edwardre
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Posts posted by edwardre
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Thanks all. Much has been made of late with regards to this sound over that sound so I just wanted to underline the part about 'personal preferance'!
Yes Duval. I have had opportunity to listen to a pair of relatively 'new' Khorns, I think '84's or '85's, which invokes another story.
As mentioned in previous posts, my pre '55 Khorns were passed on to me by my father. What happened was that about '86, he came upon a deal he just could not pass up. 1984 or 1985 Khorns still in the box, never opened for $400. Naturally he swooped them up like shot from gun. Being mint, he felt that he would get less grief from my mom for these 'big crates' in her living room and 'offed' the somewhat dated Khorns on me as I was not married at the time so I did not have to consider the WAF. Personally, I prefer the look of these vintage gems over the current design.
I have had the opportunity to listen to them at length when visiting. No A/B testing available, but to me they sound very close to the '77's I had. Perhaps a bit more 'forward' or 'in your face' in the upper mid to high range (of course, where else) which I attribute to the difference in mid-drivers and networks. I believe that the '77's were AA's while the '84/85's were AK's. I further believe that the '77's had the K-55V whereas the newer have the K-55M's which to me sounds 'hotter'.
In any event, suffice to say that everytime he's over he's kicking himself for ever letting them go! Sit's there on the couch shaking his head saying 'man-oh-man'!
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Ed
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aab - I think I recall the ones that were on e-bay a bit ago to have the tweeters missing but the tweeter holes present. These don't appear to have the holes. But the cloth looks factory.
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Guess I missed this post the first time out. Thanks for bringing it topside!
Jobman, Jazman, you're not quite alone. I'm just the other side of Sacto. A couple hour drive for you but if your 'in the hood', drop me a 'head's up' and come over. Naturally goes for anyone else interested.
HT Setup is pre '55 Khorns (LF, RF), '74 Belle (center) and '83 Cornwalls (RR, LR).
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I have had the same issue with my KSW200. Seems like it doesn't like certain wall plugs. Horrendous humming. Intolerable. The best solution was - I kid you not - first I tried a 3 prong to 2 adapter. Plugged this into the cheapest long (like 12 or 15 footer) extension cord on the market....think $1.99 rings a bell, then plugged it into different outlets until it went away. It did. No issue as long as it's in that receptacle. Nothing else worked. Tried the heavy duty 3 prong extension cord. Nope. back to el cheapo.
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Yes Duval, I have listened to both. As close to 'side by side' as it gets for cornerhorns. Had stock '77's at one time in the corners and pre '55's sealed up with 3/4 ply next to. To me, the difference was striking. Both sound tremendous. However, the older ones IMO sound more natural and spacious.
The bass is 'better' (as a matter of personal preference) in the older pair. Goes deeper and punches out with far more authority. Chest rumbling bass as opposed to just damn fine bass. The older pair has chest and jaw exciting bass even at low listening volumes, while the newer pair loses this effect as you turn the volume down. The pre '55's came with the Stephens Trusonic 103LX2's for the bass engine. 15" and weighing in at over 25lbs this driver is considered by many as the finest bass driver the Klipsch factory ever mounted in it's folded horn. Exceptionally efficient. We all know of the K-33 bass horn the '77's were equipped with. Fairly efficient, under 10lbs with a short throw which produces a very consistant 'Klipsch bass' sound.
I prefer the midrange of the older ones. It is sweet and dispersive. The fiberglass/wood sectoral type horn of the older ones creates a very wide soundstage and all but eliminates the 'sweet spot' that the straight horns are (in)famous for. Mine have the University SAHF midrange driver. This is a very utilitarian driver. Practically indestructable. I've seen these with 2 inch dents in them sound as sweet as a NOS. This driver has a very natural sound that compliments the woofer and tweeter perfectly. I believe that the '77's had the K55V. The ones with the push connectors. This driver is hearty as well. It's shortfalls are well documented on this board.
