steve

Dr Who I think you're probably right! Of course 20 years from now, I hope the music industry is still around! OB, I'm with you..wish the industry cared more about the high end, and not just the portable CD listeners, cheap radios etc. Oh well..just have to make the best of what we have I suppose..

Joshnich, you are correct..(like I had to tell you that!) Some artists are concerned with the way current recording sound via CD..that's why Neil Young fought the urge to re-release five of his favorites on CD as he thought it wasn't a good medium. (On the Beach, Stars and Bars, Times Fade Away and 2 others, names elude me at the moment) He did finally do it, I don't know if someone persuaded him to or not.. Oldbuckster and I enjoy a lot of the same music, by reading this forum. Not speaking for him here, but I think he misunderstood your first statement also. What bothers me a lot, is although I think LPs (to date) sound better than CDs, why can't someone "perfect" the CD, rather than try to fight each other with supposedly better formats (SACD, DVD A etc). Most of us switched formats once..and to some us, in error. I wish we'd all get on the same page and perfect what we have mass marketed. Of course, I'm probably preaching to the choir. Steve

Leo I have gone straight from the CD player to the amp, but the CD player's volume control was useless. It went from loud on step 1 to overboard on the volume at step 2..I then ran it thru a passive volume control, and I had more control, but it still sounded a bit "thin". As for the McIntosh, the amp sounded too laid back for me. The McIntosh preamp sounded wonderful with LPs, but like the Adcom, it too sounded thin with CDs. I have tried other CD players with the same results..although the AH! is still the desired player. I think I may be making too much of this whole thing, and the possible culprit is my not liking a lot of digital recordings..a few, and I mean a few are quite good..they actually do sound "full", and I have some volume control using the preamp. But for most, they sound thin, no (or little) bass, and the louder they go, the worse it gets! The highs get higher, and the lows go away. Before the anti SET camp jumps in here, I get the same thing with SS, only the highs get even more shrill! The bass still takes a nosedive! LPs don't do this, although, yes, any surface noise is apparent. I was wondering what you meant by the "amplitude"? Would putting that passive volume control between my CD player and preamp give me more control of the volume using the control on the pre? I.E a more gradual rise in volume as I turn the knob? Would I be losing any sonics? Like I have mentioned before, I think I may be making too much of this. All my complaints, but I have never heard a (local) rig come even CLOSE to what I am running! And, Lousy Tourist..thanx..but these SETs were built by a reputable name brand company..I don't think they're the problem. And they weren't "cheap" unless 1500 apiece is cheap..and if so..well..OK..they're cheap. Thanx all for input. Steve edit add..Leo, yes, the xovers are correct in phase..and they sound a lot better IMO than the AK2s that I replaced them with..again, I can get wall shaking bass with a handful of CDs and most albums..but not MOST cds..maybe that "amplitude" thing??

Don't forget I tried a brand new McIntosh MC275, and didn't care for it compared to my SET! I guess I don't get the difference between a push/pull and other tube amps. Would that Mac be considered a PP?

Tom I'm glad you started this post, as I've been questioning the same thing. I've had my KHorns for 23 years (just acquiring the Belle for center last year) and although I don't have a problem with the corners, I DO have a problem with the amplification, or moreover, the digital format! Up til 1990 (when I bought into the CD rage) I never questioned these behemoths, never thought about crossover upgrades, etc. With analog recordings, they just sounded right.. Well, I'm too far gone to consider switching back..anyway, some of my favorite artists don't put their recordings out on LP..not to start the old CD/LP war..that's not it..I just don't like the way most are recorded, maybe they're not made for horn speakers! And there's just no volume control with CDs/efficient speakers. So to answer your question..I have no regrets buying the KHorns, but looking back I think I was just as happy with my previous set up, a Harmon Kardon 730, a turntable, and 4 Heresys!! But I'm not giving up on the holy grail yet!! Steve

