[Best 15" drivers for DBB]

I sent this message in a p.m. to a member previously because we were having a discussion but I thought it would be a good conversation topic for the entire group and hopefully I can get some Brains involved who are much smarter than me to offer their input.

 

I am going to pick up a set of DBBs this coming weekend. They don't have drivers so I need to find ones that work. Previous comments have been to use the Emminence Kappalites or the K33 Cornwall driver but I want to extend the bass and use this as a subwoofer to complement LaScala mains.  I based my model off a 6 cu ft volume and tuning of 34hz. If these values are not right please tell me.

 

I've looked at the Kappalite as well as others.  I'll list what I found.

 

Crites:  I looked at Crites Cornwall replacement woofers mainly as a price reference. I couldn't find the T/S parameters but I'll admit that I didn't look hard either.

 

Our CW1526C 15 inch Cast Frame Woofers.  Replacement for the Klipsch K-33E for Klipschorn, Belle Klipsch, and Cornwall.  Shipping is $25.00 by FedEx in the US. (Not for the LaScala).

Model CW1526C Pair:  $275.00.  

 

Our CW1526 15 inch Stamped Steel Frame Woofers.  Replacement for the Klipsch K-33E for  Klipschorn, Belle Klipsch, Cornwall and LaScala.  Shipping is $25.00 by UPS in the US.

Model CW1526 Pair:  $240.00

 

Our CW1526F has the same specs as our CW1526.  Difference is that the CW1526F has a thinner front gasket and a second gasket behind the frame.  This woofer works better for flush mounting in a motor board such as that on the Cornwall II.  It also works well for rear mounting for the Cornwall 1.  Shipping is $25.00 per pair in the US.

Model CW1526F Pair:  $260.00  

 

Based on the box volume of the Cornwall (6 cu ft) and a tuning frequency of 32hz-34hz I ran the following drivers with the results as shown:

 

Klipsch K33e (Emminence 15162) (cost ??) (300w RMS per cabinet)

SPL dB 96.6

F3 of 50hz with 34hz port tuning (not great - I can't see using the stock K33e for low frequencies)

 

Eminence Kappalite 3015LF ($199 each) (900w RMS per cabinet)

Sensitivity  96 dB

F3 of 52hz (not really that low - I couldn't see using this)

 

Emminence Lab15 ($285 each) (1200w RMS per cabinet)

Sensitivity   88.5 dB

F3 of 32hz (nice, but at that price it's almost $1200 for 4 drivers)

 

Dayton Audio DCS380-4 15" Classic Subwoofer 4 Ohm ($87 each) (500w RMS per cabinet)

Sensitivity   93.6 dB

For this I would have to lower the tuning frequency to 19hz by making the port opening smaller or adding to the length.

Final results of F3 at 30hz  

 

Goldwood GW-15PC-4 ($88 each) (550w RMS per cabinet)

Sensitivity   94.9 dB

F3 of 34hz with no adjustments to tuning frequency

 

Goldwood GW-15PC-8 ($89 each) (550w RMS per cabinet)

Sensitivity    92.3 dB

F3 of 35hz

 

Dayton Audio UM15-22 15" Ultimax DVC ($189 each) (1600w RMS per cabinet)

Sensitivity   86.5 dB

Would have to change the port tuning to 22hz by closing off some of the port opening or changing port length.

F3 of 24hz with adjusted port tuning

 

Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 Ohm ($155 each) (1000w RMS per cabinet)

Sensitivity  91.2 dB

Would have to change the port tuning to 22hz.

F3 of 24hz with adjusted port tuning

 

Dayton Audio RSS390HO-4 15" Reference HO Subwoofer 4 Ohm ($165 each) (1600w RMS per cabinet)

Sensitivity  92.8 dB

slightly adjust tuning frequency to 29hz

F3 of 28hz with adjusted port tuning

 

MCM Audio Select (55-2953)  ($32 each) (400w RMS per cabinet)

Sensitivity (1W/M): 98 dB (very nice)

F3 of 42hz at 34hz port tuning

 

 

With all of this data I think I can toss out the idea of using the stock K33 driver because it would have a low end F3 of barely 50hz.  I don't know how the Cornwall claims a low end of 34hz unless it's -10db at 34hz.

