edwardre
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Posts posted by edwardre
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Yeah Doug, no expert here either. Your reckonong sounds as viable as mine once did to me!
So, WRT Forte II's, fate has plonked a set upon me. Was looking for some mains for a 'cheesy' mini-HT to add decent audio to my 50" Proscan RPTV in the living room. Idly perusing the Klipsch section of e-bay this morn when I noticed a black pair of II's at $288 with 11 minutes to go. Since I was already late out the door, I could not afford to hang around and 'play the game', so peering around to make sure the missus was nowhere in sight and after doing a quick cost/benefit analysis, I tossed a $330.01 bid in and left for work. These II's had already about 17 bidders, and I thought to myself surely there would be a snipe amongst, so I truly discounted my chances.
Imagine my surprise when I got to work and had the 'congratulations' e-mail. Yup! $330 for Forte II's. Looks like shipping from Chicago to CA will be $37.15 per speaker, Fed Ex ground. Can't beat that either. Don't think I could have done better speakerwise for that price.
I've never heard Fortes. Neither the I's or the II's so this is indeed going to be a pleasure. E-bay can certainly be a strange place.
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Ed
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V33 - First, welcome to the forum.
I too asked this question with nary a response so I did some research. According to a Denon sales rep, "yes", they are the exact same unit. The 1082 was targeted for sales in department stores.
$700 is a fairly average price. I too am in the market and have seen the 3802 go for about $740 average (for new not refurb) and the 1082 go for about $50 bucks less. A deal would be anything less than $650 for either, more than $750 and you probably could have done a little better.
Hope this helps.
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Ed
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Ah-so...... Curious though as to if the effect you've experienced differs from that of a direct view TV. By your reckoning, "the magnetic field affects the CRT guns, causing color misalignment". This would tend to indicate to me that the magnetic pull has it's effect at the point of color convergence, ie. the phosphor of the picture tube proper. Since a RPTV, to my knowledge, does not have this 'internal to the tube' convergence point but rather in effect a 'screen' as a point of convergence, is the effect similar?
I guess I'm unclear as to how a singular colored tube (R G or
can have color misalignment at the point of each tube when there is no 'alignment' involved at that point.------------------
Ed
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Hey K-58, just out of curiosity, what network is in a '58 K-horn? According to 'The Dope From Hope', the K-500-5000 was used until about '55. However, the wooden/fiberglass 500 cycle mid-horn was used until '63 at which time they went to the K-400 straight horn, a 400 cycle horn presumably covered by the AA net.
So, question is, if not the K-500-5000, what network was used for the 500 cycle mid-horn from '55 - '63?
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Ed
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I was under the impression that it was only direct view TV's that you need to concern yourself with magnetic interference. I don't believe that I ever had issue with my RPTV. At one time I had my K-horns butted right up to each side of the RPTV with nary a problem. I thought this was because the magnet field only has effect on the phospherous of a direct view TV. Since the RPTV is really just a projector and a big mirror, I was under the belief that the 3 color guns, possessing no phospher, were unable to be affected.
Have I been incorrect?
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Ed
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Now, what about this Denon AVR-1082? It's advertised as the same as the 3802 just a 'department store' model. Anybody have experience with this unit? I was thinking of the 3802 myself, but the 1082 can be had for less. Thoughts?
BTW - Currently using the AVR1701. Zero - I mean zero hiss.
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Never seen me no Zebrawood CW's.
Sure would be nice to get a pic or two posted!
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Ed
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I think that originally the bass horn was crossed at 500hz. This is evidenced by the early networks....the K-500-5000. My '54's have this and came with the curved fiberglass/wood 500hz mid horn, as does the '54 single that is currently on e-bay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1340886023 I replaced my fiberglass/wood horns successfully with Altec 511B's. Same size, same properties, excellent sound dispersion, won't clack, won't delam. Just putty the bejesus out of 'em.
I believe that they went to the 400hz straight horn in the early '60's. Have the data somewhere, but I'm lazy today.
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Ed
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E-bay is a mixed bag and most certainly a buyer beware environment. As long as you go into it with that expectation, you shouldn't be disappointed. I have had success with 'buy it now' options especially when the seller has not done his/her homework. Right place, right time. '83 CW's for $500 'buy it now' just 3 months ago. Last night there were a pair of Forte (I's) for a 'buy it now' of $425. In oiled walnut, these were a good deal. They were gone this morning. However, there was/is(?) another set of Oak Forte (I's), one slightly cosmetically dinged up but generally easily 'restorable' for a 'buy it now' of $400. Another steal and I bet they will be swooped upon if not already very soon.