Hardhead ok..I misunderstood the statement, misinterpeting the word "value"..sorry. Right now, there is a volume control built into the box, but of course, the way you describe it sounds a lot better i.e. no adjustments! So, excusing my ignorance, how does the input impedance translate into dbs? I'm good at math, but no electronics training here! Both amps are the same, the stereo and mono one, and the input impedance is 100 Kohms. What value resistor(s) would I used in a fixed configuration with no volume control? (that, if I may ask for free advice) Thanx Steve

I got a link to this site yesterday from kev313..sure looks promising. I emailed Vinnie, and he said he's backed up on orders..a few weeks waiting period. On a good note, there's a 30 day money back guarantee if it's not what you want. I considered getting on the list, but had to rethink it for now. Just got done rehabbing the house, and I don't know if I want to spend the money just yet.. But again, I am interested! So if any of you other members get one, or hear one..please post! Steve

Oldbuckster..yeh, that was my tapestry alright..gotta keep it though, probably makes things sound better! Hardhead, the drivers in My 83 Khorns and my 05 Belle are stock..I'll have to do some research to see if they're the same..but I'm guessing they're not. Again, I'm splitting hairs here, as I'm sure the sound isn't THAT far off from one speaker to the other..Also, Tom Mobley constructed the mixer box for me..I'll look at it, but have no doubt he used quality materials. Craig, thanx for the input..and yes, I do have Al's xovers..that was a good investment. Now if I could just hear a pair of your VRDs! Sometimes I wonder if having these ultra sensitive, hard to feed Khorns are worth it! Well..at least until I hear someone else's brand of speakers! Then it becomes clear to me why I bother.. Steve

well, I've always complained about the room..what with a sloping ceiling and all..but it's actually gotten better with room treatments. And I tend to think the difference in tones IS the different crossovers. I just haven't decided to spring for another Al K crossover..yet..as the Belle is so new. But, when hearing the difference between the two, I tend to lean towards Al's crossovers.. I did have the center -6db down at one meter away..guess I had the right idea. Again, I'm not saying it's BAD..I just am not sure I really needed the center..how far apart are your KHorns? Mine are 21 feet apart..thanx Steve

Hardhead true..I've measured it with a decibel meter using white noise, or test tones..problem is I don't know where I shoud be taking that measurement..at my listening position? A meter out from each speaker? Anyway, what I've found..is that when I do it by "ear" when it's lower, I don't notice it being there really, and when it's high enough I do notice it, it's detracting from the real stereo effect. I also wonder if the difference is the stock xover in the Belle, and Al K's in my Khorns. But to tinker is what I like to do..so..do you know where I take this -6db measurement from? Thanx.. Steve

Not that I don't care for it, OB, just saying that looking back, I don't feel the center channel really made that much difference! I could have saved my money and tried something else! As for the SET sound, no, so far I like it better than anything else I have experienced. I just wish I could have that mid/top end sound with a little more "fullness" on the bass. NOT subwoofer bass, I'm not looking for that. I guess the best way to describe it is the sound we used to get when we hit the loudness (contour) button! Or the way LPs sound "fuller" compared to their CD counterparts (again, my opinion). Part of this hobby is always looking for that "better" sound. I just don't want to shell out anymore cash without having heard it first! Steve

SET12 thanx for the link..I'll check it out..that's what so great about this forum..always learning! Regards Steve

Thanx for all the answers guys. I actually emailed the builder of the amp, and they advised me that the bass performance is set by the amps output impedence, not the power output. And Leo, thanx, I already have the amp(s) wired in 4 ohms. I shouldn't complain too loudly..on most recordings, the bass is acceptable..I guess the KHorns just show bad recordings well! And, in retrospect, after almost a year later, I don't think I would have done the center channel route again..it's not THAT much of a difference to my ears. But I have that brand new Belle, and I know I couldn't turn it for even close to what I paid for it! Steve

thanx..that is an idea I was kicking around..I was just wondering if I was gonna hurt the stereo amp to run one channel unloaded.. Steve

thanx..that is an idea I was kicking around..I was just wondering if was gonna hurt the stereo amp to run one channel unloaded.. Steve

