ivanhurd
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Posts posted by ivanhurd
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^^^good to know.
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I would say concert DVDs are mixed a bit differently, but I could be wrong...That's a good question.
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You could probably do it yourself as long as you are careful.
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The thing definitely isn't all that pretty, but I like how it sounds. I'm sure you will enjoy yours =^)
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From the Audyssey FAQ on AVS:
c)5. What is the LPF of LFE and what should it be set to?
First of all, Audyssey doesnt touch this setting. Neither is it a Crossover, although you will often see it described as such. It stands for Low Pass Filter of the Low Frequency Effects Channel. The Low Frequency Effects (LFE) channel is the .1 in a 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 audio track and it carries special content put there by the content mixer. The Low Pass Filter is the filter that is applied to that content. The content is authored up to 120Hz so the only setting that is correct for this is 120Hz. If you set it to anything below 120Hz then any content between 120Hz and whatever you set it to is lost. It is not redirected anywhere it is simply discarded. This filter has nothing to do with any speaker Crossovers etc and it is not set by Audyssey. The only reason it is in the FAQ is that people often think that Audyssey has set it and they confuse it with their speaker Crossovers. Just set it at 120Hz and leave it there.
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^^^But besides it being loud, are emotiva amps a good match for klipsch? I've still be looking at Marantz as I've heard they are a good match sound wise with klipsch speakers...
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I heard that deep driving bass helps the healing process. Could be hearsay tho =^PI received the new sub just a few minutes ago. IT IS HUGE! I will unbox it later this afternoon and take a few pictures. Stay tuned for my initial impressions. Unfortunately it will be a day or two until I get a chance to put it through its paces. My wife is having surgery today so she will need a day to recuperate.
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^^^pretty much what we have all been saying =^)
It took me 3 hours! Ok, maybe not =^P MS paint ftw.I love your drawing!
This sounds about right.That was one of the things throwing me off, I had no idea what the LFE channel did.
If the LFE channel has the info it shouldn't matter what you set the other speaker crossovers at, the sub would get whatever is on the recording. It's then up to you to decide what your other speakers can handle and sound best at.
Do I understand that right ?
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Ha, so I was mostly right =^P I guess I was correct the first time in saying it's possible to lose some of the LFE info.The LFE channel is a production channel used by movie makers and the likes for the very low frequencies. The subwoofer is a playback channel used at home for reproducing the LF's. The LFE channel in the avr should be set no lower than 120 since the movie makers put the LF's, 120Hz or less into that dedicated channel. Setting it lower, will cause a loss of some LF information/signal. Setting the sub x-o all the way up allows for bass management via the avr. With a x-o of 60 or 80 mean that the speakers don't have to produce LF below that point. Setting all speakers to small in the avr allows for good bass management. X-0 settings in the avr greater than 100, can become directional and the subwoofer can be localized. Any speaker that is set to Large will also playback the .1 or .2 LFE. I have my sub x-o all the way up, the speaker x-o at 80 and all speaker set to small. The sub cannot be localized the bass respone is better than having some speakers set to large and the overall bass volume is higher. I find this works well with speaker woofers 8in. or smaller.
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That's kinda odd...I wonder why they set it up like that...Most AVRs (that I've read about) have 10hz steps...
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Let us know if you stumble upon anything =^) And Youthman, I hope I didn't offend you at all. I was not saying that your setup was 'wrong' by any means. Just from what I have read it's possible that you may be missing out on some of what your subs can do. If you've already tried it the other way and didn't find it to your liking then that's just how it is, because in the end all that matters is how it sounds to you =^)
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The settings I have now seem to work well for me in both areas so I haven't messed with it that much. Music is going to be a different beast because there isn't that dedicated LFE channel, so the crossover points aren't necessarily going to be the same as with HT. Again, it's really going to come down to your preference but from what I've read when it comes to music, setting the crossover lower on the sub will probably be better for most. I would probably start with 60 on mains, 80 for sub and go from there. I just don't listen to music much on my HT, so I really haven't experimented with the settings in those regards...but when I do listen to music, I set my AVR to stereo.So how do you have it setup for MUSIC?.
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The sub will still play everything from 80-120 and the mains will still play down to 80hz. It should look something like the pic below. As you can see in the sweet diagram (=^P) the amount of shared frequencies is quite low. The mains will roll off into the sub and vice versa. This is where you get the 'blend'. The hard part is finding the sweet spot that sounds the best to you in your room, but according to THX, this point should be it or at least the best starting point.Ivan, even in that case, you still would not be "overlap". With the receiver or pre/pro set at 80Hz and the sub at 120Hz, the sub is still ONLY going to play 80Hz and below due to the receiver or pre/pro sending only 80Hz and below to the sub. Not sure if or how that applies to LFE in a movie though. If the xover on the receiver is at 80Hz and the sub is at 120Hz and the LFE channel wants to send a 100Hz frequency to the sub, does the receiver route the >80Hz to the mains or does the sub end up playing the 100Hz frequency because it is in the LFE channel? My head hurts....I'm headed to bed and will catch up with this thread tomorrow. Haha
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It could have been because you still had your mains set to full (?), so there was just too much overlap going on such as the guy suggested in the articles you posted previously. I dunno tho, different strokes as they say =^) I do like how mine is set up and I think it blends together nicely. To anybody out there, It's worth a shot as you can always go back to how it was set up previously =^)There may be some that like that sound. To my ears, it just sounded too boomy
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It just depends on what you like I suppose. Basically, the sub is designed to handle all of those low notes. I agree that some of the bigger mains can handle the low notes, but not in the same way that a designated sub does. In an *HT* setup, the sub is 'supposed' to handle the LFE, not the mains. Some people don't like this idea because they are thinking, "why the heck do I have RF-7IIs with big ol speakers in them if I don't utilize them???" Those are for 2 channel music =^)Setting like that you probably will get more rumble and power but I would GUESS it is what you should be avoiding,
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I completely agree. Just for an FYI, THX recommends everything at 80hz and sub at 120hz.You are supposed to have an overlap, but not to the point where either go any further into the other than necessary.
