2Bmusic

In full disclosure I am looking for the best sound possible. The means to get there is unknown to me at this time. Maybe I have arrived. AS you know I had a P/P 25 watt EL84 mono block set up. It sound a smidgen better than the yammy 1030... but only on a very few songs. 3 days and 3 sets of ears could not tell one from the other. 1. I have no idea who else sells tubes or SS that I could try other than the Pass30.8. Six moons review of that amp simply said ( in my words here) the 30.8 is over the top good. And that was against mega buck tube and SS Power AMPS. Like the review I linked to above, and my electronics background, prove that listening at 1 watt you need at least 20 more to pull from during dynamic passes. I am not up to building anything. Mike Sanders of QS fame and Nelson Pass are far more accomplished than I in that realm. There is nothing wrong with having a 30 watt SS amp playing at one 1 watt. With out question some music will dig into the 25 watt mark. That is the reason for that pass 30.8 At Best buy they have $50,000 worth of Mac amp preamp etc playing into $15,000 martin logans. Horrible compared to my khorns. When my K horns were puiing 1 watt the ML's were pulling 75. Point is the 30.8 power wise is certainly not to much power. If I never use the last 5 or so watts, all the better. The more power you pull from any amp, the more distortion it makes. I love my horns because they address the issue of efficiency. The Folded Bass is a wonder of the universe. ( there may be others, but they will cost way WAY more than what I paid for these 20+ yr old Khorns. I do not want or need to spend ~4 Large on a used 30.8. But if the sound is way better, then that is good. Same thing goes for tubes. I would try A&S casablancas but once you buy they are yours. NOT going to happen for me.

What tube amp sounds good with Khorns. Thus far the QS horn mono and Big Ben.. were no better than the yamaha HT 1030. I wonder if it could be due to my set up? Mac to Stealth DC-1 ( emotiva) used as pre-amp as well? It is a reference level device.

You say tubes are king. I have to say that the s e t big ben from amps and sound did sound great on the laScalas. But much of the base was missing. There fore much of the music was missing. Heck even watching TV... the big bang theory is amazing when they switch scenes. I never heard that with the lascalas..... AT ALL !!! The k horns to lascalas is so vastly different. I guess I would need to by amp the khorns. Tubes up top and 200 watt ss for bass..... like this guy! > http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/reviewers/acolinflood.htm

WDECHO... do you really think it will sound better than the 1030? Today i was able to connect my macbook to the 1030 via air play. That connection sounds better than the usb. MaYBE BECAUSE THE the signal path is different. NOW it is: Mac to 1030 via wifi. Wifi to the 1030. THEN the 1030 does the D to A conversion. AMAZING technology!

I guess I do not deserve to be in your company. Why? Well, because the verdict is in. LONG LONG story short... After A/B the QS horn monos and my Aventage 1030 for 3 days about 3 to 5 hrs per day.... swapped speakers from one amp to the other...my self, my wife and another person could not tell much of a difference. They both sounded very good. Can the system ( khorns) sound better? HECK FIRE i have no idea. I have bought and returned a Emotiva XPA2, First Watt F6, and the Horn Monos. The Yammy is just that good. I hate to say it. I am very disappointed. Either my ears are worthless or the difference is not worth mentioning. I Also tried $580. interconnect cables. Maybe my Stealth DC-1 is the bottle neck. I do not know. BUT.... I do know this. The 1030 is plenty good enough. And the fact that I only paid $500 for it is even better. I would still like to try the Pass 30.8. But for that much money, it would have to be spectacularly better. I do not think it will be. FYI... the signal path is mac book pro 2015 to Stealth DC-1 via a 12 foot $5.00 USB cable to the HT Yamaha 1030 to the Khorns via "monoprice' 16 gauge speaker cable. I think to bring it to life ( more than what it is) I need to spin vinyl. ANY ONE HAVE Suggestions for a turn table? Can I get by with out spending the $2,100 for a VPI Scout. In other words am I throwing money away on a $600 Pro-jec type? SIGNED.... FLUMUXED !

Not very often someone with 56 posts gets this, but TRVTH Dave I guess you are saying there is truth in my comment? Yes. And I don't hand those out very often. Dave Thank you for the compliment! In full disclosure... I have been familiar with Distortion free equipment since I graduated the Navy Electronics Course Equivalent back in 1976. My final paper was on Klipschorns and related. So.... only 50 some odd posts but a lifetime of experience....... Just saying...

Well 2 hours later and Viola! Cold soldered joint on bias resistor to one of the EL p/p tubes. Sounds very good. Better than my Advantage 1030.... not sure. Playing Bella Flecks Cosmic hippo, the base is so strong that I had to turn it down with equalizer on the iTunes control panel! Yes, I like it!