 

Based on the price vs performance I'm leaning toward the MCM 55-2953.  It only handles 400w RMS, but with the efficiency of 98db I don't think it will need very much power to reach high levels.  I can live with an F3 of 42hz at that price.  To get what I really want I would have to use the Dayton HF sub with a change in the port tuning to get a F3 of 24hz.  But $155 per driver vs $32 per driver is quite a big difference.  

 

Given a 3bd increase every time power doubles the output for the MCM driver would be:

 

1w = 101db (two drivers coupled together gives a 3db increase)

2w = 104db

4w = 107db

8w = 110db

16w = 113db

32w = 116db

64w = 119db

128w = 121db

256w = 124db

400w = 125db or 126db

 

That means by spending $130 I could get 125db levels......not bad.

 

 

What are your thoughts?

[How do you know if a speaker needs new caps?]

I have 3 of the industrial LaScalas for my theater and I haven't opened then up. The seller of the L/R told me the caps were changed in 2016 and the L/R use a Crites tweeter.

 

Patrick

[Manufacture date]

So that means they would have a B3 crossover, right?

[Manufacture date]

Based on serial number, when were these made? Pic attached. 

[How do you know if a speaker needs new caps?]

AL. Pics attached.

[How do you know if a speaker needs new caps?]

I have a pair of 85 LaScalas that I'm bringing to sell. It has the original crossover. Since the crossover is easy access without opening the cabinet this would be a good one for the re-cap demo / training.

 

What would I need to buy? I know Crites sells a kit but is that the best route vs finding caps that are the correct value from elsewhere? What value caps would I need to buy and what quantity?

 

Patrick

[How do you know if a speaker needs new caps?]

Yes I am going to the Pilgrimage. I have several speakers to sell there and I wanted to know if I needed to re-cap before selling if it would add value. Or alternately if NOT recapping would adversely affect the value.

 

I have a set of Cornwalls and LaScalas of my own that have original crossovers. Based on what has been said it seems like those need new caps regardless.

 

Thanks for the advice and info. The recap training session sounds like a great idea.

 

Patrick

[How do you know if a speaker needs new caps?]

I have several pairs of older Klipsch speakers as well as other brands.  Given the age of some, I would suspect that new caps are in order.  But how can you tell if they need to be replaced?  I listen to each set and they sound great.  Without having a new pair of a given speaker to A/B compare, I can't tell if what I'm hearing is how they are supposed to sound or if something is wrong.  Being in my mid-40s and working in pro sound for so many years have not been kind to my hearing in the upper frequencies.  I've EQ'd enough rooms and run test tones to know that my hearing tops out around 12k or 13k.  What exactly is the sound to listen for if caps are bad?  

 

Thanks,

 

Patrick

[Episode amps]

A pickup at Goodwill that isn't working......could be a million things that might have happened.  If you could spend $100 or less on repairs I'd do it.  Anything more and I don't think it would be worth it given that you don't know the history and something else might be going out on it soon.  These are good amps, but like anything - if they have been abused I wouldn't want to take the risk.

[Price for Quartets]

4 hours ago, teaman said:

Hey Patrick, once you figure out what you want for them are you open to shipping?....or pick up only?

 

 

Tim

Shipping would be tough.  These are heavy and would be hard to pack.  I'm going to bring them out to Hope to the Pilgrimage if you're going to be there.

 

Patrick

[Price for Quartets]

3 hours ago, ZEUS121996 said:

Did you repaint the backs on them? They look like they have a gloss finish you don't see on the sides

 

Mark

No - I think it's just bad lighting.

[Need help understanding if this could be used for home theater.]

PA subs are more for high output and to get decent response on the low end you would need a DSP with some EQ to boost the low end. I have some JBL cinema subs with dual 15s and the specs are similar. But they handle a massive amount of power. I have the low end boosted and smoothed out from 30hz - 50hz by boosting at 30-35 and cutting from 50-80. It doesn't handle 1600 watts now but I'm only pushing it with 600w and it sounds pretty good.

[Price for Quartets]

I noticed a couple of people mentioned something about less than good condition of these speakers.  I want to know what you're seeing that makes then less than top condition.  I want to get the most that I can so I'll do whatever I need to make sure they are in top shape.

