chuckears
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Posts posted by chuckears
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What glue are you using to secure the caps to the board?
Also, what gauge wire are you using to attach to the “top” end of the caps to extend the leads to the board?
I’ve got soldering tools from previous projects, but am short glue and wiring.
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Carver is a popular brand with enthusiasts, and I ran my Fortes for years with the 120wpc version - when I swapped it out for the 185-wpc McCormack DNA-1 Deluxe, it was as though I was hearing them for the first time. I had a live soundstage and tremendous bass, the likes of which I did not know the Fortes were capable.
One important note, however: the 2-channel pre-amp I was running my sources through - same brand as my amp - had a lot to do with the clarity and realism; I haven’t heard quite that level of detail since I began using a HT processor as a pre-amp - close, but not quite. -
12 hours ago, rebuy said:
Not on my system, it sounds Marvelous. 😃
Same with mine… Chorus IIs powered by plenty of dynamic headroom make the larger instruments sound incredible :-).
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The brand new pair of original-series Fortes I unboxed myself back in 1988 had a midrange blown - I could tell from vocals, mainly female, which provided a bit of a static rattle, if my acoustic memory serves.
I loaded it up and took it back to the showroom, where they swapped out the mid horn with one in a model they knew worked just fine.It's still running sweet, some 34 years later.
Hopefully, you can be back up and running with it soon... -
22 hours ago, PennQuinn said:
Adding to this thread as I just (mid-Dec. 2022) got a new pair of Hersey IV's (not Forte I know, but similar) and am pairing them with my Yamaha A-S1200 amp, CD-S1000 SACD player, 15" Definitive Technologies sub-woof and SMSL SU-9 DAC.
I'm a few days in now and overall I'm happy with the speakers. Obviously they look great, I've already received a ton of "wow those look fantastic" type comments from friends. However, I'd be lying if I said I'm blown away by the sound, don't get me wrong, the sound is fantastic but you're clearly paying for much more than just the audio here. I've been tweaking the placement and toe-ing and generally think I've got them optionally positioned my my space. I came from a much less expensive pair of JBL Studio 570's and honestly (with the sub on for both) there isn't a huge difference in overall sound. The imaging and dynamics are a bit better with the Klipsch, possibly less fatiguing on the highs and more low end push. I rarely need to go past 9 o’clock (6:30 being silent) on the Yamaha. It gets loud very quickly! There is something super pleasing about watching those VU meters bounce and hearing the Hersey's rock the house. Additionally the fit and finish blows the doors off the cheaper JBLs (they probably should for 5x the price!) but I can't say enough about the build quality, it absolutely feels like a speaker that I'll hand down to my kids someday. FWIW the same holds true for the Yamaha amp, it's amazing.
Just a hunch but I'd guess a pair of Polk R700's or JBL 590's would deliver a similar (or maybe better) sonic experience but they can't match up in the other aspects.. build, fit finish, aesthetics, and sheer cool factor (love the grills). So yeah.. the Klipsch + Yamaha A-S1200 are a good match.
"Heresy" - so named because many Klipsch originalists might consider it heresy for the company to have a speaker that was not fully horn-loaded, and need corner placement to shine. I'm unaware of "Hersey" being a word at all...
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You will be happy with either speaker; I've owned Forte (series one) for over three decades, and nothing new under 5X their price sounds better to my ears. They are the most balanced, neutral, and accurate speaker for a medium-sized room you will find.
I recently acquired a pair of Chorus IIs, and have been getting acquainted with them; I can say that they have the Klipsch "sound" inherent in speakers from that era - soundstage is large, the bass is "felt", and some of the larger instruments sound more live than with the Fortes. They do have a "sound" - a warmth in the midrange - that makes them not as neutral and accurate as the Fortes.
I have moved my old speakers to "Front Wide" duty, not being able to part with them... it's nice to know that they are available if I ever decide I prefer them over the Chorus.-
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10 hours ago, Deang said:
-2 with 50 mph gusts here in Dayton. Most things are closed with widespread power outages. No mail today and probably won’t get anything tomorrow either. I actually don’t expect anything to show up from USPS until Tuesday, since Monday is a Federal holiday.
I wondered about how the dual-whammy of weather and the holiday rush might affect your receiving that kit before the weekend... no rush, I've got other projects for next week, including a 15-minute plumbing task that will probably take me 2 hours :-O. -
6 minutes ago, tigerwoodKhorns said:
And be prepared to spend a lot of time to get things done nicely. The first time you do a job, it takes a while to learn what needs to be done (layout, parts, etc.) so be ready to spend some time to get a professional looking result.
Here was my solution to big caps in the Chorus IIs: Just before I installed the final caps. Or ordered for several speakers and was short a few caps so I was waiting to check capacitance and match pairs.
Where do you end up placing this board in the cabinets? Surely it isn't going to fit back onto the terminal cup...
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1 hour ago, Jhakobe said:
After several trial fittings, this is what I ended up with due to the cap sizes being massively(!) larger than the original NPEs. The cap lead extension wire is solid 18ga copper connected with the j-hook method. Caps are held with small piece of double-sided tape (good to 250f) between the caps and a zip tie. Weight is supported by the inner-most cap and the soldered leads themselves. Thoughts on this before I tear into the other speaker?
