NOSValves

Mobile First off you have to tell me how the Heck you formated your sigature to such small print ?? I've been racking my brain trying to figure it out. So I can do the same PLEASE !!!!! Take it easy I don't think that's what they have planed for the HF-81 at least I don't think so. Hold onto you hat now cause your going to hate this "smug" comment. I was going to do just that until I looked the unit it over and decided it just wasn't of high enough quality and looks to warrant such a restore job. I'm not trying to attack you its just how I percieve the amp. Please don't take this the wrong way. Craig This message has been edited by NOS440 on 03-27-2002 at 02:35 PM

HornEd I would like a copy to if you could ! Thanks in advance Craig nos440@comcast.net

Clipped and Shorn Check you inbox and I also sent this to Mdeneen. Its the complete Sams Photo facts for the HF-81. Mdeneen also has the EICO schematic at his house take a few floppy's with you. Craig This message has been edited by NOS440 on 03-27-2002 at 02:07 PM

maxg I'm running my KSW-15 with my Heresy's because its what I had available to use. I took it from my HT setup. I'm very happy with its transition. I had a few people over and comment on the good smooth base and mid range was from such a small set of speakers they didn't even realise there was a sub (its tucked away under my work bench and not easily noticed). For the $400 I spent on it I'm very happy ! I was very happy with it in my HT setup also but it was a little large for the room and even in the larger workshop/basement that its in I'm only at 40% output. I think I'm going to pickup a KSW-12 for my HT setup and call the workshop home for my 15. Its funny you asked that. I was just thinking last night while I was working on the HF-81 and listening to CD's that I just love the sound of my 299, Heresy's and KSW-15 that I really don't need any upgrades at this time I'm satisfied. Its been I while since I said that to myself The sound is just amazing at low volume , high volume it doesn't matter it just sounds full and detailed to say it in one word RIGHT ! Now let me say that I'm sure that there are much better Subs to be had out there but I haven't reached the fanatical point where money is no issue. If I was going to spend $2000 on a sub I'd just buy some higher grade Klipsch Heritage speakers like cornwall's or Lascala's. Subs can be pretty expensive and with most speakers not necessary. In my HT room with my SF-2 and my 222C Amp I really don't miss the sub at all for music but these speakers reach down to 35 that's allot compared to 50 of the Heresy's. Craig

Mobile I have a few question's for you on this bias front and the HF-81. 1) Do you pay extra for matched sets of tubes for your Hf-81 or any other amp you own ? 2)Have you ever tested them in circuit to see what there doing and if so did all the voltages and reading match tube to tube ? 3)Would you rather not bother with matched tubes ? I'm not saying that the amps w/wo bias adjustment are going to be head over heals better than the other sound wise. I'm saying it just makes life easier and cheaper. I still say that there is no such thing as a matched set of tubes. The dealer would have to burn them in for weeks before they would settle to there permanent state. I have checked my 222C a number of times over the last few months and it needed mild adjustment everytime out of a brand new set a JJ 6BQ5's its finally to the point where there stable and these were suppose to be a matched quad with the test results written on the box. Like I said before you may have better luck getting matched sets then some unknown Joe getting tubes from these dealers. They know who you are and know if they rub you wrong they will lose more than your business but a ton of people you know. Do you see what I'm getting at ?? Craig This message has been edited by NOS440 on 03-27-2002 at 03:22 AM

Mdeneen said quote: Lotsa posts here about matched tubes again. I hate to even post about this again, but regardless of what Joe Guru does to "match" tubes on a tube tester - no matter what kind - no matter how exotic - no matter how well tuned - no matter what they charge -this doesn't in any way mean the tubes will draw "matched current" when installed in these overly-simplified PP vintage amps. All you have to do is measure it in-circuit to see this. Amen to that been there and done that !!!!! In fact just did it on the EICO and found it was off tube to tube in spite of using a so called matched set of tubes LOL !!! This is why I say (learned from Mdeneen) and now on my third amp that bias adjust means everything to fine tuning your output tubes. Craig the bias junky This message has been edited by NOS440 on 03-28-2002 at 01:38 PM

Mike I'm not sure I sent a email off to Mdeneen to see what he thinks would be the best replacement option. He was out of town all day and said he would look at it tomorrow. Its no big hurry. I've been rerouting the rats nest for the last 3 hours and it looks like I've got at least 5 or 6 hours more rerouting to go. I polished up the chassis it turned out pretty good considering the sorry cruddy shape it was in. I'll post some pictures and soon as I get all the wiring to my liking. Craig Didn't see Mdeneen reply this thread went to 2 pages onmy PC. This message has been edited by NOS440 on 03-27-2002 at 09:23 AM