Hi Jay sometimes I think I am chasing my tail here..like you, I usually have enough bass, I think sometimes the lack of it is attributed to poor recordings! I have changed the taps on Al's crossovers, but I keep going back to the "stock" settings as I feel they have the most balanced sound i.e. clarity with natural bass. I guess I'm looking for a "fuller" sound sometimes..like the old days when the loudness button was depressed! As for a sub, I have swapped a Bob Carver True Sub in and out of the system, and personally, I don't care for it in a two channel set up. My preference.. Steve

thanx Kev..I'll look into it..I appreciate all info! Steve

I hear ya..but again, I'm probably the only "audiophile" (or whatever label that is used these days) in this town..so there's nothing to compare them with locally. I'd love to hear Craig's VRDs..maybe I can find someone in Alaska with a set..didn't Mtnbkr get a pair from Craig? Steve

Appreciate that answer, but as I stated in another post, I can't afford to keep buying amps until I get it "right" i.e.better..Now, if I could hear someone elses, and like it, that would be another story..but for now I best keep what I have! Steve

I have 2 of these amps, one wired in mono (16 watts) driving my center Belle, the other wired in stereo (8 watts a side) driving my KHorns. I was thinking about rewiring the stereo amp to mono, thus having 16 watts a side for the KHorns, getting another amp later for the center channel, since it isn't as prominent as the KHorns anyway. Without all the SET jokes, do you think I would notice any difference on the bottom end doubling the wattage from 8 to 16 watts a side? I listen to most stuff in the 80-90db range. Or would there be no noticeable difference? Thanx for your input. Steve

Mark that is a generous offer! Hope Oldbuckster takes you up on it. Wish someone was close enough so I could check out some 2A3 amps! Of course, I wish the same about the VRDs! Kudos to you for being so neighborly to other forum members! Steve

and today's 50 is yesterday's 30..so I guess you have maybe another 30 years to retirement?! Congrats! I'm joining ya in October.. Regards Steve

and today's 50 is yesterday's 30..so I guess you have maybe another 30 years to retirement?! Congrats! I'm joing ya in October.. Regards Steve

expecting? or am I way off base?

I applaud all the different opinions out there, how else would we know what was available? I, for one, wish I could visit each and everyone of your abodes, and check out what you describe as audio nirvana. Seriously. I'm satisfied with my set up, but I know there's better stuff out there, and would be glad to plunk my hard earned cash down to buy something that would give me an audible, noticeable, better sound! Paul said no SET owners attend the Klipsch get together. I find that unfortunate, as I would love to attend! Not to flaunt my SET, as I know what it sounds like, but to better my understanding and appreciation of other amp topologies! And upgrade to something "better" if it suits my tastes! Not to make excuses, but given the logistics, I'm a little far away. (not to say I won't make it one day!) One reason I am staying where I am, as stated before, is throwing out a lot of cash for equipment lauded as the "best" and then being disappointed. My case was the new high dollar (to me, anyway, almost 5K) McIntosh tube C2200 preamp so highly acclaimed. I couldn't wait to get it! And, well..it just didn't work out for me. Neither did the Mac MC275..I still like my Assemblage SET a lot better..to others, Macs are the cream of the crop! So again, it's not if the equipment measures well, has great specs etc. It's what YOU hear. That's been repeated over and over again in this forum. This is a great place to learn things about audio equipment, especially from the more knowledgable members of the forum. That meaning specs, how- to posts, etc. As for the rest of us, non electronics wizards, but love great sound, opinions are appreciated as they open our eyes as to what's available out there. Oldbuckster, again, don't give up on different amps..sources, etc. I certainly haven't quit..yet. But, don't take a blind leap of faith either without hearing it first! If I get to make the rounds down south, I'll call upon my fellow Klipschters to hear their systems..after all, we're all looking for music heaven. I want to hear what you hear! As for you that have found it (and are satisfied) I tip my hat to you! Regards Steve