Not very often someone with 56 posts gets this, but TRVTH Dave I guess you are saying there is truth in my comment?

Now for some good news. I was out of town, and while I had a few minutes stopped into an Audio HIFI place. Several rooms set up with equipment from the $1,500 to $40,000 range. I could not believe my ears! Seriously, I am not exaggerating... the $35,000 set up sounded worse than the $1,500 by a long shot. My ears have become to attuned to the distortion free KHorns, I have no words. Simply amazing and shocked by what I heard and did not hear! KLIPSCHORNS RULE ALL OTHERS ARE PRETEND!!!

well bad news.... bad news indeed! I am truly broken hearted! one amp works ( dead silent & sounds good) , the other hums and does not. ( It does play music for a second after being turned off) I just got off the phone with Mike from quicksilver. He gave me a few ideas of things to check, nothing seems wrong. He has no clue as to what the problem is. But it does not play and has 60 cycle hum. I was so looking forward to this! I will spend a few hours comparing one side to the other with a DVM. I swapped tubes, different sockets, power cords, receptacles etc. No villain has been found. DAMN THE LUCK! If anyone wants to call and see if we can fix this that would be great. If not they go back on Monday.......and I save up for a pass labs 30.8. thanks, Dave 337-591-0910

Quicksilver horn mono's arrived... review ( as it were) coming in the next few days and I had a really big surprise that I will tell you about... HINT * ......a non-klipsh audio shop...

VERY VERY NICE! Love It! Please give us a run down specs, costs etc if you don't mind.

Thanks for that Link! Looks like some truly wonderful tunes will soon be wafting though the air in Rayne Louisiana!

If you are referring to the air in tubes, please allow me to at least add my slant. The electrons in a tube move at close to the speed of light.... or about the same speed at which they move through a conductor. When they move through a solid state device ( xistor) they move through what are called "holes". This takes time and that is why you have hysteresis in SS. Also the trace curve of a SS device does not rise and fall in the same place on both sides. Again hysteresis. This actually means that and because transistors hold a charge, they are not as kind to music as tubes are. Engineers do numerous things ( like feed-back) to help solve this problem. Long story short.... that thing you want to hear with transistors but you do not, and that sound you want to hear with tubes and you do is because of this effect I just described. How do I know this. I got it from an Electrical Engineer that have been building Great sounding HiFi for over 40 years. Another thing that I learned was that quality of transistors today are not like the ones of old. This fact is born out as one of the reasons NP spent almost 1/2 million bucks for his stash of superior SS devices. As for something added in the recording... MANY MANY OF THE BETTER recording studios USE TUBES!!!! Many Musicians prefer tubes. They know how the music sounded when they played it. They more often than not choose tubes to get as close as they can.

You attributed lack of bass to the difference in speakers not the difference in amps correct? I have a Stereo 15 amp from Justin on a pair of Cornscallas and there is absolutely no lack of bass there. lack of bass ( base) ( bass looks funny... like the bass fish...) is because LaScalas low freq cut off is around ~ 40 hz and starts at~ 50. This is because they were purposed for loudspeakers more than to be used as a means to play High Fidelity music. They sound good, don't misunderstand. BUT... When compared to Khorns.... well they don't compare in the realm of HiFi music reproduction. Your Cornscallas will certainly have better base than LaScalas. The folded horn of the Khorn takes BASS to the next level. Have you listened to Khorns set up with good equipment ? When I did, I could not believe my ears. Far better than the Snells of old. SNELLS were reference quality used to determine if this violin or that piano was up to speed. They were used for chamber music reproduction. That is not easy to do.

Maynard, I much MUCH prefer the Khorns over the LaScala's. My Khorns have the back enclosed so I have more options for placement. The Big Ben sounded great on the LS. It really did.... HOWEVER, Base was completely absent when compared to the MIGHTY Khorns! I have found that the khorns really come alive with more than 4 watts. The Quicksilver Audio Horn Mono's are designed by an Electrical Engineer ( Mike) for our horn speakers. 25 watts each should do great. Since they are push-pull AB, the bass will be tight as well. Mike also explained in technical terms how with transistors vs tubes.... that valves really are the best way to amplify audio. Thanks to all who have contributed. I am ordering the Horn Mono-blocks today from Quicksilver audio.

For those who want to participate in this discussion, please take the time to read ESP's take on tubes. ( links are above) important to read that stuff.... Hi Maynard, I am glad you read what Rod Elliot has to say. Thanks for the reply. Also, do you realize that ROD thinks SET are not hifi at all and should be relegated to clock-radios and the like? I put that post together at 1am. I had been reading all day for two days. I was very tired and unable to put the rest of my thoughts down. So here are some more concise thoughts. 1. YES those are Rods opinions. Logically they make sense, but how is one to know how biased they are? 2. TODAY, one has to buy and ship back trial equipment. NOT fun! more to come, heading off to work... POINTS TO PONDER! interesting stuff http://kenrockwell.com/audio/why-tubes-sound-better.htm this is opposite of ESP! Now you might understand my conundrum!