My problem is not to get caught up in the last second bidding frenzy. The other day, as posted variously on this BB, there were CW boxes from that dude that seems to have every heritage Klipsch available especially KHorns, in staggering numbers, RedondoTom. These boxes sat at like $26 up until the last few hours. Heck of deal. Having enough components to populate them laying idle on shelves, I thought 'what the hell'. My sister lives down in that area and was willing to pick-up as 'Tom' wouldn't ship. Like I say, in the waning moments, these skyrocketed to a figure that was IMHO, beyond ridiculous. You could have made yourself a set or two out of Myrtlewood Burl for less.
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Ed
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I have found that 'hands down', IMHO, DTS is superior to DD5.1. To me, generally speaking and bearing in mind the 'mix and engineering job', DD5.1 sounds more 'muffled' as well as biased towards the front. Again in general I have found that DTS is more detailed (higher resolution), 'brighter', and makes better use of the surrounds ie. better surround definition. Case and point is U-571. On the one scene where its raining like the bejesus just before the American sub gets blindsided by the torpedo, with DTS it is like you are there in a rainstorm. Shiver me timbers just recalling. I do not get even close to that feeling with the DD5.1.
I believe (at least for my older equipment) that bass management is a variable. In order for me to realize the full potential of DTS on my system, I need to set each speaker to 'full size'. Otherwise, the DTS sounds so 'tinny' as to be almost unlistenable.
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Ed
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Hi Wes,
I too prefer the 'classic' Klipsch sound over the 'upfront' sound. To that end, I recently scored a set of 'B's to replace the 'B-3's in my '83 (rear) CW's. Curious though on how the K-57's 'take' the B net compared to the B-3? I have several K-55-V's laying around and was considering swapping the K-57 out but just was wondering how things sound from your perspective.
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Ed
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Edster....there is a much better solution. I don't want to start a flurry of 'discussion' as there are some 'purists' who insist upon not modding what PWK designed so this is just my personal opinion, not saying it's better, not saying it's worse, just that it works for me! With that disclaimer, I will tell you that the Klipsch fibreglass/wood horn is IMHO, not without it's own issues. They have a tendency to 'clack', and have been replaced with Altec 511B horns. The 511B's have almost identical sonic properties. Same size, same curvature, 500hz horn, but they are again IMHO, a much more solid unit. Less prone to 'flexing' and shape distortions. True, they can ring like the bejesus if not properly installed, supported and dampened. However, the result is once again IMHO a tremendous, spacious and glorious sound. Little bit of 'shoehorning' required to get it into the Belle without disrupting the original visual presentation, but I'm here to tell you it can be done!
T. Brennan, Al K, feel free to help me out here. I know that you two use the 511's, anything to add?
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Ed
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edster00 - Those pics are several months old. I have since experimented with 'toeing in' my KHorns a wee bit.
Bear in mind that as 'elderly' khorns, they came with the curved, almost 'sectoral' type of midhorn that fills the upper apeture completely, rather than the 'newer' straight horn that is currently used. As you know, this mid-horn has a much smaller apeture and is 'straight sided' lending (IMHO) to a much 'tighter focused beam' of sound. There is a single one of these horns on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1335744118 so you can get an idea of the difference between the straight vs. the curved horn 'mouth'. The diff in dispersion is very noticeable. Pronounced. Spacious. Grand. I can personally attest to this as I replaced the mid-horn and all the drivers in my center Belle to mirror the cornerhorns in an effort to more closely match the sonic qualities. Really opened up the 'sweet spot'. Bottom line is that I did not notice a pronounced difference when I toe'd in.
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Ed
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Hey thanks for the kind words edster00. The Khorns are pre-55's. I would place their date by the components inside at '52, '53 or perhaps '54's. The only evidence that they are the real McCoy are the proliferation of 'approved by PWK' faded yellow labels on all pieces, drivers, networks and horns. They were passed on to me by my father who told me eons ago (before I was conciously aware of what they were) that they were custom built by Klipsch. I remember as a youth they had real cane grilles. Walnut. Oiled. He had evidently had one built prior to stereo, when Klipsch apparently did some custom builds, then hauled it back to hope around 1959 and had them build another to match with the same components as was in the first one. He was always in awe of how ablidging and 'customer oriented' the facility was then.