The tweeter in the old Khorns is the 'sleeper' component. It is the University 4401 Mid-T. As with all the components of this era, I believe that this tweeter was selected to represent Klipsch because of it's natural sound and it's seamless coexistance with the bass and midrange. Absolutely no harsh shrillness. Zero. Side by side with the '77's, I would have to say that this single component is easily identified as responsible for the greatest difference in sound. To my ears, the K-77 has a 'ringing' quality that can be very fatigueing to me.
Network wise, the '77's had the AA's. The AA's strengths and weakness' are also well documented on this board. The older Khorns have the K-500-5000. With crossover points at 500 and 5Khz, this is a fairly robust unit. Over two feet long and 6 inches wide, it sports 3 inch hand wound chokes and large oil filled caps. Again, and much like the 'B' network of the CW's, this is a basic, natural and warm sounding network.
Hope I haven't rambled on too much for you!
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Hi Mike,
I finished refinishing one of my CW's. Well almost, still need to Watco. Anyway, I ended up fabricating these risers. They are 4" along the front sloping to 3" at the rear, giving the CW a 'kicked upward' stance. Evidently, not unlike a Heresy riser. I have had the opportunity to preview them side to side with the as yet unfinished CW and I can hear a difference. The sound now projects up over the back of the couch better and I don't know if it's subtle room placement variances, but both the missus and I 'feel' the sound more.
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Flipped then Corned,
Understand your space constraints, but if you have enough room to pull those behemoth's out of the corner a tad, I have found that there is actually more. Try 2-3 feet, toed toward's your ears.
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Huh??? $50?????? Come on! What's up with that??? That's better than finding money in the street.
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quote:
I know I have a tendency to get anal from time to time and everyone here just puts up with me and responds with class post after class post.
Not a problem....least we know you're not dead. In fact, your boyish exuberence is quite refreshing, in an anal kind of way.....
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Please become ONE with your Klipsch Specifications before speaking out of line. The Cornwalls are MDF with a Real Wood Finish, just like the RF 7s. I happen to own a set of KG-4s and RF 7s, and the cabinets are both very well built. I am not trying to compare the KG-4s to the Cornwalls, but the cabinet construction is the same.
As stated by many and supported here as well, my '83's are 3/4ply.
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One more thing, Klipsch speakers do hold up remarkably well, but everything does deteriorate with age and use. It may happen so gradually that you dont notice it. Speakers are subjected to change in air temperatures, humidity, and ultraviolet sunlight; these will eventually take a toll on older speakers. Not to mention they do have moving parts that simply cannot perform like new if they were built in the late 80s.
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I still cannot see purchasing a 20-year-old speaker verse new ones. Believe me, I am not questioning the sound and/or quality of a Cornwall. If I had the money in college I would have purchased them instead of the KG4's. I still cannot see spending $800 to $1,000 on a pair of 20-year-old speakers. What about natures natural wear and tear? What does it cost to replace the Cornwall's woofer??
Hmmmm....My pre '55 Khorns are as pristine as the day they were shipped. The woofers look and sound like they were mfg'd this morning. Damn near 1/2 century later and I still have not found an equal.
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Led Zeppelin III sounds like Robert Plant is in my living room performing live.
I too favor the mighty Zep. Floyd, Skynyrd and Stevie Ray are up there on my list as well. However, the missus came home last night with 'Immortal Beloved' on DVD. You know, the Beethoven flick. Been awhile since I'd heard classical through the Khorn/Belle/Cornwall setup. Oh my. What sound. I cannot imagine an 'RF7' could do justice to this. Grandeur. Talk about in your living room performing live. Anyone who thinks that this sound is 'like a PA' simply has not experienced. Subtle and powerful with dynamics like words can never fully explain.
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Almost finished with the first CW. Still have to apply the Watco, but will wait for another week or so. I apologize for the crappy pic, but my ancient digital camera is max 640x480 res. Hopefully, you can get an idea though.
Missing from my earlier procedure testimonial is that I covered the top edges. With sweat pouring from brow, I used a router to take down the exposed ply edges and applied walnut edge veneer. I also edge veneer'd the face to cover the exposed ply edges. WAF, you know. Finally, I fabricated risers. 4" along the front sloping to 3" along the rear. This gives the CW a 'kicked upward' stance which hopefully will help project the sound up and over the couch back. One more to go!