I have been reading everything I can find on Valve and xistor amps. These articles gives one to think tubes really really are not as good as transistors for the many reasons he says. I do not know. What do you folks think? I am not looking for feelings, more on a fact finding mission. Personally I lean strongly to tubes. When I graduated from electronics school transistors were just in their infancy. ( a hint of my youth or lack there-of) http://sound.westhost.com/valves/valve-trans.html part 1 http://sound.westhost.com/valves/valve-trans2.html part 2 please give thoughtful answers. I need an amp for my khorns. I had an F6. It was ok, a little better than my yamaha 1030 HT amp. But not thousands better. The next step/ choice would be the Pass xa30.8 I just hate to spend that much money. At least if I get the 30.8, I can rest assured that it does not get much better. What makes this so difficult is so many say, "this amp or that sounds just like valve amp". Heck just buy a valve amp and be done with it! MY BIGGEST CONCERN IS that when it comes to tubes these days, good ones will be hard to come by. And the thought of having to replace every 1 to 4,000 ( one to three years) hours is damn scary! I was thinking about trying the Quicksilver Audio Horn Mono's. They seem custom made for KHorns! http://www.quicksilveraudio.com/products/hornmono.html

Oh...OK Thanks Roger! I ask about upgrading because best possible sound is what I am looking for. OTOH, at this time, the khorns well surpass my former snells. A/B today might say something different, but from memory of 20 yrs ago, the khorns are wonderful. I could never again own LaScalas after these khorns. In addition, since the back is closed in, corner placement is not critical. Seriously, regardless of price point, I have never heard anything so wonderful!

You have real nice cross overs already. Some guys like to modify their speakers, I for one like my Klipsch all Klipsch and you will loose money on your investment on a hot rod speaker just like a hot rod car! The one exception is I would change out the K-69 on Jubilees for the TAD driver if money were no object, but that is just me Roger I do not understand. I do not have Jubilee's.

YES as soon as I have time. They are black and I am not sure how the pics will come out. I do not think they are the original black since the paint is not smooth everywhere. I am pulling 2 wks of 24 hr call. I definitely want to find out what I have. Thank you!

BTW, have not had time to mess with them. To busy working. I am trying a FIRST WATT F6. So far very impressed!

What about after market Cross overs and Mid range horns? Or should I leave them stock?

Bella, I feel what you want. I am after the same thing. I expect many folks want the sound to be as close to original as possible. We can get close. I doubt we ever fully arrive. BUT WE DO GET VERY CLOSE! After talking to Mark at Reno HiFi, I feel that his advise is very good. This is by no means complete. There is a great deal to getting the best sound. 1. In one way or another, you never arrive. 2. Mark said that he other folks listens to Mc stuff, and when listening to Mc vs First watt or Pass labs, more prefer the NP stuff over Mc. ..... for what that is worth. 3. I had 4~6 watt SET playing into Khorns. Sounded great but was not enough power for the bass notes. Bass note require way more power than Mid and high. 4. I tried 300 wattsSS XPA2 into the Khorns. Now enough for the bass, ( actually more than enough) but mid and high did not sound as good. kind of life less... is best way i can say it. 5. I am hoping that SS will work. Tubes sound good, but they have a limited time of use that they sound the best, then it is down hill from there. Tube testers can not detect this. The only way is to A/B tubes using your ears. When does the degradation occur? NO ONE KNOWS! It happens at different times, because nothing is perfect. I, like you do not want that variable running around in my brain. I tried it ( tube amp) for two yrs with LaScalas. It spoiled the experience for me because I was always wondering. 6. I am trying a FW F6. So far the Khorns produce sound far and away better than any system I have heard. The audio store in another city ( 120 miles from me) has a system that costs $268,000. Mine sounds way better.... which bring to us to my final point. 7. We all listen differently and what you like I might not. Best advise it to listen to a few different amps. That is where Reno comes in. Mark does allow this, there are restrictions, so be sure to ask.

WD... if you had to choose the m2 vs the F6, you say the m2 sounds better. Please explain. I found a deal on an almost new F6. Its just that I would have to move fast. Concerns.. 1. M2 no longer made.....ramifications? 2. F7 to be released in a week or 2. It has no transformer in the circuit save the power supply. Damping factor of >100. and has good reviews. 3....the F6 damping factor ~ 16. This would account for the good base. 4.....F6 no longer made.... ramifications?