gadgtfreek

I am going to do one final shot of graphs tomorrow. Try out some compression sweeps with both subs in 2 ports open mode before I move them both back to one port open mode (that will be where they are left), and then do some compression sweeps again.

Using the BAS cd with test tones that Hsu sends you, this is the reference volume differences between dual VTF's in max extension mode to one VTF15 in max ext + the FV15HP in 1 port open, 14hz, low damp. Test tone---VTF's db---Mixed Subs 1 port---Mixed subs 2 ports 16hz---85.8---92.5---82.7 20hz---85.1---93.2---90.2 25hz---84.4---91.4---92 31.5hz---88.5---94.5---92.9 40hz---92.5---96.5---94 50hz---94.6---97.8---94.4 63hz---96.2---97.5---94.2 80hz---98---97.9---97.1 100---98.4---100.7---95.1 In bayformers 1, there is a deep bass hit near the end of the movie on the highway fight scene, right after the MRAP decepticon runs thru the middle of the bus and destroys it: 107.3db---109.2db---108.7 In the city battle at the end, when iron hide flips over the lady sitting in the street, there is another good bass drop 108.3---111.7---110.3 Measure at the MLP with a Galaxy CM140 meter

I wish you could get more bass from little enclosures LOL. That is where they FV15HP and VTFMK1 are similar and different. Size is right there, granted the FV15HP is a little smaller which is NICE, but the quality build of the woofer and twice the power gives it the muscle. Also looks better IMO. I like the ports are covered up (dog toys and dust), and the matte finish is better than my VTF15's finish for marks and fingerprints.

I am impressed. For one, Hsu, SVS and Rythmik are well designed offering you several tuning modes, instead of just a port and "deal with the results". Not that it is a bad thing, but by all reports one port plugged for max extension means LESS output. And they test that way in a field, or whatever. However, in my room, one port plugged digs deeper and is louder than 2 ports, but room gain comes in here I guess. Which is why I am glad I spent $100 getting into REW, for simply testing sub modes. You really do not know what the best mode is until you can test, or have someone test for you. I knew the FV15HP would have more power, but the numbers I have seen by just replacing one Hsu at 12, 16 and 20hz has been pretty cool, and I cannot wait to get the other. Let me be straight though, the VTF15MK1's have served me well and gave outstanding bass for a few years. I'm just getting more into it and making the next step. A lot of what held the VTF15MK1 back (driver is not as well built as the SVS and Rythmik models and the amp is underpowered) has been changed with the MK2. Which is why I had to decide to get two of those or the Rythmiks. When I decided to go dual 15"s a few years ago, my ranking was FV15HP, PB13 ultra and then VTF15. I went with dual VTF's because of budget, so this go around I decided to go with the guys I wanted the first time. IMO, SVS is gonna be in a pickle with the new VTF output/pricing and the new dual 18" from PSA and its output/pricing.

Did some more testing today. I set the Rythmik up in 1 port open, low damp mode and 14hz, and the Hsu in max extension 1 port mode. And then set them up in their 2 ports mode. The red is of course both of them in 1 port open calibrated by XT32. This mode really digs deep and when the sweep ramps up from REW the 1 port open mode starts rattling stuff early. I also have a BAS test tone CD, and with the 16hz tone the 2 ports mode is quiet as a mouse, the 1 port mode not so much.They are very similar until you hit 20hz. One other thing I wanna do is set the fronts and center xover to 40hz and see how they roll off down low.

And the room is even worse than it looks. To the left of sub one (from the MLP) there is a small hallway to a bedroom and a bathroom. So they sub can only move to the left so far. On on the other side of that opening is a fireplace. The 13ft wall on the left is actually a window and back door... Now, the 13 foot wall on the right is not actually a wall. It is open into a dining on the wall the subs are on, and the wall the MLP is on it curves into a kitchen. Instead of being a true rectangle, it is a "T". That 4200 cuft measurement doesnt include this whole other area, so the are actually no corners at the front with the subs. I have some more testing to do, in where I want to run the Rythmik sub in all 6 modes with XT32 off and by itself, to see the freq resp of each. I then want to do all three modes of the VTF15 by itself to see if either have a mode that is similar to each other in result. I figure this is the best way to pair modes from two different branded subs. It'll be awhile before I get the next Rythmik. i was also told to run sub sweeps to 250hz (LFE crossover up high in XT32) to get an idea where the speakers and subs overlap well for proper setting of the crossover. I have a good feeling the RF7ii's would do fine at 60hz but I need to do some more testing.

Looks like the left sub is the issue. I input all the heights for the front and left speaker, the two subs, the distance for all them, the room measurements and the MLP data. When I highlighted each sub, the sub to the right was fine, but the sub to the left just drops off the chart under after it makes that 24hz bump. If I put the subs back to where they were on the outside of the fronts, instead of inside, the right sub is still fine and the left sub peaks up the match the "main" graph very closely. I wonder if I should not move my fronts back inside as it seems the farther spread out sub 1 is on the left the better under 30hz. Left sub inside Right sub inside Left outside Rigtht outside

Freaking sweet!!! I admit I havent had time between work, learning REW basics and getting my laptop setup to play with more than the measure and SPL features. I may send another donation REW's way, the software really is cool. On that note, I went ahead and ordered a verified CM140 SPL meter from Cross Spectrum. I am seeing some odd issues using the Umik 1 as an spl meter, and when comparing the Umik 1 numbers to the SPL meter I have, my ears tell me the SPL meter is giving a better level result. I have no choice but to level match after XT32 completes because the 64ii adjustment bottoms out at -12db. So, it is very important that I can accuracy match the subs and speakers to 75db at reference volume on my preamp. The CM140 is good for 31.5hz to 8khz and the -30 and -40dbfs tones on the blu-ray I have are 30hz to 2khz pink noise. I spoke with Herb at cross spectrum about this yesterday, and I gotta go with the recommendation from the guy who went to MIT and is engineer.

http://gikacoustics.co.uk/what-are-room-modes/ Found that. I need to do the calculations tonight or tomorrow and see what it tells me. Below is the formula for calculating all room modes, not just the axials. F = c/2 * sqrt(p^2/L^2 + q^2/W^2 + r^2/H^2) F= Frequency c = speed of sound (1130 feet per second or 344 meters per second) sqrt = Square Root ^2 = squared L = Length of Room W = Width of Room H = Height of Room

Run after the new sub was put in. The sub response from 10-80 is better with one rythmik and one hsu, vs two hsu's. makes me wonder what it will be like when I get the second rythmik. it digs to 12hz.