 

I saw something on the front edge of the right speaker that looked like a little white spot on the corner. I'm not sure what it was but it wiped off with the wet rag easily. I'm probably should have wiped them down before I took the pictures but I literally just unplugged them and took the pictures as they were.

 

I got the other badge yesterday and I put it on. That was the only blemish with the speakers. The drivers are literally perfect. What would I need to do to make these a very good or excellent condition seeing as how I'm not sure what's wrong with him now that seems to be a detraction?

 

Thanks,

 

Patrick

[New Klipsch RF-82II floor standing speakers - $100 each]

Gone. What was it? If you see anything in the Dallas area send me a PM.

[Price for Quartets]

On 3/31/2017 at 1:23 PM, Olorin said:

It's a shame Quartets don't get more love, they're great speakers.  Just out of curiosity, why the move from Quartets to Cornwalls?

Why would someone drive a Ferrari when they had a Honda before? Nothing wrong with a Honda but the Ferrari is so much more fun.

 

Basically because the Cornwalls blow the doors off the Quartets. They are bigger and better in every phase of the sound.

[Speaker Enclosures for klf20 woofers (2-10") - Austin area pickup - free to good home]

Do you still have these?

[(SOLD) 1988 LaScala Birch Raw ($950)]

I'm very interested.

[Episode amps]

Yes. I love them. Made by Snap AV. Very underrated. Good value for the price. I sell Snap so if you're interested I buying new let me know.

[Help me understand refurbishing cabinets]

Keep sanding until all you can see is the "white". It is real wood....a veneer so it's fairly thin so you can sand through it if you're not careful.

[Where to find drivers for RF10]

Where can I get the 4.5" drivers that the RF10 uses? I found a pair that I can get at a really good price but 2 of the drivers in one cabinet are shot. They can't be reconed because the magnets actually broke loose. I want to find out how much the replacement drivers cost before I decide if I want to buy them.

[Price for Quartets]

11 hours ago, edzu1234 said:

I had a pair of MINT oak Quartets and sold them for $400.  I would start at $350 for yours (they look a little rough around the edges).

Thanks - I could strip them and re-finish but I don't think that would add significantly to the value.  I have ordered another badge to replace the one that is missing.  The components are fine and they sound good as new.

[Price for Quartets]

I have searched this forum, eBay, Facebook, Craigslist to get an idea of what Quartets should sell for and I can't find a good reference.  They sound great, no problems with them at all.  But I ran across an incredible deal on Cornwalls so I have to say bye-bye to the Quartets.  What is a good price range to ask for these?

[2017 Pilgrimage "For Sale" thread.]

I have several AV receivers that I'm bringing to sell at the Pilgrimage.  I need to clean them up, find a few knobs, make sure they are shined and polished, etc, but I wanted to post a list now so anyone interested could start thinking about it.  Pics below the list.

 

Kenwood KR-V5570 ($60)

·         Power output: 60 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo)

·         Surround output: 50W (front), 50W (center), 20W (rear)

·         Frequency response: 20Hz to 20kHz

·         Total harmonic distortion: 0.06%

·         Input sensitivity: 2.5mV (MM), 200mV (line)

·         Signal to noise ratio: 74dB (MM), 100dB (line)

·         Video Connections: composite

·         Dimensions: 440 x 143 x 340mm

·         Weight: 8.2kg

·         Year: 1995

 

Denon AVR-2106 ($80)

·         7 Channels equal power amplifier section

·         100 watts per channel (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, <.08%THD)

·         Analog Devices 24 bit, 192 kHz high resolution DACs on all eight channels

·         True 24 bit, 96 kHz Digital Interface Receiver

·         24 bit, 96 kHz A/D conversion on all Stereo analog inputs (Not EXT. Inputs)

·         Dolby Digital Surround EX, Pro Logic IIx decoding with Cinema and Music Modes

·         DTS Extended Surround Discrete 6.1 decoding

·         DTS Extended Surround Matrix 6.1 decoding

·         DTS Neo:6 Cinema & Music Surround decoding

·         DTS ES 96/24 5.1 decoding for DVD Video

·         Analog Devices HammerHead, 32 bit floating point DSP processor

·         7.1 channel Auto-Setup and Room EQ function with included DENON microphone DM-S205

·         Adjustable High and Low Pass Crossover (40/60/80/100/120/150/200/250Hz)