Golly - these caps are a lot larger than the ones I'm using to replace the existing ones on my Chorus's - not the JEM kit, I'm assuming. -
7 minutes ago, Deang said:
That mindset is what someone else used and it ultimately resulted in a lot of confusion, which still persists. So, I don’t agree.
The specifications and resultant behavior of the parts are used in the voicing process. If that causes a slightly tipped down response, then it is by design, and the prerogative of the manufacturer.
As for tube amps, many prefer a minimalist approach to audio and don’t want or use equalizers and tone controls. Many don’t even use preamps.
I'm on board for resisting tone controls, especially the too-broad "bass" and "treble" - they are overused or misused to solve problems either with the speakers, or the room. My system has never sounded as good for music-listening as it did when I had a passive preamp made by the same company I prefer for amplifiers (now defunct, and folded into Conrad-Johnson) - McCormack.
HOWEVER, since I expanded my entire system to include home theater - I don't have the space to have more than one system - I have used first a notch filter for my subs to tame the room resonances, then more recently used the room response kit and integrated ARC Genesis system that came with my Anthem processor. This applies corrections for room responses after running sweeps of all the channels, and has brought greater clarity to music and video content.
There are still some recordings that sound better to me 2-channel only - and I can toggle the room-corrections to hear which I like better. -
10 hours ago, Deang said:
@chuckears I believe if the capacitors are having issues, ANY new set of capacitors will net a noticeable change. So, why not use parts that put them to factory spec first to see where you’re really at. It sure leaves a lot of money left over for other things.
...this is precisely how I am proceeding with the new-to-me Chorus II's.
Looking back at the "mods" on my Fortes, that seemed the simplest solution to me at the time, and the Crites boards had great praise among those who had gone that route. Originalists would likely ding me for switching out the red and black plastic binding posts with Cardas, but they certainly did no harm. I'm hanging on to the Fortes indefinitely, and have no regrets with the changes I made to them over a decade ago - they still sound better than any other new speakers that cost 4X more.
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56 minutes ago, richieb said:
— I remember when a statement of “upgrading” a Klipsch speaker was becoming verboten to be replaced with the “modifying” of a Klipsch speaker. That seemed the more palatable reference - And either way could no longer be known as Klipsch -
I have to admit to two mods on my Fortes, one of which to my ears was an improvement, the other of which I can't make any claims. The first was swapping out the factory crossovers - which were nearly 30 years old at that time - with Crites with Sonicaps. To my ears, they became a little clearer, as though a thin veil had been lifted between the speakers and my ears. I had been listening to them almost daily for those 28-plus years, and am confident in what I heard - I'm guessing that the old caps were beginning to degrade out-of-spec, and perhaps there is something to be said for "better" capacitors. (I've thought for some time that the company could improve upon their crossover networks and internal wiring, although I'm told that such topics are frowned upon here in the "community"). The other mod was replacing the tweeter diaphragms with titaniums, and I had difficulty discerning appreciable change - perhaps because of the persistent high-tone tinnitus I've suffered from for years.
I've opted to go for the JEM-produced authorized replacement caps for the Chorus II's I recently acquired, and am awaiting what the old pro has to share here about his solution to the problem posed by the OP. -
Just received my caps from JEM today as well... also Chorus II's.
Will wait a few days to see how this turns out for everyone... I haven't determined placement of these yet, given the different size and wire orientation than the stock caps. Hopefully, it won't end up something I regret tackling myself - all due respect the Crites guy (that's how I went with my Fortes), the $68 cost of these compared to the $500-plus for the Crites drop-ins is a lot more appealing, especially given the outlay of $1200 for the speakers that came as a surprise to the S/O :-O.-
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...or, is it just for cosmetic/aesthetic reasons?
I've oiled my oak Fortes for years - sometimes waiting a couple of years between applications. After picking up these oiled walnut beauties recently, I was left to wonder if it is truly necessary for the life of the veneer to apply oil (I'm aware of the recommendations of which oils to use) - because I actually like the slightly dull look these have. It seems to suit them, to my eyes.
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Picked up some Oiled Walnut Chorus IIs last week to replace my series-1 Fortes as the mains in the front soundstage of my modest living room HT - which doubles as my 2-channel music listening system.
I slid the Fortes to the side to put the Chorus's in place - heavy suckers - and happened to think "Hmmm... front wides maybe?" I had not yet decided what exactly to do with the Fortes... I've grown pretty attached to them, having bought them new in 1988.
Acquired some wire and plugs, and pulled out a spare 2-channel amp that matches my existing units - ran ARC this morning, and auditioned a few Atmos sources, and Wow. The soundstage is huge, gaps are filled in, and I will now be going back through a lot of titles and enjoying the expanded experience. The funny thing is that an internet search reveals a lot of "Meh" opinions about the role of the Front Wides, and a lot of people claiming it's hit-and-miss, not utilized by a lot of sound engineers, and is a flop. With every source I've played so far, I've noticed the difference.
