gadgtfreek
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Posts posted by gadgtfreek
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true guess i didnt think about it like that. i have a 50". mu buddy has a 158" and they flank each side of that. so anchored to screen perfectlyScrappy, I see the good and the bad in it, or hear it. When they were 10.5 feet or so apart, dealing with a 65" display (about 56" wide IIRC) the problem is some things sound like they happen across the room when they in fact were at the corner of the screen. I get both sides to the argument.I think that is it. I mean these 7ii's can go wide especially with the 64ii in the middle, but if you get 4 feet off the edge of the screen on both sides the effect is "weird".
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I pulled it all out and started from scratch tonight with REW sweeps. I found no matter what I did with the center, it had a lot of dips and peaks. The 7ii mains have a very good freq response from the get go, so much of my up and down FR after audyssey runs is probably due to the center. I also found my subs work much much better outside the mains. Their FR without any eq applied is freaking nice from 10hz to 120hz, so I can't wait to see the after XT32 result tomorrow. What this meant is the mains can only be so far apart from each other (about 8ft, down from the 10 feet they were). Their FR was nice at the MLP and the further they got away from the wall the happier they were, so I moved them out as far as possible. Toe in was also good and bad depending on the part of the chart you looked at. It was a very informative experience and it may lead me to try and see what kind of results I can get with and without the center.
Scrappy, I see the good and the bad in it, or hear it. When they were 10.5 feet or so apart, dealing with a 65" display (about 56" wide IIRC) the problem is some things sound like they happen across the room when they in fact were at the corner of the screen. I get both sides to the argument.
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I know I know. it is fun though and I am trying to absorb it all in and tinker because, once that second sub is in place, i want to stop and leave it be... I do have a center channel issue to try and work out though and that is for this evening. Sub should be here Wed so the whole project is almost done. I have learned a lot about audio, speaker placement and more about dips and modes than I wanted to know.
Out of curiosoty, where did you end up putting your 63's apart? I am probably going for 7 feet or so on the 7ii's, maybe less. For HT some recommendations with main speaker placement it drops more from the eq triangle method to some saying something like 1.5 times the distance between mains should equal the distance from you to the center. So about 6.5 feet for my 9.5ft distance.
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I get two channel is more music related, but going back to how good my 7ii's sound with music (very centered) and it sounds "worse" when I add the center
For movies, always RF-63>>>>RC-64<<<<RF63. I think the RC-64 mates best with RF-63's and my front stage is pretty seamless. For music I listen in "Enhanced Stereo"(all channels and subs) most of the time and stereo sometimes in my main rig. Of course stereo or stereo/sub in my 2-channel systems.
Bill
Thanks. I also have to try moving my mains back in. Now that I have some time on them, I think I spread them out too far and it is affecting things. It's gonna take a good bit of eval before I perfect it but I am trying everything. Problem is now using REW, it gives me more stuff to try and tweak LOL
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Thanks for the input.
I am tinkering with ideas because
1) The CC is my room has some freq resp issues (dips) that the mains do not. Sits on a stand below the display and aims up at us
2) the 7ii's sound GREAT when I run them by themselves in pure direct music. I mean even in my slightly off center seat it sounds balanced. When I got from 2.2 to 3.2 music, it just doesnt sound good.
I get music is different, but I have to wonder if some HT doesnt apply.
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I will just curious as to distances and other tips. As much as I enjoy moving speakers around...
Their quality of sound running 2 channel made me curious. It's obvious when I flip from all speakers to those two for music, but maybe HT will vary. It seems the 7ii's are more than capable of handling a PC role though, but I guess you gotta flank the display pretty well.
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I have been tinkering with my room and first posted this in the HT forum, but I think this may be a better place.
I get two channel is more music related, but going back to how good my 7ii's sound with music (very centered) and it sounds "worse" when I add the center, I was wondering if any of you guys watch your movies this way? And what your experience is.
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Just wondering. Curious as to how 7ii's would be in a phantom center setup.
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Local PU (Mobile, Alabama area). Purchased from Hsu 2/2014 new, satin black and works perfectly.
$450. -
Thanks.
It will be easy to check when i get home today, takes longer to set up the gear lol. I will start at current position and measure raw sweeps, moving back 2" each time. I guess at some point, even though the center is aimed up, moving it back will be too far behind the front of the tv stand it is on and negatively affect something else?
I am also going to put the subs back outside the mains when I get the new sub in. I think they (mains) are spread a little too far now.
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Looking at that center run without XT32, it has a good dip after 100 and one at 500. The fronts do not have a dip at 500 and their dip after 100 is not as deep as the center. Do you think moving the center back a few inches would help any of that? I cannot move it forward but it could go back. I figure if I helped that 100 dip on the center it would help all of their dips their with XT32 on.
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Ordering the 2nd FV15HP shortly.
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Did some budgeting, FV15HP #2 will be on order around 6/28!
Next time I get a day, I am going to move my subs from inside the mains to outside, as wide as I can get both, and see if that helps the 150hz dip or the 22hz dip.
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I just went from 82II's and 62II to 7II's and 64II. Money well spent in clarity and more prescence. 2 channel music sounds like nothing I ever heard before as well. The 64II offers a lot of meat/growl in the center and very good clarity. Not that the others were "bad", these are just "better".
I see them as speakers that are diminishing returns for me now with regards to upgrade. I would have to spend a lot more $$$ than I am probably willing to make anything more than a lateral move, so they are with me for a long time.
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Yeah, Id say its not power. For example, when all my gear is off my power reads about 123. With it all on it reads about 118(today for example and I never have any problems.