·         Front left and right channel bass and treble control

·         3 Assignable component video inputs (100MHz), with On-Screen Display

·         Video Conversion of Composite to S-Video and/or to Component, with on-screen display

·         5 sets composite and "S" video inputs

·         5.1 external wide bandwidth (100 kHz) analog inputs for multi-channel formats (such as DVD-Audio/SACD)

·         5/6/7 Channel Stereo

·         Digitally regulated volume control with .5dB increment adjustments and step range of -80 to +15

·         Personal Memory Plus

·         XM Satellite Radio Ready, Connect and Play Antenna sold seperately

·         5 assignable digital inputs (3 Optical, 2 Coaxial)

·         1 Optical digital output

·         11 analog inputs including built-in AM/FM tuner

·         True 2 Source, 2 Zone functionality with Discrete Power, Source Select and Volume control for each zone

·         (1)Multi-Zone fixed stereo pre-amp level audio output; or variable level (variable with SRB/Z2 jacks in 5.1 surround mode)

·         7.1 Preamp outputs

·         Power Amplifier Assign function, lets you assign 2 of the 7 amp channels to drive Zone 2 speakers directly or Bi-Amp Front Left and Right channels

·         On-Screen Display

·         Pre-programmed Glow Key remote

·         2 Assignable +12 volt, 250mA Trigger outputs

·         RS-232C port for third party control systems

·         Remote I/O ports

·         Dimensions: 17.1"w x 6.7"h x 16.4"d

 

 

Onkyo TX-SR307 ($100)

·            65 Watts per Channel at 8 Ohms, 1 kHz, 0.7%, 2 Channels Driven, FTC; 90 Watts per Channel at 6 Ohms, 1 kHz, 0.9%, 2 Channels Driven, FTC

·            3 HDMI™ Inputs and I Output for Video, HDMI Pass-Thru* (Version 1.3 Compatible with 1080p, Deep Color™, and x.v.Color™)

·            Audyssey 2EQ™ to Correct Room Acoustic Problems and to Calibrate Speakers

·            Music Optimizer for Compressed Digital Music Files

·            4 DSP Modes for Gaming: Rock, Sports, Action, and Role Playing Game (RPG)

 

Denon DRA-545R ($60)

·         Power output: 60 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo)

·         Frequency response: 20Hz to 50kHz

·         Total harmonic distortion: 0.05%

·         Input sensitivity: 2.5mV (MM), 150mV (line)

·         Signal to noise ratio: 78dB (MM), 95dB (line)

·         Output: 2V (Pre out)

·         Video Connections: composite

·         Dimensions: 434 x 130 x 312mm

·         Weight: 6.8kg

 

Concept 2.5 ($150)

<excerpt from a vintage receiver review website> The Concept line of stereo receivers were offered by Pacific Stereo as a house brand. The top of the line was the 16.5. The low end was the 2.5. Despite being an economy model it was actually a pretty good little receiver. It produces 35 watts per channel and has appealing looks.  Concept implemented an interesting design with their push button controls. There is a built in LED in each push button. The LED's make it easier to see which functions are active in low light or darkness. Designed by Richard Shramm of Parasound fame.

 

Denon AVR-3803 ($100)

·               7 Channels equal power amplifier section

·               110 watts per channel (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, <.05%THD)

·               150 watts per channel (6 ohms, 1 kHz, <.7%THD)

·               16 Burr-Brown PCM-1791 24 bit, 192 kHz high resolution DACs on all eight channels, in differential configuration

·               Real 24 bit, 96 kHz Digital Interface Receiver

·               24 bit, 192 kHz A/D conversion (Burr-Brown PCM-1804) on all analog inputs

·               ALPHA 24 Processing (AL24) in Stereo/Direct/Pure Direct modes (left/right channels)

·               Dolby Digital Surround EX, Pro Logic II decoding with Cinema and Music Modes

·               DTS Extended Surround Discrete 6.1 decoding

·               DTS Extended Surround Matrix 6.1 decoding

·               DTS Neo:6 Cinema & Music Surround decoding

·               DTS ES 96/24 5.1 decoding for DVD Video 

·               New DDSC-Digital featuring Analog Devices Melody 100 (HammerHead SHARC) 32 bit floating point DSP processor

