Brunt
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Posts posted by Brunt
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Thanks for the pic! Will experiment some more on my days off this week...
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Using plain old Dolby Pro-Logic IIx: Movie is the most common way. Contrary to popular belief, Pro Logic doesn't alter everything, it just matrixes what isn't there to begin with. So it'll matrix stereo into all seven (or six) channels, but if it's a discrete 5.1 signal it will only touch the rears. Other proprietary options include Logic 7 on HK equipment, and less commonly, DTS Neo:6. THX Cinema usually uses the default Dolby Pro-Logic II algorithm, and then applies their proprietary filters on top of it.
As for your random matrixing, if a disc is encoded with an EX tag, it automatically asks the receiver to matrix it. Content with EX tags have discrete content matrixed the other way (discrete sixth channel information downmixed into the side surround channels), that is then pulled back out by Pro Logic into 6.1 with the surround backs operating as one "channel". It's not quite as good as discrete 6.1 or 7.1, but it's an improvement. In your Onkyo receiver, there should be a setting that allows you to tell the receiver what to do with EX tagged material when it encounters it. By default, it's set to matrix automatically. "Matrix EX" doesn't change the inherent quality of the signal, it just mixes information from the surround sides into the rears...
EDIT: For owners of recent Onkyo/Integra receivers, you can go into the menu, then go "3. Audio Adjust" -> "3-2 Dolby" -> "Dolby EX" and select either auto or manual. Setting it to manual will override the default EX tags and force your receiver to use the audio format you have selected as the default for that input...
FYI, my Lord of The Rings is a Blu Ray...do Blu Rays have EX tags? I thought DTS EX was a DVD only format?
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So using Dolby Pro-Logic IIx: Movie will matrix the rears but not alter the quality of the other 5 channels in any way? If so, sounds like what I need.
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My receiver, Onkyo HT RC180, seems to matrix DTS HD 5.1 content into 7.1 almost at random. If I play some 5.1 Blu Rays and want to matrix side surround info into the rears, what do I select on the receiver? I want to keep the DTS HD or TrueHD audio quality, but make use of my 2 rear surrounds. When I stick in Lord of The Rings, for example, it shows DTS HD on the receiver, but a little "matrix EX" is automatically lit up and the rear surrounds are also lit up on the little diagram of my setup to the left of the main info on the receiver.
When I watched Sucker Punch last night (also DTS HD), the only way I could find to make use of rears was to select THX Cinema on receiver which changed the overall quality of the audio instead of just matrixing the surrounds and keeping the other channels the same DTS HD quality.
Any thoughts? I'm researching what i can but it's hard to find a simple, direct answer on Onkyo forums. Any help or comments would be greatly appreciated! -
Bought the last set of 6 in town for $88.00 today. Pretty pumped to watch them! They are 2.35:1 but only DTS 6.1. Where's the 7.1? Oh well. Should keep the fam and I pretty busy with those and the three bonus disks.
One word on the sound. AMAZING!
Slightly disagree. I have the original trilogy, not the entire Saga. One thing that was obvious to me is that people need to pump the breaks on audio expectations. These films were still made 30 years ago and the sound effects reminds you of that. I have NEVER found my Klipsch gear fatigueing in any way, but after watching the first two films I had a headache. The music, which sounds good, is so brassy that coupled with the very brassy/shrill blaster sound effects it really does a number on your ears.
Make no mistake, IMO these films do NOT sound like any of the newer audio showcase blu rays out there. They may blow away the Star Wars DVD's, they may make your favorite movies of all time sound great because you want them too, but I honestly was let down a little bit by the sound. I know it's all because of the source material, but just keep that in mind when purchasing...IMO they don't sound fantastic, they sound fantastic for their age!
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Guys, I did everything, including sub crawl that didn't use measuring tools. Sub crawl worked when I had 1 sub but didn't when I needed to place a second. Disregard this thread.
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So you are saying NOT to have any headroom??? You say quanity over quality?? That is plain silly because I see a LOT of quality in his set-up! So I guess my set-up is the same...well I dont like Mcdonalds. Another point is this.... it is HIS system and he is very proud of what he has and he should be, is there a real reason to knock his system?
I call this the "Happy Meal Syndrome". Quantity over quality.Reference Head, that is a VERY nice setup. Everything is in just the right place and the best you would want and arrange in that space for 7.1 !
...........Gary
Dude, given any thought to a projector? You've got thousands tied up in a dedicated room and that display looks small-ish. I'm not trying to be a dick or comment on people's personal finances, but you've proved by posting this pic that you clearly can afford a projector. It looks like you've got the wall space for one too! Maybe the perspective of the pic is throwing me off.
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moved the subs out of the rear wall cutouts? That was a lot of work for you. You must prefer them on the floor on the front. - I dont' blame you. Next you should try simply stacking them in the identical position when you figure out where the best location would be. You may like that better as well.
