derrickdj1
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Posts posted by derrickdj1
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I like have a 9.1 setup and like listening in extended stero mode. My family room/open concept kitchen is large so I have surrond back towers and WDST speakers for surround. This setup covers the entire level with a full and balanced sound. It is also great for movie due to the various BD formats. I use front height speakers to add to the front stage in a vertical dimension since the ceilings are high. It all depends on the room size on the number of speakers needed to cover the area. I previously had a 5.1 and this setup is clearly better. My system is used 50/50 for music/TV and movies. HT is so personal that it all depends on what you feel you need and can afford. Over kill is common on this forum, lol.
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If you are new to HI fi audio and HT, I would suggest the HD 1000. You should be very happy with the HD 1000 sound and ability to play like a much larger system. I had my HD 500 in a large family room a thought it was great for HT and music. The room was 20X19 with over 9 ft. ceiling. Most of the people on this forum use large speakers, but there is a place for the satellite systems. The RB 81's are very large bookshelf speakers and most likely overkill. They will need a little room for proper setup. The HD setup looks very cool.
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The journey is where the fun is! I wonder out of boredom one day will a new journey be considered, lol. Glad to hear you are happy with you setup!
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These are two very different systems. The RB 81 system is the better system, but is the cost to performance benefit worth the extra money? I have an HD 500 system that I like as much as my tower system. It has great clarity, SQ and the sub is excellent for my second HT(smaller room). I like the small footprint of the satellite system.
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Room correction and setup are a key factor in setting up your HT. If you have a BB Magnolia near you, demo a Pioneer, Denon or higher Yamaha avr for a few day since you can return them and not loose any money. YPAO, AUDYSSEY, and MCACC all have there good points, but which one works best in your home? Also try moving your speakers further apart and increase the distance to the seatting area for better horn dispersion.
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Thanks for your input Quiet Hollow. One of my goal when I did this post was to try and generate a discussion on thing in an amp that will affect SQ. The new class D ice amp and the Class D3 amps are a whole different monster compared to conventional avr's and amps. I have seen recommendations on this forum for one amp or avr over another one and little sound discussion on why this one is better than that one, other than wattage, or vague terms such as neutral sound, warm sound or other descriptive terms. I have seen other topics on this forum discussed in great detail, such as, the recent discussion on power conditioners. I know this topic can become very technical and hard to follow. The easy way is to take forum recommendation, but I like to know why. This forum has taught me a lot over the past few months.
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Thanks for all the comments on a post that I thought no one would read. I do think that bandwidth stability, slew rate, impedance stability, dampening factor and the amp or avr's dynamic response do impact the SQ of a system. Slight variations in the spec's of one amp or avr compared to another, lead to a difference is the SQ of the units. I am not saying a night and day difference, but this may explain why some people claim that their system sounds better with a particular amp or avr. I also agree in a perfect world, that the amp or avr should not impact the SQ if all of the metrics in the opening post are well controlled. Most of the differences in SQ are more noticeable when listening to music with a broad frequency range. I also believe when selecting an amp or avr in trying them out for a few weeks in your system so that adequate listening time over a wide range of source is possible.
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My document formatting did not appear in the final post for this thread. I apologize that the document is harder to read. Any help will be appreciated.
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Factors in Choosing a Power amplifier or AVR
I enjoy my Klipsch speakers and this discussion forum. The nagging question that I have since joining the forum is what metrics determine proper system amplification for a particular system. Power amps and avr's choices are regularly discussed on this forum. What factors need to be considered when selecting an avr or power amp for HT or 2 channel setup? Is there a difference is sound quality at not only high levels, but also at lower levels? Being new to this forum, I thought this would be an interesting topic to share opinions and knowledge on the subject. For example, the warm sound attributed to tube amps: which is due to distortion in the 2nd harmonic's that so many enjoy. Most of the metrics that I have listed make no inferences on the amp or avr's wattage output. Which factors are most important in achieving good sound quality?