·               Adjustable High and Low Pass Crossover (40/60/80/100/120Hz)

·               Front left and right bass and treble control

·               2 Assignable component video inputs (100MHz), with On-Screen Display

·               Video Conversion of Composite to S-Video and/or to Component, with on-screen display

·               7 sets composite and "S" video inputs

·               7.1 external wide bandwidth (100 kHz) input for future multi-channel formats (such as DVD-Audio)

·               5/7 Channel Stereo

·               Digitally regulated volume control with .5dB increment adjustments and step range of -80 to +15

·               Audio Delay adjustment to match audio signals with video signals(0-200ms)

·               Personal Memory Plus

·               7 assignable digital inputs (5 Optical, 2 Coaxial)

·               2 Optical digital outputs

·               9 analog inputs including built-in AM/FM tuner

·               Multi-Zone 1 stereo pre-amp level audio outputs, fixed or variable level

·               Multi-Zone 1 Composite Video output

·               Power Amplifier Assign function, lets you assign 2 of the 7 amp channels to drive second zone speakers directly

·               LCD dot-matrix programmable/learning remote full backlighting

·               Serial Port for Third Party RS-232 Control Systems

 

Marantz SR7200 ($125)

·         110 watts x 7 channels all discrete amplifier stage,

·         current feedback amplification,

·         HDMI v1.3a repeating/switching:

·         4-In/2-Out, Dolby® TrueHD, Dolby® Digital Plus, dts-HD™ Master Audio, Deep Color, xvYCC and SA-CD support by HDMI,

·         up-conversion (w/TBC) to HDMI with 480i/480p converter,

·         dual component outputs,

·         M-DAX (Marantz Dynamic Audio eXpander) for compressed audio,

·         Audyssey MultEQ,

·         Direct-Set volume,

·         tuner preset and XM preset commands,

·         RS-232C control and IR flasher input,

·         x2 12V DC trigger output,

·         2nd zone audio

 

Realistic SA-100B ($20)

10wpc – not much info.  Early 70s initial release

 

Sony STR-DH520  ($100)

·         TOTAL 945W (135W/ch x 7 @8ohm, 1kHz, THD 0.05%)

·         6 HD Inputs (4 HDMI, 2 Component)

·         3D pass-through

·         HD Digital Cinema Sound (HD DCS)

·         Dolby TrueHD, Pro logic IIz and dts HD Enhanced Audio Codecs

·         7.1-channel AV receiver with 100W per channel

·         6 HD Inputs (4 HDMI, 2 component)

·         3D pass-through capability

·         HD Digital Cinema Sound (HD DCS)

·         Dolby TrueHD, Pro logic IIz and dts HD enhanced audio codecs

 

Pioneer Elite VSX-82TSX ($150)

·         Power output: 130 watts per channel into 8Ω (stereo)

·         Surround output: 130W (front), 130W (center), 130W (rear)

·         Frequency response: 5Hz to 100kHz

·         Built-in Decoders:  DTS, DTS 96/24, DTS Neo:6, DTS-ES Discrete 6.1, Dolby Digital Surround EX, Dolby Pro Logic IIx, THX Select 2

·         Receiver Tuner Bands:  AM/FM

·         Total harmonic distortion: 0.09%

·         Input sensitivity: 335mV (line)

·         Signal to noise ratio: 103dB (line)

·         Output: 335mV (line)

·         Digital inputs: coaxial, optical

·         Video Connections: HDMI, component, composite, SVHS

·         Dimensions: 420 x 187 x 462mm

 

 

 

[Nice La Scalas -- DFW]

On 3/13/2017 at 0:47 PM, Maximus89 said:

I'll let you know Pat, I have seen your pair on here and on craigslist.  Walnut?  If so, that's my fave

Yes - that's correct.  Let me know if you're able to come by and hear them.

[Nice La Scalas -- DFW]

On 3/5/2017 at 4:08 PM, Maximus89 said:

 

Thanks for the heads up.  Don't have the funds for La Scalas at this very moment, though.  Maybe by next month and I'm also going to be up in Austin next month, so I'll have a decent drive to San Antonio or Dallas to find some LS if there are none in Austin at that time.  I'm going to borrow my Dad's van just in case I find a pair so that I have the room.

Let me know if you're interested in the ones I have.