No just replacing the subs with different ones. I'll update when the new subs cone in. The subs upfront now are only 10 inch subs. I specifically wanted smaller subs for the front stage. BTW brunt has my old a5's and he did try stacking them. We also tried both upfront and behind also 1 in front and 1 behind the listening position. In his room we found both behind the seating position to be the best.
I posted in Powered Subwoofer section sharing our findings...don't know why, no one ever posts there! lol
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Hey guys, just thought I would share with you my sub setup. Keep in mind, I have no measurement tools. Anyway, based on my ears and playing specific movie passages countless times, moving around my room, moving subs, etc....here are my thoughts in my space.
I have a dedicated room that is 21x12x8. My screen is painted on one of the 12 walls making my theater room a rectangle. My couch is more or less at the halfway point of the room lengthwise. Originally I put the subs (dual eD A5-350's) in front of me, one on either side of the center channel between the mains. I thought the output was okay-pretty good. I played with Audyssey, but quickly came to the conclusion that Audyssey boosted certain frequencies too much, giving me an artificial sound. I left it off after this point.
So, I got the longer cables ready and started to try different sub placements. These exact subs were in jasonjcarney's HT and it's a little smaller, but in his room they pound so I knew I wasn't getting everything out of them.
First, I tried them on opposing walls, firing at each other. They were on the midpoint of each wall and I left the phase at zero on both. The results were okay, but not really "better" than both subs up front. I also changed the phase of the rear sub to 180, and that did nothing. At this point I was a bit confused because it started to fly in the face of what some guidelines are. Sound was not more "balanced".
Next, I tried them stacked, in the front left corner of my room. The output was greater, setting phase back to zero for both and leaving sub gain knob at 12:00 like it was for all of these tests. One problem with this setup...weather an illusion or not, but I felt the base was too locatable for my taste.
At this point, jasonjcarney and I threw up are arms and figured, maybe it's my room size? Finally, I tried one more configuration. I put both subs behind the listening position, at the halfway point of the rear wall and up against it, firing at the listener. I set the phase to 180 on both and the output was laughable. Then we set the phase to zero on both and I noticed a huge improvement in sound. It's strange to me because I thought the phase shouldn't have been zero, but it worked. Bass wasn't locatable and output was where I think it should be. Loud, be mindful of your hearing loud. I can only say in my words, that this setup gave me what I feel was the benefits of dual subs should have. More output, but oddly enough, also seemed like good balance too.
My point for the long winded message is this. Read everything you can if your just starting out, but listen to the guys who tell you to try everything in your space. Buy extra long cables if you have to. I never would have thought these 2 subs would sound best in my space in their present configuration, but they do to my ears. Try everything instead of just being underwhelmed because you put your sub(s) where guidelines say you should and don't like the output. Most people here know that, but figured I would share my experience with trial and error.
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I would just pop one or two RB's behind you. You can avoid the in-wall speaker AND still have that flush mount look/sound. I'm surprised people still recommend RS's in that space. I've heard his setup as presently constituted and I don't believe for a second that RS's would sound better in there compared to comparably sized RB's.
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Just to go against the grain, but I use dual ED subs at the moment and I would not recommend going with them! Lol...I'm not kidding.
mostly reliability issues?
Not exactly, at least in my experience. It seems to me to be a quality control issue. If you get a sub from them that works perfectly, and most probably do, it will be great. But, if you don't you may have to deal with their customer service which can be great, but it also can be inconsistent. I had a custom sub designed by them that was junk from the start (it worked, but it's poor design led to extremely low output for a sealed 15") and I got most of my money back with a promise of all of it IF they found an issue once I shipped it back. Long story short, they found the sub to be working great. They designed a poor sub and probably didn't test it before it went out and when they got it back from me and chose to pretend the issue didn't exist. Left a sour taste in my mouth. I do have 2 A5-350's from them now, but only because I could get them from a forum member here who lets me audition gear in my theater room to see how it plays with my stuff.
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Thought...
Tron has cool music, especially in the surrounds, which I feel is overlooked due to it's LFE content.
Recently checked out Lord of the Rings on Bluray...specifically Two Towers which has some great LFE during final battle at Helm's Deep...the explosion the destroys the wall is famtastic.
Also recently check out The Island...great sound during second half of movie.
Star Trek reboot has some tough LFE for some subs.
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Most people recomend the sub that they're currently using (for some reason
). Do you want to build a sub or buy one? Does size matter? Do you have a budget? How loud do you normally listen? Are asthetics important? How big is the room and how many openings?Just to go against the grain, but I use dual ED subs at the moment and I would not recommend going with them! Lol...I'm not kidding.
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Someone buy my rf62ii's and Rc3 so I can buy these dented *******!
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Dont bother with woofed replacement...it will just drive up my cost!
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Brunt,
Budget minded means what to you? How much can you spend for preamp, amp, CD player?
I picked up one of these B&K preamp/tuners about a month ago. Very musical with a subwoofer preout.
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatran&1317739043&/B-K-PT-3-mk-II-B-K-Preamp-Tune
A good choice for a budget CD player. Not a budget player but a budget price.