What are you looking for in a power amplifier or AVR for you HT system? Power amps or avr's need, high-current, high voltage, speed (slew rate) , and stability over the entire bandwidth, are some of the key features of a good power amplifier or avr. The slew rate, or the time required for an amp to go from 10% to 90% of it's total output voltage determines how fast the amp can change under various loads. The current delivered to charge the capacitor is also a key factor in the power amps performance. Under high current load an amp produces heat which must be dissipated to keep the unit from failing. If the output stage of the amp has a delay in charging and discharging the signal from the input stage, certain frequencies in the bandwidth will be out of phase. All of the above parameters are key to the amps/avr's performance. This is directly related to the sound quality, SQ. Certain qualities attributable to different types of amplifiers are a result of how well they are able to perform these functions.
To select a high speed, high voltage amplifier for a certain purpose, one has to look not only at the bandwidth and/or slew rate of the amplifier, but also at the expected capacitive load, the maximum sustainable output current and the possibility of overshoot voltages damaging the load. All of these are required for an optimal result. http://www.falco-systems.com/high_voltage_amplifiers.pdf.
Dampening Factor: this refers to how an amplifier has control over the loudspeaker cone. This control is needed for clarity and detailed sound reproduction of the source material. The quality of the speaker is also one of the most important factors at the final stage of sound reproduction. Signal to Noise ratio is also something to consider when selecting an amplifier. Make sure you are comparing apples to apples. Some S/N ratios are referenced at 1 watt and others are measured closer to peak wattage. The S/N ratio gives you an ideal of how quiet the amplifier is in operation. Klipschhorn owners can relate to this aspect of amplification. Channel separation is needed for sound imaging: and, once again the amps or avr's ability to perform these functions will be reflected in the sound quality for the listener. The number of amps in the HT system, number of transformer, rectifier and capacitors for each channel also influence the imaging properties of a HT system in conjunction with the speakers, room, crossover settings and other parameters. It is a bit like seduction, all things having to be working perfectly to achieve the ideal sound.
Impedance dips in amplifiers have a significant effect on speaker cone movement and frequency response.
An 8 ohm speaker can typically have an impedance dip to 4 ohms in the upper bass and rise to 20 ohms in the treble. Impedance dips can cause the spl in the tweeter and the woofer to be out of sync, or distortion.
Speaker cone movement becomes erratic. Loudspeakers must have a constant drive voltage to provide a constant acoustic output with changing impedance loads, and frequency fluctuations, http://www.Transcendent sound.com/Transcendent/Amplifier_Output_Impedance.html. Impedance dips causes uncontrolled voltage to the speaker if the amplifier is not up to the task. These dips can cause amplifier and speaker strain with a deterioration in SQ.
The selection of speakers and speaker properties will impact the SQ, but that is another discussion.
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I use my Pioneer SC 35 as a pre-amp and amp with my 9.1 setup. The avr is an excellent pre-amp and does not run hot. This was a more cost effective way for me to get into pre/pro. My Yamaha Natural Sound amps take ht and extended stereo listening to a new level.
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Congrats on the purchase of the Pioneer SC 35! The manual is a bit large and it takes a little time to go through it. But, the end result is well worth it. I find the SC recievers very well suited for music and HT. When I brought my SC 35 it was for 90% Ht and 10% music. Now I am 50/50. The MCACC is the key. forget about EQ under 63 Hz., the RF 63's bass output will be great and sound great.
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Be careful, once the upgrade bug bites, you will find yourself buying things on a faster time schedule, lol. Building your Klipsch system does that to you. Buy larger if you have the space so you won't need to go crazy over the next couple of years wanting the next step up in the upgrade chain.
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AVR's as a preamp works great: and the cost benefit ratio is a plus. Due to the technology changes over a period of 4 to 5 years, one might wish to upgrade a preamp. AVR's can be purchased cheaper and have all the new things that make it an attractive option. AVR's with pre-outs are generally higher quality models and do a great job as preamp. I use a Pioneer SC 35 as a preamp and find the quality to be excellent. This keeps the space requirements down and the avr complements HT use, and can dive the surround and surround back channels while amps drive the front stage. This type of setup is great for 2 or multi-channel music in addition to HT for movie use.