Clipped and Shorn That was well written,thought out very good read. But anyway's I have a good copy of the Sams Photo Facts w/schematic and EICO Schematic. I'll scan you up copies tomorrow. What email would you like it sent too ? Craig

matthew2 Doesn't matter if you have a 15" sub it is still recieving its bass signal from the Tube Amp. Trust me Tubes produce plenty of bass. In fact I have my Subs output set at about 40% of its total potential. Another cool thing is you can modify the tube amp to the kind of bass you want or your speakers need. Mdeneen designed a mod to my 222C just to optimise it for my Sf-2s with a Sub. Craig

Mobile You are one touchy dude !!!! You really have to quit taking comments so personal. I haven't really done that much reading in the EICO yet. I have made no final judgments on it. I'm sorry you take these things so personal. I just find after looking at the unit that they designed it at a price point and a very low one at that. When I read of the mods that Roger did it tells me that he did them because he was not satisfied with the performance of the unit just like I wasn't satisfied with my 222C until I added some mods. No big deal. I've also read somewhere not sure where that others have found that it is a noisy design. Tends to have hum and a noisy phono section. Maybe I'm wrong hell I don't know yet. Mines a basket case that I'm currently giving it a bigtime restore. Wait I think it was the reviews you linked to the other day not sure though. I'm sorry that you feel your stuck with me and the 81. I guess that's the price you pay for talking the Amp up so much sooner or later you were going to run into someone that would critic it ! Trust me in the end if its a good Amp I'll be your biggest fan !! I give credit where credit is due and if I have to eat dirt and admit I'm wrong I will do it !! Craig This message has been edited by NOS440 on 03-26-2002 at 11:30 PM

Those would be a nice buy but will most likely end up near $200 and without know what the values are I or anyone else is taking a long shot at whether there worth anything to a Tube audio hobbyist. You could end up with a bunch a useless junk. Nice link though !! Craig

Well my experience and knowledge of what Scott has made will make this a long reply. First off mobile is right I love my 222C. But it really didn't shine until I installed a proper bias adjust circuit. Mobile disagrees on this but I think its essential for a good working amp. The 222C has only tube Bias balance adjust and no way to adjust the actual Bias voltage. The 222D has all the Bais adjustment pots built in so there's one less mod it would need to be perfect. The LK-48 suffers from the same lack of bias adjust and was a kit so wired by a home hobby person most likely but you could order them wired. Now the LK-72B is a interesting find I would love to have one that was wired descent this is a kit too !! This is the Kit version of the 299D and it uses 7591 output tubes. Which are expensive and somewhat harder to find than 7189/6BQ5's that the other Amps use (solvtek I think makes new ones now) . Any of the Amps that this guy has would play well on any speakers above 90db rating and of coarse really sing with any of the Heritage vintage klipsch. I have my 222C hooked to almost the cheapest currently available Towers SF-2s and they sing some beautiful music for the money invested. Again let me tell you if this guy is reasonably priced on these I would be interested in whatever you don't get and especially the LK-72B (just because I don't have one based on the 7591 tube). Now my recommendation to you is ..... Well it depends I have a few questions. Who is this guy ? Does he restore these or what ?? Is he offering you a guarantee ?? If he just has them laying around and he play around with them as a hobby like myself and just say's they check out okay then I would only think about the 222D because its factory wired and would tend to have less demons. Craig here's a sight with tons of Scott Info Linkage This message has been edited by NOS440 on 03-26-2002 at 09:33 PM

Soundjunkie At this time I can't (no pun intended) LOL !! I just scored a scope the other day and a function generator is next on my list. Besides the hum I'm talking about isn't coming out of the speakers (although there is allot of hum/hisses coming out of them). What I;m saying is the Can is buzzing and vibrating by itself without any input or speakers hooked to the amp. Mobile Thanks for the paint tipp.I had read it somehwhere on the forum but forgot who and what duh !! Craig the massive cleaning fool !! I'm even polishing the chassis somewhat !! This message has been edited by NOS440 on 03-26-2002 at 09:52 PM

Mobile I hate to be smug but for such a great amp Roger Stevens sure did allot of modding to try to get rid of all the problems he had with Hum and vibration. What's up with that ?? Craig