Admittedly, they need proper corners. The 'roomward' side has been sealed up with 3/4" ply until I can do the false wall thing or something else.
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Ed
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quote:
Klipsch has not been able to get out of the corner, period. These speakers can. You don't need a corner at all. don't you realize what that means?
Uh....umm.....means I'd have to shoot the video over a taller obstacle than my Belle center, which I already have had to remove the base riser from for height considerations........
quote:
these speakers have patented horn designs. They are literally FOLDED inside. the horn behaves at twice it's length (or close to it). (40hz?)
Uh.....um......isn't the 'patented design' horn in my Khorns and Belle folded too.....?
Alright, alright, I'll lay off. Obviously gyoko is pleased with his speaker and just wants to pass his perspective to the rest of us for consideration.
GYOKO - Thanks for the reply. I for one no longer think of you as a 'shill'. Had my doubts based upon the 'mob mentality'
here, but in the end have to say 'thanks' for affording us all some highly entertaining reading this past week......though in all seriousness, personally, I do not see much from this company to get too excited about. Running a multi-channel setup, I feel it is more important than just 'numbers' to try and match the sonic qualities of your setup. I cannot see how implementing another speaker mfg's 2-way design, with it's different drivers can possibly be a better sonic/tonal/timbre match than a Belle Klipsch and a Khorn. ------------------
Ed
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Hi Ed,
Nothing of real substance to add here. Just wanted to inform that the Klipschorn mains, Belle center and Cornwall rears is the exact setup I am currently running for that 'HT' experience. It does not disappoint!
My HT room is a modest 20x20. Barely big enough. The eventual (5 year plan?) is to push out the 'viewing wall' about 10 ft and either widen a tad or perhaps reconfig so the the Khorns can settle into the corners proper.
Only other thing I would highly recommend is to upgrade (if you don't already have) your video to the grandeur befitting an all Heritage PWK audio setup. That way you don't have 'holy toledo' audio matched with 'ah, that's cool' video. I don't have anything fancy for a front projector as you can get carried away with high end projectors that really offer only 'hair splitting' differences to a modest priced ($2000 - $3000) DLP projector. Mine is an InFocus 350 and it provides all the grandeur I can stomach. NO, all you paranoids, I'm not a 'shill' for InFocus! Just damn impressed with the picture quality (It's HD compatible) and want to pass on my impressions. Take it for what it's worth to you! Screen size is 10ft x 5ft which at 15 feet back fills your field of vision perfectly.
Good luck on your project!
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Ed
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quote:This speaker, which they call the "Carlron", is the only loudspeaker that I would even consider using with my venerable K-horns
What about a Belle?
Patent infringement and 'copycatting' notwithstanding, I am hard pressed to believe that no matter how fine a speaker, and these do look fine, the sonic and tonal and timbre qualities would be a 'match' since the 'internal mechanics' are quite different.
'OVERWHELMING'.....quite possible. 'UNBELIEVABLE'.....perhaps. 'MATCH'.....well......
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Ed
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Silicone sealer!!! The type you'd use on your fishtank. After sending vintage 'gems' for reconing only to get back crappola, I use this method for almost every tear, rip or suspect spots. Excellent adhesion in tandem with excellent flexibility, The only thing it doesn't do is bridge large holes!
For your 1" slit, smear some on your finger and apply a thin coat to topside and backside. Works equally well for surrounds as for 'cone proper' damage. Let dry overnight and I will bet you you cannot tell the difference from the other unblemished one. I wouldn't use rubber cement for a surround problem.....not enough flexibility and will harden and crack with age. Silicone sealer is timeless!
Good luck
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Ed
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I must confess to yet another vote for SRV. The outpouring of soul thru fingers as evidenced by his 'never play it twice the same way' but always just flows and sounds perfect is what does it for me. Lots more technically adept and that's nice too, but seeing Stevie's eyes roll back into his head as the blues effortlessly (like a well placed Klipschorn) and relentlessly flow out drops my jaw every time.