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HERITAGE BIGOTS???? Well, that's a rather unflattering accusation....I would prefer to think of it as 'Heritage supporters'. 'Lay down'?? I would much rather you all 'roll over and pee.....'
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:Something to think about: You should thank God for Reference - because it is the sales of Reference which will allow Klipsch to resurrect your beloved earbleeders"
Hmmmm.....something else to think about: YOU should thank god for Heritage - because without the overwhelming half century success of Heritage, there would be no 'Klipsch' left to create your beloved 'screechboxes'
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dewang wrote:
Edwarde: Whatever. I'm too tired and annoyed to deal with your comments in an intelligent manner. I would just like to point out that 99% of everything that has ever been on the market or is on the market currently is built with MDF and glue. Just because something is built with plywood and screws doesn't mean it is going to sound good. What the hell kind of logic is that?
Whoa! Ease up man! A thousand pardons if differing views lead to 'tired and annoyed'. I've heard that listening to those new fangled RF's can be fatiguing, even leading to irritability but jeez......might I suggest a shot and a brewski? Hair trigger defense mechanism, eh?
Agreed. You must have been tired. Missed the Bose analogy altogether. I was referring to the longevity of MDF & glue, not the sound qualities threrof.
All kidding aside, I've had occasion to listen to a set of RF7's and was duly impressed. Very nice sound indeed. My personal preference for the big crates does not cloud my objectivity. Hopefully, my good natured ribbing has not ruffled your plumage too much and was taken in the spirit it was intended!
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Cool! My '83 CW's have the B-3. I've an extra set of AA's that will now be converted to CW B's.
Thanks JBEK for asking the question. Thanks Al for the answers!
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That anyone can state that the sound from one type of speaker is better than another is....well....kind of....ridiculous. Humorous and damn fine entertainment, but ridiculous none the less. I thought it was all a matter of preference?
For instance, I prefer the heritage sound over the 'fake pseudo electronic enhanced' 'excessive high hat effect' of a set of RF7's. That's just my ear's interpretation of the sonic charicteristics of the new breed of Klipsch sound, and in no way is meant to deride, chastise, pass judgement or dog another's lack of musical taste.
Far be it for me to point out that you can get the same 'high end' sound by simply detuning your tuner slightly off the channel. All the 'high end fuzz' you ever need right there.
Furthermore, a lesser man, with intentions on inciting friction upon this noble board would perhaps point out that a pair of....ahem....BOSE speakers look to be made of the same MDF/glue scheme.....
Yes, yes....in the final analysis, who am I to proclaim that heritage is better than current? Sooner or later those that are not true believers will at first become closet heritage fans. Then, as time passes and you grow out of this phase you're stuck in....you too will realize that the 'high end' sound you so crave has another name: COLORATION. Yes friends, with maturity comes clarity. Clarity of vision that you will come to understand requires clarity of sound. Then you will be ready to discover the uncharted worlds of true sound and will realize that there is only one true sound....and that thy name is Heritage. Crystal clear. Unpolluted. Natural. Without color. Adds nothing, takes nothing. Zero calories. As sound is live.
Flame away if you must. Disagree as you will. But you cannot contest that it is the natural clarity offered by the heritage line that sets it apart from all other speakers. Recall, not 'better', just unequaled 'real'.
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I was just the opposite. Wanted a set of Chorus (I's preferably) for rear surrounds but the price on e-bay was a little high....~$800. Was holding out until a pair was in my range and stumbled upon the Cornwalls for $500. Oh well, what's one to do? Had to 'settle' for the Walls. Not sorry in the least. Damn pleased in fact.
Back on topic now.....these CW's were not finished in a motiff that was condusive to the rest of my speakers....in other words, to me, they were butt ugly. Nothing wrong with them mind you, just not my color scheme. I'm an oiled dark walnut with black grilles kind of person, these were cheesy blond/green varnish over raw birch with white-ish grilles.
