TubeHiFiNut

Really? This is your "gotcha"? We are discussing the efficacy of ABX/DBT testing in audio. A DBT for pharmaceuticals is much different than a DBT for audio. You state your opinion as fact. I don't care how many times you state it, it's still your opinion. You have your opinion on this matter and I have mine. It's OK if we don't agree. The trick is to do so with mutual respect. I can just as easily say "no, it's you who are wrong". Where does that get us? YMMV.....

This was way back when the whole ABX/DBT assertions were first being put out and many of the proponents asserted that all amps that measure within certain parameters did indeed "sound the same".

Phase Linear 4000 plus 400 on La Scalas. Was unbelievably unpleasant and, since we were being told even way back then that all modern transistor amps sounded the same, caused me to blame the La Scalas - until I listened to a pair on a beautiful SET amp. Bought the La Scalas on the spot. Just my opinion. That detailed enough for you?

The fervor with which DBT/ABX proponents proselytize can easily be described as an almost religious fervor. THAT IS MY OPINION! Or is anyone who disagrees with you no longer entitled to an opinion? DBT/ABX is far from settled science so you are also doing nothing more than stating your OPINION. And you are very welcome to that opinion. But you are 100% NOT WELCOME to dismiss my opinion as "wrong" when your only retort is to restate your own opinion. And that, kind sir, is my opinion.

Please see my response to @Don Richard above. Claude, I respect your knowledge and contributions to the discourse on this site. Please accept that I am not blinded by topology nor brand loyalty nor fancy meters, etc. The ONLY thing I care about is how the DUT sounds. Does it better connect me emotionally with the music I love. And it only has to please ME. I really don't care if others choose differently. Of note: Recent additions to the amplifier stable were the very inexpensive Topping TP60 and Nobsound TPA3250 with Astron LS10A 28v Linear PS - both ~$200 and the slightly more expensive (~$900) KingKo KA-101 PP EL84 . All sound good, in different ways. All have their place with certain speakers in residence. All of my systems are built synergistically to best connect me to the music. Hoping that this helps us come to the state that, where we may not agree on this point, we can agree to disagree. Just my opinion.

Your zeal, certainly supports my assertion. Let me make myself perfectly clear: I do not care what technology an amp uses, only how it sounds. I determine how an amplifier sounds by listening to that amp in my own rooms and in my systems. There are some amps that sound so out of place that the audition can be mercifully short. Subtle differences can take longer to assess - and are any differences positive or negative. When I find an amplifier that connects me to the music I love and I listen to more music, it stays. This is my primary assessment criteria. And, from 47 years of experience, this observational method best suits my needs. If you choose a different path, that's great and I sincerely wish you the best. We hear, respond to that aural stimulus and interpret that stimulus into an emotional response differently. Just please stop telling those of us who have found the ABX/DBT process to be of limited, if any, benefit to us and use a different method (one that works for us) that we are WRONG. Just my OPINION.

It would appear that interest was rekindled to some degree. For me, as long as folks are very clear when posting opinion as opinion, I don't care.

I am familiar with Brilliant Corners. Excellent album. Monk was a very special Jazz pianist and composer.

I agree that Mono and Stereo are in the same category and are differentiated from Home Theater and multi-channel audio. Any advice offered would need to address the specific requirements of that catagory.

No disagreement, just preference. Some folks prefer home theater and multi-channel audio. I think that's wonderful. Stereo and even Mono (especially on a true Mono system) are what I prefer. There's room for everyone in our hobby.

Agree with @Shakeydeal on this point. I love Jazz and Classical recorded in the 1950s and 1960s - Stereo and Mono. In addition to the stereo systems, I'm in the process of assembling a nice mono system for the large number of mono records in the collection.