Pics and observations: I like the finish better than the Hsu Amp knobs with the "clicks" are a lot easier to adjust when trying to get the volume right for audyssey, and trying to hit a certain spot in general Prefer the matte finish to the Hsu. Hsu shows touch spots from an arm or hand, FV15HP does not Love that it is slightly smaller Think the full face cover (can't see ports) looks better, especially with dust The way it was packed with images on how to unpack was well thought out Fit in finish over all seem to be a step (slight) over that of the Hsu Beefy power cord

Just swapping one sub out made an improvement to my eyes, have to test the ears later. Also wanna do some SPL checks with the test tones and movie scene at reference volume and see what happens. Dual VTF's One FV15HP and one VTFMK4

Sweet.

Only thing that keeps me with D&M is XT32. Its proven to do a good job and has dual sub eq. MCACC was rough at first but the Pro versions have come a long way. And right now Dirac is putting the heat on Audyssey, who hasnt changed much in a few years.

That looks like a room mode at 22 Hz. What are the dimensions of your room and where did you place your microphone relative to the subwoofer(s)? You can usually see if there is a room mode issue by looking at the group delay plot in REW--if GD is high at the frequency area of interest, you're probably looking at room mode or speaker placement. Are you running an upsweep from REW and using that to drive your system, or are you using a CD to generate a drive signal? Chris I used the REW and my laptop as the up sweep generator. I am going to have to do more reading on null's and room modes, etc... I am a newbie at this for sure. The subs are on both sides of the tv stand, by the fronts and the measurement was taken at the MLP about 10.5 feet away. I probably will not attack anything further until I get both subs changed out and see what I am dealing with too, so I have some time to research the problem. The subs are where they are too, I cannot move them anywhere else.

It copies the "base curve" over, not the final result where audyssey has applied the filters. The 9 band eq's cannot make the adjustments needed to best the audyssey cal. https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries/474096-Audyssey-adjustments-and-manual-EQ Next time I have my AV guy over we are gonna talk Gik acoustic panel placement. I am not in any hurry for the dsp, I am real happy with XT32. I mainly got into REW for subwoofer tinkering, and I still have another subwoofer to pay for

IIRC, using the manual eq copying over the base curve limits you to the 9 band eq and none of the high resolution filters XT32 uses. Probably not the best move. The best move really is a device with a parametric eq built in, and then use REW or Dirac to calibrate it from the get go. Knowing my upgraditis I am sure I will end up with a mini dsp...

They are in Florida, and usually ship a product the next day. So its not bad.

Id take the integra or 4520, XT32 is worth it.

It def does a good job IMO, when you compare off and on. I have always been happy with XT32 when done right, and when speakers are setup right. My main purpose for getting into REW was to see what changes would do, like the sub tuning, and to be able to more accurately level match. I may get into Dirac down the road, but thats about $900. Coolest thing about REW is all I have in it is $25 for a long HDMI and USB ext cable, $110 for the mic, and the donation I sent the guy that writes REW. CHEAP.

None really that I know of. I can't make any adjustments to XT32 other than level match and I did that, distances are OK. My next step would be a minidsp with Dirac, but I gotta get my second sub first. As far as the sub, I can run in low freq tuning or 24hz, and obviously low freq is better. I checked output with test tones from 16hz to 80hz on a CD I have. 17hz mode yielded 10db more at 16 and 20, and was pretty much the same at levels higher than that. Tested using reference volume on the AVR. I think the FV15HP's have a parametric EQ on them so I can probably work out the sub dip at 22hz with it.

Yeah, Im learning. I re-did it because these two subs in 25hz tuning were not good at all, should have been running in max extension mode because now the 16-20hz is flat and only about 5db off 40-60 and close to 25-40. This will give me a good comparison for tomorrow when I swap one VTF15 for the Rythmik, and then once I can install the second Rythmik. One other great thing is, since I have to level match the 64ii since XT32 bottoms it out, I feel a lot more confident using an audio blu-ray, REW and the Umik-1 for accurate SPL adjustments (matching all speakers to 75db with pink noise).

It was a chore, but I got it all going and was able to test my setup. Especially wanted to do this before the sub change. XT32 On XT32 Off XT32 "Flat"

I run 3.2 with XT32 and dual sub eq and love it. I have two friends with decent 5.1 setups and theirs does not sound as good as mine. Probably because of the quality of their speakers, placement/setup, and lack of quality subwooferage...

Those older Panny's with their in house Uniphier chip had amazing PQ, but they did cheap up on build to drive down pricing. When they switched to mediatek chipsets in 2013, they started clipping chroma resolution when I checked on spears and munsil, really pissed me off because they were my favorite player. Sony got better at what they do, so they are the best "cheap" and "accurate" right now. The current Panny app offering is not as good as the Sony either. I think the Uniphier chip comes back from the dead in the new UHD player coming from them late this year, so hopefully Panny can get it's mojo back.