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Posts posted by Heritage_Head

  1. 9 minutes ago, Islander said:


    That won't get it done.  If you're trying to put together something that will approximate the performance of Jubilees, then you need sources that are of the same calibre, meaning excellent power amps and a good preamp, and so on, including a pro processor, not a cheap one.  It would be better to keep saving, putting aside whatever you can afford, and keep looking for bargains, until you have the budget to buy the right stuff.  You can often save lots that way.  You can wind up surprised at how much you've spent, and at the same time surprised at how much you've saved.

    As much as I would love to get into the Jubilee level (yes please!). That was never really what my expectation was here. A nice upgrade over what I currently have. If that’s possible (with my budget and space). 

  2. 4 minutes ago, geoff. said:


    In lieu of the last post by Islander, I guess a prudent question would be what is the ballpark on how much you are expecting to spend, all said and done?


    Horns, drivers, crossovers, shipping, and if you're really lucky, taxes.

    Budget all done 1kish…I can get a pair of 510s with DE75s from a member on here for $400. That leaves about 600 for the rest. 

  3. 6 minutes ago, Islander said:


    Well, it turned out to be more than I expected.  This was back in 2008, when the OG or UG Jubilees were around only $7,000, with free delivery in the main 50 states.  New, with warranty.  Putting together a pair of JubScalas, when I already had the speakers and one amplifier, cost me somewhere around $4000-4500, buying used stuff, like the Dx-38 processor from a Guitar Center in California, the second amplifier from a Forum member in Seattle (I drove down there to hear it and pick it up), the K510 horns and K-69-A drivers from another Forum member, this one in Tennessee or somewhere around there.  That was the original JubScala setup, with the speaker shown in the picture.


    The upgrades came later, first the La Scala IIs, then the 402 horns.  The K402 horns are huge, a full metre across.  But I did eventually buy them, which meant a trip to the mainland, which costs $200-250, including gas and food, if you bring a friend. 


    The only drawback to the actual Jubilees was their size.  They're 41 inches across, so I would've had to shift some stuff to fit them into my living room, but it probably would have been the better value, especially if I was starting from scratch, with no La Scalas.  Of course, now I've upgraded to La Scala IIs, and K402 horns with K691 drivers.  At this point, I've got several tens of thousands into the system, but on the other hand, by buying used, I saved many tens of thousands.  There are lots of enablers on this forum, and I'm sometimes one of them.  It's fun to see everybody's systems develop, but that's not for everybody.


    I started this message a day ago, but then I headed over to the nearest A/V shop for an event day, when some of the company reps were there.  I've met the Audio quest guy and the Yamaha guy couple of times, and even Vince Bruzzese from Totem speakers was there.


    Anyway, I hope this info is helpful.  Let me know if you have any questions.

    If only I had the space, and the money… Some day maybe 🤞

    • Like 1
  4. 5 minutes ago, Coytee said:

    I don't mean to speak for him, he'll remind me of when I was groveling like a lap-dog to buy some Undergrounders....


    That said, I'd speculate his thoughts are


    "The passive is already out there.....been there, done that... if you choose to utilize a different driver than the one diagramed, that's on you....  what do you expect me to do....  anytime someone wants to do this, drop what I'm doing (undoubtedly looking at dirty curves) and obtain their driver of choice and figure it out for them?  Nope....  that's it....  give me either 30 laps around the building OR, 30 minutes of listening to Marie singing Paper Roses.....


    Now, that puppy yapping dude Coytee...  lemme tell you, he's got it on and knows it all....  yeah, just like a puppy knows where to go pee when you first bring him home....  if not on your favorite rug or furniture....  possibly on your leg.  Gotta watch-out for dudes that slobber over underground speakers.  Someone bi*** slap him for me.


    He does however, know how to send a nice set of bbq ribs and home grown blueberries....."



    Yeah, Roy may not be saying the above out loud, but it's probably floating in the back of his head, right behind some of those 'dirty curves' he's seen over his career.


    You do this.....  you go home, ask your wife if you can discuss "dirty curves" with a bunch of dudes.....  you see how long it is before you get served by her attorney.  That Roy knows  how to walk a fine line.



    Lol…. Just looking for suggestions (not a cure for cancer) 😊.

  5. 1 minute ago, Emile said:

    Pretty sure you can use the zone-2 preouts as an input to a DSP. Then feed the "processed signal" into another amp. Even a cheap Chinese class D amp will do :)  

    You are correct that zone two is technically a pre-out (for like a tape out), but wouldn’t that be a full signal and not just left and right front in a 5.1 (for example)?

    • Like 1
  6. 54 minutes ago, Emile said:

    Yes; if the crossover "was" at say 500Hz, it will be at 250Hz with an 8 ohm driver :( (Not 100% sure ... just from memory.)