Bloom, I used Jasco stripper to get the excessive varnish off. The directions on the can were exactly followed and I had no problem. Crap came off like wet snot. After cleaning off the remainder of the stripper with a moist cloth, I gave the wood a light sanding with 200 grit sandpaper. LIGHT sanding is the key. Once the wood was bared, I applied a base coat of dark walnut minwax, followed by a couple of coats of red mahogany. After a few days, I applied Watco oil on. Virtually identical to the WO's of my other speaks.
For the grilles, I removed the bazillion staples then, using Klipsch black cloth, stretched and stapled. Piece of cake.
Good luck.
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Welcome. Seen 'em go for high $300's all the way up to about $1100 on e-bay, condition dependant.
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Good2B.....mine are '83's. "Y"s. They have the B-3.
Shapeshifter.....what kind of difference in sound did you experience going from the B-3 to the B? My\ine are new to me and I would like to 'digest' the B-3 sound before going down mod road, just logging experiences now.
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Yeah, $650 might do it. If not, there's another guy trying to sell a pair of Walnut '70's era CW's on this BB for $650 in your neck of the woods. Might be worth checking them both. Maybe you can get them into a selling war and score them for less. Good luck!
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Stripping,sanding and refinishing my new CW's. Looking forward, I was thinking of whether or not to fabricate risers as mine did not come equipped.
Was wondering what other members think on this subject? I think that I definately want to make some sort of risers, in the very least to project the sound over the back of the couch (using as rears). How high? Kicked slightly upwards? Filled with sand or something to anchor? What are the dimensions of stock risers and are you pleased with them?
Thanks
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I find that using the SPL and 'properly' calibrating my system via Avia, Vid Essentials, etc likewise does not adequately produce what I'm looking for in a HT system. I consider my KSW200 sub to be the weak link as it's surrounded by an army of big old heritage's which naturally have been set to 'large'.
My solution to achieve the 'feel' I want has been to dial LF,C,LR,RL,& RR to identical levels using the SPL meter, and crank up the bass considerably from there.
Hear it all. Feel it all. Experience it all.
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So.....what type of s/n convention was used after '85 and prior to '62?
I could have swore that my Belle was of "O" vintage which I had mentally identified as a '74. I'll be checking that as soon as I get home tonight!
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What does he think he wants for these? I just bought a pair virtually the same...."Y" s/n's....'83's? C-BR's. However, contrary to Colin's reckoning, my CW's have the B-3 nets, so it could stand to reason that these potential '84's you're considering have these nets as well. I'm not a 'net-man' like so many others here so I can not offer testimonial as to the B/B-2/B-3 comparisons. Suffice to say that if you indeed make the purchase with the intent to resell, do not listen to them or you'll likely have KG4.2's listed on e-bay rather than CW's!!
Hey Colin.....can you speak to B vs. B-2 vs. B-3 networks?
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20 miles away? I would most certainly set up an appointment with the seller to give them a peek-see to validate cosmetic and functional quality. The picture with the label identifies them as indeed CD-BR's. As stated here, they did not ship with grilles but it is my understanding that a grille kit was available from Klipsch to add. Perhaps that's where the grilles came from? Curious is the darker line going across the front of the tops.
As far as using them as rear surrounds, I've used my recently aquired CW's for rears in tandem with KHorn mains and a center Belle for about a week now to tremendous satisfaction!
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Wally, it is with the greatest respect that I disagree with John. I have pre-55 Khorns. They came with the fibreglass/wood sectoral horns. To my ears, they have a grandeur unequaled by the newer straight horns. With the sectorals, there is no 'sweet spot', but rather the whole room is sweet. I replaced my horns however because of the fibreglass' tendancy to 'clack', and replaced with Altec 511b's. These possess almost identical properties, but with a little rope caulk, do not ring, clack or 'pollute' the sound.
I recently removed the straight horn from my center belle and replaced it with a 511b. HUGE difference in overall sound dispersion and quality.
$3000.....ooooh. Little steep. For half that you could score a newer set of Khorns and replace the components with vintage.
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Ed
cornwall risers
in Technical/Restorations
Posted
Don't know about the CW as I have 'aftermarket' risers.
However, my Belle has the riser (think they all did to allow for the bass hatch) and it's attached with wood screws screwed into the bottom of the bass bin. Removable indeed.
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Ed