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I can see where you are coming from, and I don't disagree. Again, it comes down to preference, and it appears that you have found yours. It just gives people more things to try out and see if they like how it sounds. I personally really can't tell much of a difference when I have my main speakers on full or 60 or 80 for that matter...My critical listening is a bit out of practice...YES your not alone, and thanks everyone.
Count me in too. I learn something new everyday.
I just did some Googling...
Check out these two articles:
Basic Subwoofer Setup Guide NOT for Dummies
Setting hte Subwoofer / LFE Crossover For Best Performance
Granted, this is only one source and one person's opinion, but his advice is what I've ever read.
Here are some points he makes that I agree with...
We highly recommend experimenting with the variable Bass Management / Crossover settings in your receiver / processor
to arrive at the best setting possible for the marriage between your
loudspeakers and subwoofer, especially if you are using quality "large"
tower type speakers with inherently good bass extension. You will find
the addition of a sub is much more useful as a compliment to your main
speakers, producing deep, non-directional bass tones.
Keep in mind that setting the LFE too high can allow your sub to
play up to almost 100Hz, which can cause a bass bump between your main
speakers and sub; increasing the chances of:
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Unwanted and unnatural sounding standing bass waves.
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Identification of the subwoofer as a point source rather than a discrete member.
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Excessive bass boom.
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The point of crossovers is to find the point where your speakers blend together the best. If you set everything to 120hz, then you will actually miss out on some frequencies because crossovers aren't perfect and you will get something like the pic below. If you put them all to full range, your AVR is just going to send everything to every speaker so they will end up getting frequencies they may not be designed to handle causing clipping and just being less efficient.With your logic, why not set all your speakers to 120Hz or even to FULL range since you will hear more from them that way?
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I could be getting all backwards here...you are correct in saying that the mains will still play down to 60, so basically the bass should be 'doubling up' from 120 hz(where your sub starts) down to 60hz(where your mains end) and then the sub will take everything below that. So I believe I could have been incorrect before in saying that you could be missing some of the sounds if your sub's crossover is too low, you just aren't going to get the power and bigger rumble in the range that isn't going to your sub. So in Youthman's case, he is missing out on the power his sub could be putting out between 50-120hz probably missing out on a more dynamic sound from them. If your mains have their own big subs, you probably aren't going to be missing out on as much, but for my RF-82 IIs, they may go down to 33hz, but also aren't going to rumble at 80hz like a sub will. I hope I'm making sense, and I may be contradicting myself a bit, but I'm just trying to recall what I had read. There was a big discussion about this on the AVS forum, but I don't remember which thread and I think there were some different view points which is probably why I may be giving contradicting information. It's possible it was in the Audyssey thread where people were discussing where to adjust crossover points after running the program.
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A. If you are utilizing the LFE (.1 channel), then all of the sounds dedicated to the sub channel in the mix should go to the sub channel, so if my memory is correct, yes you could be missing some of the stuff that is supposed to go there by cutting off the frequency too low. I could be incorrect in this as the AVR *should* (but may not) still send those frequencies elsewhere, but if you do send those frequencies elsewhere, it could make the other speakers work overtime and the sub wouldn't really be utilized as it should be.OK I get it now, I was confused also.
Does the LFE channel have info that does not go to the other speakers ?
Say if you were connecting a sub with normal speaker wires and not with the "sub out" would you be missing some info ?
B. It shouldn't as the crossover should still recognize it as being the sub (.1 channel)
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Read my posts! =^PThat may be why svs said to set it at 120.
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Having a lower crossover may work better for music, but the 120 for movies is highly recommended.I wrote down what svs said to set the lfe and that was 120, but he also said to turn the sub cross over off and turn the dial up to 120 on the sub. then he said thet the LFE to 120 on the receiver. I will double check that tomorrow.
I could very well be wrong but I would think they would suggest 120Hz for both your pre/pro and for your sub xovers. Just seems too high to me. But then again, I'm not an audiophile either.
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They were telling him to turn off the crossover on the sub and just use the crossover on the pre/pro. No reason to double up, and it's better to let the AVR do the work so it sends the correct frequencies to the correct speakers.I wrote down what svs said to set the lfe and that was 120, but he also said to turn the sub cross over off and turn the dial up to 120 on the sub. then he said thet the LFE to 120 on the receiver. I will double check that tomorrow.
I could very well be wrong but I would think they would suggest 120Hz for both your pre/pro and for your sub xovers. Just seems too high to me. But then again, I'm not an audiophile either.
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@Youthman, you should really try raising the crossover on your subs up to 120 and see how you like it. I think you will see (hear) a whole lot more from your subs if you give them more to play with.
Have Klipsch Pro-Media GMX D-5.1, want to listen to DTS sound
in Technical/Restorations
Posted
I would say that you are going to have to look for a new setup...Those speakers don't handle much power, so I doubt you'll be able to find something that decodes the lossless formats and doesn't have more power than those can handle safely. I'm not familiar with the connections on it tho, so you may be able to rig something up...I really don't think so tho...