Running off the same circuit:
Dish DVR
65" Plasma
VTF15 sub and FV15HP sub
Maranatz 7702 preamp
Outlaw 7500 amp (200wx5 with dual large torroidal transformers)
I can run reference level volumes for 2 hours without issues. If your voltage is fine then it should not be a power issue.
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Here are just the subs
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Here is a full run from today, with the sub setup I like most. Xt32 on and speakers crossed at 80hz.
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What do you guys think about these 3 graphs and the concept of crossing the mains and center at 60 and not 80?
80hz xover
60hz
40hz
I think they look well in that 50-70hz range. The red is a sub measurement on a couple of them. They look like the extend down under 50hz without issue in the 40h setting. XT32 of course sets the mains at large and the center small and 40hz, which I then change them to 80hz and small.
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I am going to do one final shot of graphs tomorrow. Try out some compression sweeps with both subs in 2 ports open mode before I move them both back to one port open mode (that will be where they are left), and then do some compression sweeps again.
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Using the BAS cd with test tones that Hsu sends you, this is the reference volume differences between dual VTF's in max extension mode to one VTF15 in max ext + the FV15HP in 1 port open, 14hz, low damp.
Test tone---VTF's db---Mixed Subs 1 port---Mixed subs 2 ports
16hz---85.8---92.5---82.7
20hz---85.1---93.2---90.2
25hz---84.4---91.4---92
31.5hz---88.5---94.5---92.9
40hz---92.5---96.5---94
50hz---94.6---97.8---94.4
63hz---96.2---97.5---94.2
80hz---98---97.9---97.1
100---98.4---100.7---95.1
In bayformers 1, there is a deep bass hit near the end of the movie on the highway fight scene, right after the MRAP decepticon runs thru the middle of the bus and destroys it:
107.3db---109.2db---108.7
In the city battle at the end, when iron hide flips over the lady sitting in the street, there is another good bass drop
108.3---111.7---110.3
Measure at the MLP with a Galaxy CM140 meter -
I wish you could get more bass from little enclosures LOL.
That is where they FV15HP and VTFMK1 are similar and different. Size is right there, granted the FV15HP is a little smaller which is NICE, but the quality build of the woofer and twice the power gives it the muscle.
Also looks better IMO. I like the ports are covered up (dog toys and dust), and the matte finish is better than my VTF15's finish for marks and fingerprints.
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Nice to see another Rythmik fan on this site!
I am impressed. For one, Hsu, SVS and Rythmik are well designed offering you several tuning modes, instead of just a port and "deal with the results". Not that it is a bad thing, but by all reports one port plugged for max extension means LESS output. And they test that way in a field, or whatever. However, in my room, one port plugged digs deeper and is louder than 2 ports, but room gain comes in here I guess. Which is why I am glad I spent $100 getting into REW, for simply testing sub modes. You really do not know what the best mode is until you can test, or have someone test for you.
I knew the FV15HP would have more power, but the numbers I have seen by just replacing one Hsu at 12, 16 and 20hz has been pretty cool, and I cannot wait to get the other. Let me be straight though, the VTF15MK1's have served me well and gave outstanding bass for a few years. I'm just getting more into it and making the next step. A lot of what held the VTF15MK1 back (driver is not as well built as the SVS and Rythmik models and the amp is underpowered) has been changed with the MK2. Which is why I had to decide to get two of those or the Rythmiks. When I decided to go dual 15"s a few years ago, my ranking was FV15HP, PB13 ultra and then VTF15. I went with dual VTF's because of budget, so this go around I decided to go with the guys I wanted the first time. IMO, SVS is gonna be in a pickle with the new VTF output/pricing and the new dual 18" from PSA and its output/pricing.
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Did some more testing today. I set the Rythmik up in 1 port open, low damp mode and 14hz, and the Hsu in max extension 1 port mode. And then set them up in their 2 ports mode.
The red is of course both of them in 1 port open calibrated by XT32. This mode really digs deep and when the sweep ramps up from REW the 1 port open mode starts rattling stuff early. I also have a BAS test tone CD, and with the 16hz tone the 2 ports mode is quiet as a mouse, the 1 port mode not so much.They are very similar until you hit 20hz.
One other thing I wanna do is set the fronts and center xover to 40hz and see how they roll off down low.
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And the room is even worse than it looks.
To the left of sub one (from the MLP) there is a small hallway to a bedroom and a bathroom. So they sub can only move to the left so far. On on the other side of that opening is a fireplace. The 13ft wall on the left is actually a window and back door...
Now, the 13 foot wall on the right is not actually a wall. It is open into a dining on the wall the subs are on, and the wall the MLP is on it curves into a kitchen. Instead of being a true rectangle, it is a "T". That 4200 cuft measurement doesnt include this whole other area, so the are actually no corners at the front with the subs.
I have some more testing to do, in where I want to run the Rythmik sub in all 6 modes with XT32 off and by itself, to see the freq resp of each. I then want to do all three modes of the VTF15 by itself to see if either have a mode that is similar to each other in result. I figure this is the best way to pair modes from two different branded subs. It'll be awhile before I get the next Rythmik.
i was also told to run sub sweeps to 250hz (LFE crossover up high in XT32) to get an idea where the speakers and subs overlap well for proper setting of the crossover. I have a good feeling the RF7ii's would do fine at 60hz but I need to do some more testing.
2.2 System Question
in 2-Channel Home Audio
Posted
Chris, I think I know the answer, but is aiming speakers based on FR tested a better move, or actually aiming them considering the MLP?
What I saw yesterday is some changed to the center made more sense on the graph, but did not make sense from a standard aiming of the mains and center.
I almost think you properly aim things (aim center up or down at ears and mains toed in gradually) and "it is what it is".