Mobile That's some nice equipment. His TV7 looks to be in as good a shape as my EICO 667. I would swear someone put mine in a time capsule and locked it up for 40 years. It also seems to work perfect. Personally I think a tube tester is real handy and doesn't really require being totally acurate on the actual numbers. Its still going to test each tube the same and let you compare for balance purposes when getting new tubes. I also think its important to leave the tube in there for 5 to 10 minutes and let it get real warm to get a accurate hot reading. I have no data to back this up it just makes sense to me. Craig This message has been edited by NOS440 on 03-26-2002 at 06:45 PM

Actually the amp runs cool. I've shut it down until I can find a replacement. I'm not sure if its leaking or getting ready to take off like a rocket. I know one thing for sure it can't be good and is mostly why the amp sounds so harsh. I'm now cleaning the crud off it and making it presentable. I have to pickup some semi gloss black for it. What do you use ? Craig This message has been edited by NOS440 on 03-26-2002 at 06:31 PM

Mobile It is definitly coming right from the Can Cap its wild ! It also seems to get louder and louder as you let it run. I'm not sure why but its doing it. All the voltages are in line on every tube throughout the amp. So I think its the first culprit and replace the wiring is a must. My scott's make a faint noise like this coming from there rectifier tubes but this is 3 times as loud as that. You can feel the vibration on the can. HH Scott out This message has been edited by NOS440 on 03-26-2002 at 05:11 PM

Mike That's a great link. I think I can come up with a new unit that will do the job but having it rebuilt or rebuilding myself is a good option. This message has been edited by NOS440 on 03-26-2002 at 04:52 PM

jazman/Mike I can almost bet its at least a big part of it. The Cap itself buzzes like its a alarm clock LOL !!! The amp also has lots of hum and hiss so I bet that's where the problem is. It goes to show you that you can't alway's trust test instruments because they all say its a good Cap (at least not open or shorted). HH Scott out (how you like that jazzman LOL !!!!!)

Mobile I agree with you completely. Its not neccesary at all to have a scope and function generator. All that is really needed for keeping your stuff at least operating in a "safe for the equipment manor" is a multi meter and cheap Iron and of coarse some clue as to what your doing. What Mark means when he suggest a scope and sound generator is if you want your Amp to be really perfect this is required. To me this is pretty obviously the truth because just about every service manual I have read has instructions that include a scope and sound generator as required eqiupment to service the product. Craig This message has been edited by NOS440 on 03-26-2002 at 06:44 PM

Mike In my Opinion if the newbie doesn't have the Ability/Equipment to check a vintage unit out or they are not willing to pay someone a few hundred to bring it up to good operating condition. Then I for one hope they do get scared away from vintage rather then see them operate a amp out of spec and in danger of destroying it to the point of beyond repair. There is no reason for anyone to expect a electronic peice of equipment after 40+ years not to need some attention. If they do there just fooling themselves. Its simple people that are not willing to give the equipment proper respect should either by New tube gear, Professionally restored vintage or Solid State. Craig Oh and out of respect for the originator of this thread I started one just to post my progress as I go. This message has been edited by NOS440 on 03-26-2002 at 03:59 PM

edster00 What Scott does he have ?? What's the shape and price. Let me know if your not interested I may be. Are these from a private seller you know or something on the Ebay.

Okay been tracing the Voltage readings and just basically looking everything over before I start the rewire job and think I found one of the major culprits. While having the amp on and testing I noticed I was getting a heavy vibration from something in the amp very audible. I traced it to the Multi section Can Cap. It tests fine and voltgaes are just fine going into it but its making some god awefull noise. Anyone no a good place to score one of these ? The value is 20 mfd @400V dual 40/40 mfd @ 350. Mobile !! who has these little jewels. Craig

mike stehr Now exactly how do you figure that this thread is going to keep anyone from getting into tubes ?? Do you think that rants back and forth don't happen in the SS arena please !! This is the kind of thread that peaks peoples interest in what all the fuss is about !!! Craig This message has been edited by NOS440 on 03-26-2002 at 10:12 AM

JMON I have 3 different solid state setups and 2 tube setups at my house. My daughter and all her friends ages 13 to 17 are all rapp lovers and you no where they like to hang out if I'm not in there. My little work/shop music room with my Scott 299 amp, Heresy's and KSW-15 sub to listen to the bass pounding music. So again tubes do the job. They all say its so "tight" as they talk these day's. Craig