits back out for sale I jumped right away, I had tried to buy a couple in Vancouver, but the seller wanted more then 2 new units already built directly from Danley! Then I found a un-completed kit in the US but it was so far away it would have taken a 3-day trip just to pick-it up... So now I have 2 on the way. I still have the drivers (Eminence LAB 12's) that I was going to use in the THT but their future fate is unknown right now. That is great news about the integration of REW with miniDSP, I need to read more about that now. Wow, 4 outputs, 2 for each input, that more then covers what I want to do, or may want to do in the future! The only specifications I am researching about the miniDSP is the balanced versus un-balanced versions, (powering a pro-audio Behringer EP4000) and the maximum output voltages that each of the miniDSP's can provide. The pro-audio amp needs 2.0vrms to be able to reach reach the rated output, and the website talks about the input sensitivity but the not the output voltages... What type of amplifier are you powering the THT with?

Yes, ordered from Hong Kong. Shipping is a standard $35 for North America; expensive for the weight but not outrageous. You can track it to your home within a week or so. I got the finished version and purchased the plugin only when I received the unit. What it can do varies a bit from plugin to plugin, but the 2-way advanced plugin allows you to set a steep high-pass filter on the crossover portion of the software, and up to six parametric EQs settings. There's no 20 Hz limit like on some Behringer units. It's easy to attempt to correct a frequency response curve within REW on a PC, export the designed PEQ filters in a file and load them into the miniDSP plugin software, add the high-pass and upload it all to the miniDSP via USB. This sounds like a good idea too, the programability of the unit looks impressive, as soon as I get a chance I will have to read more about this unit. I wa wondering if I would need 2 boards to control 2 sub channels? Did I read your comments about REW correctly, correct a freq. response curve and this will give you the PEQ files for the 6 available adjust points automatically? BTW, I still haven't had an opportunity to start the THT, I have the speakers but work has been very busy of late! Add to this a wrinkle in the sub department... somehow I managed to get 2 DTS-10's ordered and enroute to my location. [] Al

Peter, do you have to order this direct from DSP in Hong Kong, if so how did that go? Was it expensive? Did you get a single board?, I am still looking into EQ, IIRC these have 2 channels with up to 6 frequencies that can be adjusted per channel right?

Thanks for the feedback Peter, I is great to know how you feel the project turned out. Wise words about the low profile version, I have already bought the plans for the regular THT but placement and concealment have me considering the purchase of the LP plans, I could just lay a pair down under the screen the the LP version. The idea of a tapped horn still intrigues me, wished I had seen the DIY DTS-10 kit offered early last , still expensive as compared to the THT buy much better then the full retail cost. And although I have seen some plans for TH's none seem as well documented as the Tuba which kind leaves me wondering about the end result. It is tough enough to find the time to build a verified/tested design but to go for the unknown I just don't have the luxury of that much free time!

You know, you state something that we all (at least me) tend to forget, that it is the modern age of music and cinema that had brought ultra low bass, before that 20-30 Hz was considered quite low frequency... now we want it down to 10 Hz or lower! Correct me if I'm wrong, but the OP is going to be using this for HT. The LFE channel on many movie sound tracks has a ton of infrasonics on them. 10 Hz content is common. I've seen waterfall charts (AVS forum I believe) that have scenes from movies with sub 20Hz content. The list is amazingly long. 30 Hz is great for music but a sub that can reproduce virtually anything on a movies LFE track is a whole different beast. I believe that you are correct, Peter does have this in his HT but uses it for some music as well... As for the range that at HT sub needs to reach, no argumants there either, and I think you alluded to the fact that this brings a whole other set of challanges to the mix, not only from a physics standpoint but financial as well! []

You know, you state something that we all (at least me) tend to forget, that it is the modern age of music and cinema that had brought ultra low bass, before that 20-30 Hz was considered quite low frequency... now we want it down to 10 Hz or lower!

Peter, can you post a link for the post on the AVS forum for a in wall mounted Tuba? Thanks!

COOL! I can't wait to have 2 of these in my theatre! (although I may have to get the plans for the low-profile Tuba, it would be easier to lay them down onder the screen...)

Wow, it looks bigger then I thought, how wide is it again? Looking forward to the pictures, and the report of how it sounds, I wish I could get started on mine, I doubt it will be until next year now! [:$]

Looking good Peter, a lot more complex now seeing it from the side view! You mentioned taking out the screws, would there be a problem just leaving them in? I have built many speakers, usually I just leave them in place after the glue sets...

So is this the same one? Looks like it to me. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/143714-lab12-tapped-horn.html Interesting comment in post #8... only good to 70-80Hz? Wasn't the inductor for 150 Hz rolloff? Besides if this is connected to the LFE channel most are low passed to 120 Hz. Either that or I could use the cossoever in the AVR or an electronic crossover. See this thread for some great pictures of the Danley: http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/500239/0/#msg_500239