Others that stand out for me:
Gilmore. Especially live from the 74 - 77 timeframe. The last show of Floyd's Animals Tour from Montreal has to be his best. If you ever get a chance to pick up this boot and you like the DSOM - Animals era Floyd sound, you will not be disappointed!
Frank Marino - One of the best. Extremely tight.
Trower - Loudest guitar player I've ever heard! Bar none.
The trio of Gaines/Collins and Rossington.
Jorma Kaukonen - Saw him on Telegraph Ave in Berkley as a teen one Sat afternoon. I remember thinking then he was the best I've ever heard. Tremendous.
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Since DD5.1 and DTS have 6 discreet channels rather than "matrix'd" 2 channel stereo, can you even GET accurate phantom center channel reproduction? Seems to me like you'd be limiting yourself to your receiver's best attempt at creating a 'phantom' Pro Logic which, even at it's best IMHO pales to the 'true' 5.1 digital experience.
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Like Khorn58, my khorns also have the Stephens and I must say that they are a spectacular driver. I read that the 103LX2's were manufactured as a horn driver rather than a 'stand alone' bass reflex type. Perhaps the 150CX was intended for a different use?
After all, if I'm not mistaken (and could be that I am), this (103LX2) was PWK's original khorn driver as was the sonically similar EV 15"-er.
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Ed
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With the possible exception of that rather directional mid-horn (heritage) and as you all have said, I think the PWK passage included in Chris Robinson's sig sums it up nicely:
quote:If you don't like what is coming out, you wouldn't like what is going in." -PWK-
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Ed
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Hi Chris, as far as mod to your upper section....I wouldn't suggest anything too radical. Remember, we are now at the point of splitting hairs which have left the realm of 'scientific' improvements and are more into the realm of 'perceived' or 'preferential' improvements as they pertain to mods.
I would suggest that you 'digest' the sound of the ALK's in your Khorns for a good while and go from there. To be honest, the only reason I modded my center Belle was not so much to 'improve', but rather to match the '50's era Khorn sound to create an even sonic and tonal soundstage across the front of my HT setup.
I believe that there is verbage here on this board that refers to a (I think) 6Khz flare with the push-type connectors on the K55V, and that the K55V's with the (again I think) solder type connectors do not possess this 'flare'. I additionally believe that I read that not all the push type K55V's had this issue. Perhaps a more learned member can clarify for us both once again. However, from my experience, it sounds to my ears that the K55V (push type) kind of has a 'dimmunitive' sound rather than what I would consider a 'flare'. Unscientific of course. Maybe my ears have tonal 'gaps' at certain freqs?
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Ed
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MBM,
Additional to the great advice already posted, you might try and plug your weight/dimensions into the Fed Ex table. I recently had two Cornwalls shipped from Dallas to Sacto for $51/per....Fed Ex GROUND. Took 4 days and arrived unmolested.
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Ed
can have color misalignment at the point of each tube when there is no 'alignment' involved at that point.
here, but in the end have to say 'thanks' for affording us all some highly entertaining reading this past week......though in all seriousness, personally, I do not see much from this company to get too excited about. Running a multi-channel setup, I feel it is more important than just 'numbers' to try and match the sonic qualities of your setup. I cannot see how implementing another speaker mfg's 2-way design, with it's different drivers can possibly be a better sonic/tonal/timbre match than a Belle Klipsch and a Khorn.
at the risk of being redundant...
in Technical/Restorations
Posted
Hi Tom,
WRT the Stephens woofers, they came in early K-horns in the '40s and '50s. I didn't see the 103LX2's on e-bay as you mentioned, but they would work for you as well as: Stephens P52LX2, E-V 15 WK, Klipsch K-33-J, Klipsch K33-P, Klipsch K-33-E. All these were used at one time or another in some numbers. I think it was Tom Brennen who has had very good results using the Altec 515's.
For the midrange, I would seriously consider mating a K-55-V or a University SAHF driver to an Altec 511B horn.
Tweeter is really a personal preference as to how 'foward' or 'hot' you like your speakers to sound. Personally, I do not favor the K-77. Though a good unit, it's a little to 'in your face' for my taste. Call me weird, but I like the more understated 16 ohm sound the Mid T/4401 combo provides.
I have found the older oil filled 'AA' networks to work very well with this setup in my center Belle (103LX2 woof, SAHF/511B mid, Mid-T/4401 tweet). I would suspect that the La Scala would produce similar results.
Have fun!
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Ed