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My new-to-me Chorus IIs came with scotch tape applied at wild angles over the edges of this manufacturer info sticker, which my sensibility required me to remove - is there any mess-less way to secure this, or should I just rip the whole thing off? (My series-I Fortes still have theirs intact).
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I also just recently acquired a pair of Chorus II's... I've had original series Fortes for years, and was glad to find the Academy center after the RC-3 and KLF-C7 turned out to be complete mis-matches.
I was concerned about the blend with the Chorus' - since their mid-horn is Tractrix instead of exponential - but it was unfounded... the blend is just as perfect as with the Forte.
I LOVED the sound from the C7, BTW - very clear and distinct - but the driver/timbre difference between it and the Forte was very obvious, with material that pans, or is shared by the mains and center, sounding way off and unnatural. I've wondered for some time if it would mate better with the Chorus II's, since their manufacture date and horn-styles are closer, but I don't have a reason with my current results to change anything soon.
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I've owned a pair of original series Fortes since 1988, and a listening excursion a year ago confirmed for me that I had something incredible... nothing I heard that cost under 4K could come close to the accurate, live sound of my (modded with Crites crossovers and Ti tweeter diaphragm) Fortes.
I had been looking for a pair of (used, of course) Chorus IIs to replace them, and finally found a pair locally and put them into my system a couple of days ago. I've not had time to dial them in as thoroughly as I will eventually, but have some observations:
Yes, they're BIG. I can move the Fortes around myself, but needed help with the Ch-2s.The soundstage is huge - with a little more detail and separation of instruments. I "feel" the lower end a little more than with the Fortes. Some instruments - notably piano and brass - sound more live with the Chorus.
I was struck, however, by the "warm" sound from them - it detracts from making the performances seem live, in that the speakers themselves have a definite "sound" - the Forte just seems cleaner and clearer, with a flatter response. I've run ARC room adjustments, which helped a little, but I still find vocals to sound a bit warmer and less accurate than with the Forte.
I'm not getting rid of the Fortes just yet - I definitely like the sound from the Chorus, and plan to dive into a little more placement tweaks, and adjusted measurements with ARC - but I would hate to decide in a few weeks that I prefer the Forte, and wish for their return. I also haven't ruled out a crossover change, but am not ready to do any mods until I'm comfortable with them.
(I was a little concerned, prior to listening, that the Chorus's would not blend well with my Academy center channel, but that concern was for naught - the sound is as seamless, and perhaps even better than, it is with the Forte; possibly because the Academy and Chorus were manufactured closer together in the timeline).
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Mine are wall-mounted, with no space or opportunity to floor-stand and angle them, particularly on the side that is part of the entryway into a rear dining area. RS7's would have been my choice back when I added surrounds, but my space limitations did not allow speakers that large in the space I have for them.
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2 hours ago, billybob said:
What are your main complaints now if any or, just wanting to add a bit more to HT?
Thanks @chuckears
I'm just wondering if I'm missing out on the more localized content offered up by the Atmos spec, and also impressed by the broader frequency range specs of the in-wall 5800's vs. the RS3. There is also the matter of WAF - she's is very understanding about most of the setup, but seemed impressed by the unobtrusive aspect of the in-ceilings I just installed.
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1 hour ago, The History Kid said:
That is not an RS-3. RS-3's have a single woofer and two tweeters. Is this what you meant?
The RS-3's will have better sound dispersion than in-ceiling or in-wall speakers. I would suggest moving the RS-3's to ear level and see if you enjoy the experience before doing anything more with in-wall or in-ceiling.
You are correct - I switched the driver configuration in my description
Moving the RS3's down would make for an awkward placement on at least one of the walls, which is part of an opening into another room behind the listening area, and is by an outside door. The WAF would make it a non-starter, the acceptance factor being part of why I am looking at the in-walls to begin with.
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I've had Klipsch RS3 for surrounds for years; they have the trapezoid shape, with the tweeter in the middle and the two woofers angled toward the front and the rear of the MLP. I have them placed as recommended back in the day, above and slighty behind the listening position.
I recently installed CDT-5800 in-ceiling speakers for Atmos - the new standard in this configuration is to have the side/surrounds more at ear level. This has led me to wonder if the in-wall version of my in-ceiling speakers, placed near ear-level - would be a better choice than the older-style RS3.-
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The peak of the ceiling runs from the MLP to the front soundstage, so height speakers are going to be toed in at an angle. Will be installing CDT-5800's, which feature separately aim-able woofer and tweeter; my inclination is to point them toward the MLP, but Dolby recommends them pointing straight down assuming the ceiling is flat.
Obviously, I can play with the positioning once they're installed, but just curious about opinions, both practical and theoretical...
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Chorus II JEM Capacitor Kit Installation
in Technical/Restorations
Posted
Actually, the original two caps to which you refer were upright - being radial as opposed to the axial-type that seem to be more ubiquitous currently. The biggest challenge with this replacement kit - once you get past removal of the board, and assuming some skill with soldering - was that those two replacement caps have to be altered from their horizontal placement to vertical, and soldering on an extra length of wire to run the lead from the now-top end of the cap down through its hole in the PCB, and getting the caps to sit upright.