I understand that the TH is supposed to go lower, it still might be a possiblilty for my project however the plan recently posted in this thread is very basic in it details, I little disconcerting when deciding over the Tuba HT... Also based on this information posted on Bill's Tuba HT site, the Tuba might get to the necessary frequencies anyway? Precisely how it was meant. The Tuba is more efficient but the TH goes lower......takes a lot to do 16 Hz. but there is content we never feel otherwise. Transformers Movie (first one) contains tons of 18 Hz. stuff to Klipsch commercial engineers use it to set up theaters, like Malco. Not impressed yet? Add in the cabin gain of an average room (12dB per octave below 30 Hz) and you can end up with flat response to 10Hz with 110dB sensitivity. Not even the most expensive theatrical subs made can make that claim. Here's what builder 'Tweedpower'has to say about his THT: Built a Tuba HT, my third Tuba. This is a different animal. I built a 30" wide version. This was the widest size that would fit through my door. The low end output is unreal. It is the greatest for the LF channel in my HT. I have been experimenting with different crossover points and I think that I like crossing it over lower at 60 or 80 hz. The power in the sub 50 hz region is impressive. It lets you know what the sound engineers had in mind. I get great output down to 15 hz and basically flat to 18 hz when using minimal EQ. The sensitivity advantage of the Tuba HT means bass more solid than you've ever heard before. The folded horn geometry reduces distortion to levels that no direct radiator sub can even approach. Here's what builder MaxMercy measured from his THT: 20Hz: 114dB at 4.5% THD. I did not push any further, as the panes in my windows were moving about 1/16" at the time. I think they would have broken if I went further. Above 20Hz, you can get damned near as much as you want dB-wise, all clean. Basically, from 16 or so Hz on up, you have strong bass, from 20Hz on up, INSANE bass. I designed the system to give me great sound at -10dB from reference (with Dynamic EQ frequency correction to account for equal loudness curves), which it does with flying colors flat down to around 16Hz before dropping off. Useful output down to 12Hz. All at less than 5% THD. In a sweep and distortion test of a $9950 sub, the Genelec HTS6... the Genelec runs over 10% THD at 115dB. This is significant, in that a sub almost 20 times less expensive to build can seriously compare with one of the best subs available.

If you build either of those, you won't need to sell them. Your reply made me laugh, not because it was funny but because I am taking it to be a masterful understatement... []

Picture, I don't see it?

Almost there Peter, even if it has been slow going the Tuba is almost finished... I wish I had some time to work on mine, so much on the go with the kitchen and starting a new job that I dare not even try... So, you mentioned finish, have you come up with anything?

I used Ascendantaudio Avalanche drivers, which aren't made anymore. If I were building one today, I'd use the 18" version of THESE . Ficaraudio does all the warranty repairs for Ascendantaudio and builds drivers for them. It's a great company with excellent customer service. I've bought 5 drivers from them so far for other projects and have been very pleased. Hmmmm, maybe I have been looking at too many comercially built subs but from what I see at the Ficaraudio site these are too badly priced, sure 4 of them adds up but wow what an effect they would have on the HT experience! So would you wire them as 2 pairs driven by separate sub channels? How much power? Dang, you have me looking at that back wall of the HT thinking speaker cutouts... yeah, yeah they would fit just fine... room 21x16x8... this could be interesting! How does Audyssey handle such things?

Could you tell me what drivers you used and if you were doing it again would they still be the ones of choice?

As much as I would like to get started on either the tapped horn or the TUBA HT, the wife has her(our) kitchen in the project list before the home theater stuff so I am hold a bit as well... From what you say above the single 12 tapped horn has been built by others, do you have some direct reports of the build and end results? Is the single driver version you are planning to build the one you posted the plan for? Also you mention that you were going to make a pair of Danley LAB horns, even have to wood cut, are these plans available? I was reading where the driver used in the Danley had significantly different electromagnetic parameters then the Eminence LAB 12... So is the design you have different? Thanks!

I'll say, I am glad that you don't mind the intrusion! As I said earlier since I have the 2 x 12" Eminence LAB speakers I might as well build some TUBA's or tapped horns with them, that way if I decide to dive into the world of IB I can sell a working set of subs! The other thing is I will need some time to save for 4 18" subs (seems to be the popular configuration) along with some significant amplifier power! I haven't come across the cost for such beasts but it surely can't be inexpensive!

CECAA850, I aggree with what you say above, but as I already have the 2 drivers, I might as well make something with them! Do you have some photo's and specs for your setup?

Regarding IB, I suppose I just needed to remember back a few years when I built such speakers... I just jumped to the conclusion that this was some new methodology for sound reproduction! [] Also years ago I toyed with this idea, speakers in the wall the rear wave isolated from the from but the wife at that time nixed that idea promptly! Although low extension is very desirable, the cost must be considered as well, interestingly I have a good room for this idea and may investigate it at some point in the future, but for now as Claude mentions, taking everything into account the horn solution has some definite advantages (especially since I have 2 suitable speakers already). So it will either be a pair of Tuba HT's or tapped Horns as soon as I decide (or are convinced) which would be better! Still worried about the placement of the two choices. If I have to have the Tuba facing into a corner it will have to be behind the main listening area.

Hmmm, IB, for those less enlightened (me) why not provide just a bit more information then 2 letters? At the risk of offending you, real assistance or enlightenment would be more detailed then "IB and why not..." regards, PS, Peter, sorry if this looks like a hijack of your thread, if CECAA850 responds with some informaton we can take it elsewhere and not discuss it in your thread.

See my plans above. I would build 2 of these, since it's only 4 sheets of plywood and very simple build to get your to way below 20 Hz. in a smaller box than the tuba. According to all the audio science, the ideal number of subs is 3 or 4 spread around the room to balance all the room modes, so 2 is better than one. Thanks for posting the plan and for the feedback. Hmmm, sounds interesting, they are big though! [] (says the guy with Klipschorns) I wonder about the corner placement of the TUBA HT versus a pair of these, I was planning on a baffle wall for the front sound stage so I have to be careful about placing any speaker in front that needs to face the wall rather then out to the room (it seem that this may be the requirement of the Tuba HT?). I would be interested in additional information on the tapped horn, pictures and some reports from those that have built 'this' one. Thanks!