A very reasoned response. Thank you, Claude. My user ID notwithstanding, I use what I perceive to be the "right tool for the job" whether Solid or Vaccum State. Two examples are the Topping TP60 and the TPA3250 with Astron 28V Linear PS. Both are inexpensive (~$200) Class D Solid State amps that sound great on the right speakers. I learned what these amps can do by listening to them on a variety of speakers over time. And, yes, they do sound different. I still don't buy the efficacy of DBT/ABX for audio. Test Anxiety is very real and, IMO, renders any results as suspect. Our hobby is based on the source and the gear combining to elicit an emotional response in the listener. In my opinion, the DBT/ABX process removes the primary thing I seek (the emotional response) and is the antithesis of why I love audio. I fully understand that this is one of those subjects on which reasonable folks will simply have to agree to disagree. Just my opinion.

There have been so many "be all, end all" tests that were supposed to tell us how a component sounds and, as you point out, none of them have panned out. In my opinion it takes time to familiarize the listener with the subtle pros and cons of a particular component. The DBT/ABX protocol is short term and focuses on "different" rather than quality. My criteria for selecting components is simple: the components that facilitate my emotional connection with the music I love are the components I keep and use. Might be tubes, might be solid state. I try to use the right tool for the job. Others may have different criteria - each to their own. Experience is gained by listening to lots of gear over time. That is what I suggest to audio newbies. Just my opinion.

What seems far fetched to me is your seemingly blind and unquestioning belief in the DBT/ABX religion. If that works for you, great. Please, however, stop trying to impose your orthodoxy on everyone - especially the new audio hobbyist who needs to listen to a wide variety of gear, gain experience and learn to trust their own ears.

You seem to have a blind and unquestioning belief in the DBT/ABX religion. That's great for you. Please, however, stop trying to impose your orthodoxy on everyone - especially the new audio hobbyist who needs to listen to a wide variety of gear, gain experience and learn to trust their own ears.

In the past, I've used Dynaco ST35 and Heath UA2 to drive the ESL57. This new one should also work very well.

Mine are 2A3, 300B and 845 SET and EL84 SEP. Just picked up a new EL84 PP amp that is impressing me. Wondering how it might sound on the Quad ESL57. 🤔

I don't need gobs of watts for my Belles, just the right kind (SE) of watts.

Thank you, @robert_kc , for this insightful and well reasoned post. I agree with your comments.

It's called Test Anxiety. From Wikipedia: "Test anxiety is a combination of physiological over-arousal, tension and somatic symptoms, along with worry, dread, fear of failure, and catastrophizing, that occur before or during test situations. It is a physiological condition in which people experience extreme stress, anxiety, and discomfort during and/or before taking a test." Whether you are taking a test in school, your driver's test at the DMV or a DBT/ABX test at your audio club, many folks are not at their best. I wonder how the physiological changes impact hearing? We listen to music to relax. Could the simple matter of being "under test" introduce stress, even subconsciously, and compromise the aural acuity of some of the folks taking the test? Just some food for thought.

Flag! Stating opinion as fact. 15 yards. Replay the down. Oops....watching the college bowl games and got carried away.

This is, without a doubt, the best advice we can give to every audio hobbyist - newbie or "old hand".

I use sand amps if the application (speaker) is not compatible with my SE or low power (<40 watts) PP tube amps. When I get my triode modified Audio Research D160 recapped, I'll have a bruiser tube amp (~80 wpc) to add back into the mix. The last Levinson powered system I liked was a HQD powered by four Levinson ML2 (pure Class A) per side. Instead of the Levinson preamp, this one used an Audio Research SP3A-1. Truly awesome system! So, I can't tell you with 100% certainty if it was the speakers, electronics, wire or some combination that rendered the presentation on the Wilson based system as rather sterile, cold and not at all involving. For that kind of money, I should have to change underwear after every listening session. Just my opinion.

If I remember, you use Class D amps? Ended up using a TPA3250 with an Astron 28v linear power supply to drive some very difficult B&W CDM1. The little TPA3250 acquitted itself admirably.

Well said @Westcoastdrums