CANT
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Posts posted by CANT
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1.3mH P-Core mounted next to the input cup on the back wall
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Thank you, I am quite tired of being miserable so hopefully I am about done with this sickness business.
I originally read about the 4500 mod in relation to the Crites CT125 tweeter replacement. A few people had commented that the mod was an improvement so I wanted to look into it further. I ended up not seeing the need to bother with it though.
Speaking of tweeters... I ended up getting a really good deal on a pair of K792's, so when I test them this weekend I will take those pictures of the new crossovers.
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It was just an option that existed prior to my project... and I wanted to explore as many options as I could?
When I don't feel like death I will post some pics....
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Well, I finally have a pair of working pair of Heresy...
After wasting more money on woofers and crossover components than I would care to admit...
I've
always had a hard time take someone else's word. Have to test/try
everything for myself. I can't say I am all that good at reporting on my
process either, unfortunately.The end results:
K-76-Ti (via Crites)
K-53-K
K-28-E
Clarity Cap SA 2.2uf
Jantzen 15awg Air 0.15mH
Mundorf Mcap 3.9uf + Dayton DFFC 0.1uf
Dayton Vintage 30uf + Mundorf Mcap 6.8uf + Dayton DFFC 0.2uf
Erse 14awg Air 0.2mH
T2A (tap 2, -9db) + Mundorf MOX 10ohm Resistor
Jantzen 15awg P-core 1.3mH
These
components make up an ALK jr network. I have also thrown a removable
Mills 1ohm resistor between the input and the roughly 37uf capacitor
that leads to the tweeter and mid. I prefer it others may not.A few things I will note:
Of
all the woofers I tried to the K-22-K seemed the worst. The ones I have
came out the THSR-2's I started with. From a production standpoint, I
don't see any reason for these K-22-K's to be any different than those
found in a regular Heresy but the measurements I took do not match what I
can find online (like an Le of 2.3mH @ 1Khz). Also the K-28-E was very
similar to the Delta 12LFA but I think the larger magnet on the Delta
did more to raise the upper khz response than the lower hz response .After
comparing the T2A and T7A I preferred the -10db but the -9db (T2A)
sounded warmer. Thus the 1ohm resistor. I believe what I noticed was due
to the slightly larger wire gauge of the T2A. I’ve heard very good
things about the Crites/ALK autoformers and may buy a pair the next time
I find myself with funds? Though I’m probably ok where I am at...The
ALK Cornscala-wall and other ALK variations sounded more lively but
less balanced or harder to balance. The woofer generally made a BIG
difference on which network was preferred. I chose what worked for me. I
really thought I would prefer a higher order setup like that found in
the HIII and some ALK designs but ended up finding them slightly
troublesome.I HATE the “constant K” filter that appears in most of the stock Heritage networks. (eg. 1.5uf - 0.15mH - 1.5uf)
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No, I did not desolder any of the inductors measured... all of the measurements list are in network measurements that have been adjust to reflect a -10% variance I noted measuring KG4 inductors in and out of network as a baseline. Removing the inductors or lifting one leg would have been the more precise to take the measurements but I didn't want to damage the inductors since I was not replacing them at this time.
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I do have schematics of a few ALK designs but if I remember correctly I do not have that one...
I REALLY want to get these put back together but have had zero to play with them lately
At this point all I know is that I am leaning toward a 2nd order on the woofer and mid with a non K type 3rd on the tweeter and that I prefer the T7A to the T2A on the mid. I am also in the process of deciding between a -2db fixed pad on the tweeter or using the leftover T2A's for a -3db?
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...and here is the KG1.2
Again, I have replace the resistor and both caps in the tweeter circuit. I believe the original values were 5ohm, 5uf and 8uf.
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Here is an update for the KG2.2... after metering a few known inductor values in and out of network I found I had to allow for a higher in network variance. I should also mention that I previously upgraded the resistor and both capacitors in the tweeter circuit so what is listed is the replacement value. The original values were 1ohm, 4uf and 8uf I believe?
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Well, still no H3 but I was able to secure a rough copy of a CW3 schematic which probably isn't all that different given the components used in both... Id still like to see an H3 as well but the CW3 diagram at least gave me an idea of where they took the 3 series. Im kind of surprised I havent been able to acquire an H3? Its been out for quite a while now, youd think someone would have metered it by now?
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In case any one else needs it....
I know the KG1.2 is basically the same but I need to crack them back open to meter the inductors just to make sure.
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I have posted these on craigslist locally but also thought I would see if any one on here was interested...
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For now, in lieu of HIII info, can any one tell me if there is any real benefit to lowering the tweeter/midrange crossover point from 6K on an HII? Most the of information on the 4.5K mod I can find is in reference to older heritage models using K77/K55's but they obviously use different network arrangements than newer models. There is a 4500 mod for one of the ALK networks that seems more universal but I'm just not sure it is necessary?
Thank you for your time,
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I finally broke down and bought a meter to measure inductors so I should have what I need now...