    I am unfortunately not advanced enough to understand the complexity of all of that if I’m being honest. I understand Ohm and xo pretty good. Does it mean basically that if you don’t have the right driver it will absorb too much power and be too loud if it’s not the right resistance? (Is that what you mean) 

    • Like 1
  7. 1 hour ago, Emile said:

    Pls advise what amp you are using. Know you do NOT want to go active, but it seems the easiest solution ... and it might even be cheaper buying a pre-amp and a DSP vs buying many different passive crossovers (and maybe different drivers) and never getting it "right." :) 

    Totally agree sir…. I recently purchased a pioneer elite VSX-LX305 receiver… pretty spendy and I’m still not sure if I’m going to keep it. Its awesome, and really wanted to try out the new Dirac live. It has no pre-outs,  and for $1400 you would  think it would but it doesn’t. I may still return it, and buy something else with pre outs.. I run almost a full heritage system so needing extra amplifiers isn’t really required. 

    • Like 1
  8. 16 hours ago, geoff. said:



    For the love of all that is sacred, please don't do this.


    I think that would be a recipe for a "cascading series of failures".


    I have wondered about putting an 8 ohm resistor in place of the tweeter, but   even that would create issues.


    In this particular, and pretty much all other, un-EQ'd crossovers the midrange would overpower the treble.


    If you go to the websites of any driver manufacturers you can find their FR charts. It is easily 7db difference in the mids and highs.



    Is there any chance that when running Dirac live (or other room correction programs).. some of these issues may be fixed? Or is that just wishful thinking? 

  9. 3 hours ago, Schu said:

    you can get close, but that timing coherence remains a 'slight' issue.

    you're opposed to active?

    I’m not opposed to active. Its just the cost, and the extra modifications that I would have to do. It would require pre outs (that I don’t have currently)……external extra amplification. I have an offer to buy 510s with DE 75s drivers for $400..if I could get something that would make this work all spent 1k ish I will do it (so about $600 extra after I buy the horns and drivers for everything else). 

  10. 14 minutes ago, jjptkd said:


     You could try it with and without, I'd try it without first just to hear what the 510 combo will do on its own. One thing to consider the 4500 crossover is designed for a mid driver with a 16ohm (12ohm) driver so the actual crossover point will be a bit different, should OK and safe as long as you don't blast it.

    Please feel free to correct me on this, but isn’t the woofer the biggest issue when it comes to resistance?

  11. 1 minute ago, jjptkd said:


    The newer k-691 is a DE75 with a "hardened?" diaphragm IIRC. The two bass bins should have similar sensitivity though the 904's should have a much broader usable frequency band, 45hz-800? vs the 55hz-400?? The older crossovers didn't have a high freq cut on the mid horn as the driver had a natural roll off but the k510/k75 needs some EQ to get the high end from what I understand. If you do hook up the the horn to your 4500 crossover I'd just plug it into the mid out only don't combine the tweeter output with it. 

    Would you suggest leaving the tweeter (k77) hooked up as well then? 

  12. 1 minute ago, Heritage_Head said:

    I’m sure others will chime in, and tell me I'm crazy 😜 lol…. it might be interesting to just try and run the regular crossover I have now (take the two connectors that connect the K 55, and the K 77…. Then just run both of them right into the 510 (stand way back 🙄) and see what happens? 

    If anyone on here has tried this please chime in and tell me what happened.

  13. 21 minutes ago, Coytee said:

    Here's another one that I found.


    The thing is....  only a handful of drivers have actually been voiced to the 510, especially on top of a LaScala or other bass bin.  There are a hundred 2" drivers I suppose but in the realm of actually tried, tested, I'd venture to guess less than 4-6 (but I honestly have no clue)


    This is where an active will help you as you can adjust things more on the fly, in your room to taylor the sound without having to take the passive apart, buy different parts....try it....  take it apart, try different parts....try it....take it apart....


    With an active, you just keep dialing things in.


    Just for kicks, if I were you, I'd look on Ebay for used EV DX-38's if you don't intend on every adding a sub to the system.  The EV will do 2-in and 4 out or a pair of stereo speakers and no other.  More precisely, it will do two 2-way speakers.  If you would want to add a sub later on, then getting a 4-in 8 out would give you better options.  This is why I pulled the EV out of my system and replaced it with a Xilica.


    Let me rephrase that....this is why I pulled BOTH Ev's out of the system,. so I could replace them BOTH with a single unit that covered everything.



    JUB 510 69.pdf 14.08 kB · 1 download

    The DE75 is what was used on the 904s I had. It was the stock driver then. No clue what it might be now. But I bought them brand new 6-7 years ago. Of course I do realize that the transition from 904 bass bin might be a completely different animal to a la scala? 

  14. *** please no mention of any unaffiliated Klipsch companies in this thread***

    So I have a line on a pair of 510s with DE75 drivers, and I would need crossovers to make it all work….suggestions please (passive only)


    Note: please pm me info if your not sure if it should be posted here (or text/email me 651-470-4284  greenbayes@hotmail.com)




    • Like 1
  15. 41 minutes ago, Schu said:

    maybe because it doesn't fall under the PRO category... regardless of what horn you use, it is a modification which is Technical/Restorations

    I could totally live with that 👍. But can’t they just move it, or at least let me know that it was deleted for that reason so I don’t just turn around and start another thread in the wrong place again?  I mean what are we doing if at the very bare minimum we can’t communicate?

    • Haha 1
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