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The smaller VF 35 is also deeply discounted at Vann's. The horn design and the 3 woofers in the Icon V series makes them excellent for music IMO. Nice highs, and dynamic bass.
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I have also noticed some of the amp manufactures are making Class D amps. How do they compare to the traditional Class A/B amps as separates?
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If you have side room in your cabinet, the Pioneer may work. I have an SC 35 and it does not run hot. Demo one for a couple of weeks; find a dealer with a return policy of 30 days.
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The Reference series is designed to have a musical edge over the Icon's, but how will this play out in your home is the question. I have the Icon W series and thought about upgrading, but I find them very well suited for music and am very satisfied at this point. A lot depends on the room acoustic and room correction software that your are using. Upgrade if you feel you are missing something. I went to several AV custom shops and demo B&W, Paradigm and the Reference speakers after buying the Icon. Should of did that before, but the good is that I did not feel I was missing anything considering the cost/performance ratio. Buying your system is like buying a car, if you don't get what you want, you will always have that nagging feeling of what if. Good luck, you will be a winner either way. The most musical speakers that I heard were the Golden Ear. HT is not such a problem on speaker choice.
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The Icon W's pair with a nice compact sub should be great for music and HT. It's a toss up on which will be better,the Reference or the W's: the good part is you can't loose. The W's are elegant and will keep you a smaller footprint. They will give the highest WAF. In my hosuse, if she is happy I am happy!
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I use my Rocketfish Power Conditioner to cut on or off all my equipment similar to the surge protector ideal. All I have to do is cut the TV on and everything powers on. I have 2 vintage amps on my system that do not have a 12 volt trigger input. Getting up and turning on the amps would not be all bad, I could use the exercise. No, I am lazy!
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The Sony STR DH 510 does not have a mic for autocalibration on US models. I have one and do not like the setup. Get an avr that is at least 100-110 watts/per channel. I don't know about the STR DH 520. But, Sony does have some higher scale avr that are last years models( deep discounts) and they are pretty good. Most of the name brands such as, Pioneer, Yamaha, Onkyo, HK and Denon are all pretty good. Pick something with the additional features that you like.
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Any of the name brands like Yamaha, Denon, Pioneer, ect are good. Get something at least 100-110 watts per channel if you will use the avr for HT. A little more power in general is a good thing.
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I wonder why so many people want sub's that go below 20 Hz. Most musical instruments stop around 40 Hz with few exceptions, for example a pipe organ. For HT effect the best frequency of the clashes and bang is 25-40 Hz. Lower than 25 Hz you can feel more in your bones. To really get more from a sub, it is the amp rating that will really add more umph? Not taking into account ported vs sealed, ect. Pioneer Elite avr's will try to give everything a flat response, so if you do not feel you have enough bass after running the MCACC, crank up the subs gain somewhere between 50-75%. If anything, with my system I am trying to cut bass, lol.
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The only electrical problem I ever had was a storm that knocked out all the cordless phones. My home is fairly new and no major electrical problems. Thanks for the replies. The panamax conditioners that I have seen are expensive, $350 or more. No reason to spend more than you really have to. I was more concerned about equipment protection and did not think it would have a major impact on SQ for my gear. Last month I did buy a Rocket fish power conditioner for around $!00. The rocket fish did solve one problem I had which, was the need for a master switch to turn on and off everything with just the press of a button. Still it is somewhat of an expensive surge protector. This forum is very educational and is a big plus to being a Klipsch ower!
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This is a great discussion but due to the technical nature, it leave me with some confusion. For most of us newbies, are devices like Panamax useful? Can anyone recommend several devices to consider for use to protect our equipment. I may not be alone in the fact that most of my equipment is on one outlet due to the location of the gear. This may lead to additional electrical problems since the typical outlet is only 15 or 20 amp.
THX Ultra 2 vs THX Inwall
in Home Theater
Posted
What type of footprint are you more comfortable with? I have a friend with a HT setup with in-wall and in-ceiling speakers coupled with front towers and 2 sub and it sounds great. Both will perform well and give you that WOW factor.