Thanks
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Right, much simpler to learn what components were originally used and do a rebuild as opposed to the alternative which involves a lot of headaches and disappointments.
You cannot use a crossover designed for one loudspeaker in something else.
The Heresy III is a current production loudspeaker. Klipsch does not release schematics for those, though I do seem to remember someone around here reverse engineering the thing. Still, of no use to you unless you use the same size box with the same components.
If the cabinet is the same size as a Heresy, you could properly plug the port and buy what you need from Bob Crites. I would use the crossover designed by John Albright. If you ever get to that point, I'll post the schematic.
This would be exactly what I am looking for... and I am not saying I would definitely use all or any of the design, I am just very curious to see it.
What is the Albright design?
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The THSR-2 was a Heresy II used for theater surround. It used an HII box, K53K mid, K22K woofer and a piece of 1/8 plywood glued and stapled over the tweeter cutout. My boxes have the circular input cups but had the actual crossovers mounted to boards, others could be different. I know there is a post on here somewhere that discusses the original crossovers if you are curious but I dismantled them quite a while ago. As for building a new crossover I have both T2A and T7A autoformers, inductors ranging from .16 to 4mH and enough random caps to make what ever test value I could need. Once I have found the setup I am looking for I will buy the correct values in something of appropriate quality.
As a side note, I have tested out the Eminence Delta-12lfa woofer and have a pair of, what should be, K28's on their way so the K22's are not definitely going back in... and I also have a pair of Crites Ti diaphragms sitting around that will make their way into this project later on.
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Does anyone have these by any chance???
Thank you for your time,
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Last fall I bought a bunch of equipment from a guy that worked for a local Dickinson theater before it closed. Included in this lot were several Crown amplifiers and 4 Klipsch THSR-2's in various states of neglect. I was able to salvage 2 of the 4 cabinets, repainted them and started looking into what it would take to convert them into Heresy's. I picked up a pair of K76's and a couple of stock HII crossovers to get started but had planned from the beginning to build my own networks. At this point I have tried out a few different configurations using stuff I had lying around but haven't been totally happy with any of the results... Lately I've been looking into the HIII crossover but haven't really been able to find the information I need. I did find one gentleman who was/is willing to help me but he is currently incapacitated and it could be a while so I thought I would see if anybody on here could help me out as well. I am mostly interested in the tweeter and mid-range circuits but will take just about any info you can provide.
GSYBE
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They sound great! So far this is my favorite arrangement... and the one I will likely stick with. I have also tried Daytona/Bennic 5%, Daytona/Bennic 1%, Jantzen Standard Z, Mundorf MCap 250V and Clarity Cap PX in the HP filter. The Daytona/Bennic and Jantzen seem to be interchangeable and are more than adequate replacements for the stock pieces while the Clarity line tends to sound darker and the Mundorf brighter. In both of the later cases going up the product line ladder seems to open the sound up a bit and diminish the lines natural equalizing tendencies. As does mixing them rather than using one brand or the other in both HP positions. As for the LP filter... I can't say I notice much change? Though the stock KG4 LP inductor is pretty beefy compared to the other Klipsch models I've seen?
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Oh, and all of the crossover components I am using in this build are new.
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I tend to be very good at asking unclear questions... and I fully expect vague answers in return. The exchange sometimes helps me think though and opens up dialog that may not have existed had I been more specific. I apologize for any frustration. On a more specific note, I can say that the KG4 test was interesting. I really didnt think the orientation would have an impact. Aside from the added volume of air now in the cab nothing was changing and how much air could that possibly be (if someone wants to do the math have at it)? I guess enough? In comparison I seemed to notice more low bass and less low midrange frequencies, obviously retuning the arrangement. I can not say I was a fan of the KG4 with this new PR orientation but it was a useful test.
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I would prefer, for now, not to expose my full project to avoid opinion based comments...
What you said about tuning did make me realize I could flip one of my KG4 PR's around and A - B the pair as an experiment! I'm not sure I have a good way to restrict the cut out for the PR to test that aspect though?
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My first question is does the orientation of the radiator affect its performance (or anything else)? I dont mean where on the box either I mean with the spider on interior of the box or on the exterior. I cant think of anything right off the bat that would affect the performance either way but there may be an issue with spider resonance or something?
Second, If you were to mount the radiator with the spider on the exterior of the cabinet how might the opening affect its performance. I.E. mounting a 12in radiator over a 10in opening or a 4in opening?
It might also be helpful to know this idea is in reference to woofer and not a subwoofer
Thank you in advance for your assistance.
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Thank you to everyone who replied. I ended up picking up a pair of 76's on ebay for just shy of $40... So no I am off to sort out my crossovers... but that is for another post.
Heresy X Project Finished
in Technical/Restorations
Posted
The rest of the network:
Left - T2A w/ 10ohm resistor
Center - The entire tweeter circuit and midrange inductor
Right - The roughly 37uf capacitor feeding the both the tweeter and midrange w/ 1ohm resistor