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtlplay&1318560226&/Denon-DVD-3300-five-channel-DV
Budget amp.
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1318458513&/NAD-2600A-power-amp
Bill
Well, those are good looking deals. The DVD player is in my range and the preamp is at the outer limits of it. In fact, the guy who sold the Denon has a Rotel RC-960BX for sale for what looks like a good price. Unfortunately no remote option.
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Okay guys, finally got my theater room close to done and would like to turn my attention to a nice 2 channel setup in my living room. I would like to keep it budget minded and I have no problem with old, used vintage gear. I would also like to keep it smallish dimension wise per the wife.
Here is what I'd like to do: Listen to CD's and have an Ipod/iphone connection for the wife. Also have remote control of volume.
Here is what I currently own: 1 pair of polk Monitor 30 Speakers. 1 pair of Klipsch HD300 satelites, 1 8 inch low profile sub of the no name variety, 3 Audiosource 100 amps which can output 50wx2 channels or 160w bridged.
Here's what I'm wondering (thinking of buying): using Emotiva products as a frame of reference, would something like the XDA-1 be all I need in addition to a good DVD player for CD's? The reason behind the DVD player (like a cheaper Denon for example) is I have read that they have good enough converters for CD listening for most listeners. My logic is I would connect whatever I use for CD's and my ipod cable to the XDA-1 and then connect each output to an Audiosource amp and bridge each one to each of my Monitor 30's.
Or, would a stereo preamp, like the USP-1 be better for it's ability to incorporate a subwoofer? I don't need all of the extra inputs of the USP so i feel like the extra money is going for the ability to use a sub.
What do you guys think? Where should i be looking and with what I already have what should I be looking to purchase? I know my speakers are weak, so what are some good options there? I'm not able to go floorstander probably because of wife. My livingroom has cathedral ceilings and opens into dinig area and kitchen...so pretty spacious.
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... Actually I could use just 1 channel as rear surround if I went with an RS unit and I think it would work nice. 6.1 style...old school!!!
Even in the "old school" days it was found having 2 speakers in the rear was better than having one to recreate (or create) 6.1. Evidently having one speaker in the back can cause the illusion that the sound is coming from in front of you. Fwiw, I would put a pair of the RB models back there as recommended by THX.
Interesting. Didn't know that.
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Can anyone compare and contrast these surrounds? I decided on surrounds vs bookselves for my side speakers but now I have to decide on size. Probably can't go wrong with the 62's.... but wondering iof anyone has any personal experience with 2 or more sized surrounds I listed here. I can get the rs42's for $225 where the rs62's are gonna be closer to $700-$800. So is the big difference in price worth it? Is there a noticible difference in sound? I'll be able to send 110 watts to the side surrounds BTW
Why the change JJC? I was in favor of you adding the RS series a month or so ago, but with your placement, I could certainly see the usefullness in just having BS speakers. Either way, you've gone through about 4 full Klipsch system upgrades in the past 6-9 months, so if you are going to get RS speakers, get the 62s! No reason to half-a$$ it and upgrade in 60 days.
Whoever scoops up those sloppy seconds will sure have a nice little system.
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If my room ended behind my couch, therefore not allowing space for future second row, my rs3's would be RB-somethings. That's not what you asked though I'll give an opinion and be on my way...I would think rs52 would be really good in your setup. I can't really see you wanting to upgrade from them more than you questioning the $$ spents on the 62's.
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I have read tons of links and still don't quite understand how to calibrate a subwoofer. If I have an SPL meter (radio shack), what exactly am I doing and in what order? I understand subs are supposed to be calibrated @ 75db, but I don't even know how to get there. Run Onkyo test tone and adjust onboard level until meter reads 75db? Then, in some places it mentions setting mains first. I'm totally confused. I would just run Audyssey but my sub manufacturer advises AGAINST using it. I'm also running dual subs, and what I've seen mentions calibrating them together, not one at a time. I just need someone to spell it out in simple steps or terms. I don NOT have any burned test tones at this time, so I'm just using the test tones that the Onkyo has onboard.
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[Y]Just bought mine brand new in box for $165...but needed to spend $48 for 2 new tweeters from Klipsch. Apparently they were smoked from sitting in storage as long as they did. Nice surrounds!
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So your saying 1 sub is as good as 3?
Diminshing returns audibly, especially when you understand that db is not a linear measurement and the inherent inefficiency of the human ear.
Another way to look at it would be that you got an increase of 3db by adding one sub so now you have two. OK, now we add a third sub and it will only give you an increase of 1.5db over two subs.
If you already had 4 subs, one additional sub is going to give you an increase of only 0.75db!
Roger
I just sharted.[*-)]
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New tweeters came in from Klipsch and they did the trick!
). Do you want to build a sub or buy one? Does size matter? Do you have a budget? How loud do you normally listen? Are asthetics important? How big is the room and how many openings?
Crown PSA2 S O L D
in Garage Sale
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Shipping to 01027?