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DaMuffinMan

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    Differences between S.E.T & Push Pull Tube Amps?

    in Talkin' Tubes

    Posted

     Here are some other questions. Your thoughts are valued and appreciated.

     

    What are your thoughts on the following statements?

    " I would never recommend a 6SN7 as driver for a 300B".

     

     

    and this one,"  I would not recommend a two stage approach".  

     

    "Therefore, for me a three stage approach is best; it allows you the freedom of choice in terms of tubes and topographies. And the use of a passive volume control like a TVC or autoformer which hands down beats all active preamps, period. "

     

    Should these be my "goals" for what i want to accomplish?

    1.Separate PS for driver
    2.Fixed bias
    3.AC heating
    4.Valve rectification
    5.Useful to get power tx with heater windings and fixed bias windings.

    And last but not least what does "nfb " stand for?

     

    THANKS

    Differences between S.E.T & Push Pull Tube Amps?

    in Talkin' Tubes

    Posted

    Thanks for the reply Maynard, and I will heed yours and everyone else s warning regarding voltage. I only want to build one of these so I want to do it right. I realize now with what I want to accomplish with this project that it is going to be closer to $1,000.00 by the time I get done, but that is OK.

     

    Having said what you said regarding " 300b amp you linked has deficiencies" Is there another DIY project that can do the following. And not have any of the above mentioned concerns?

     

    > 8 Watts

    < $1,000.00

    S.E.T.

    Integrated

    Tone / Bass Control

      2 Inputs

     

    Is the 300B Tube the tube I should be looking at for what I want to accomplish?

     

    Will these Output transformers perform for what I need?

    Magnequest RH-80

    Hammond 1640SEA

    Edcor CXSE25-5K

    one electron UBT-2

    Electra Print (custom ordered very $$)

    And I was also looking at this one Transcendar

     

    How are Tone and Bass controlled in a tube amp?

     

    Is it possible to integrate a phono pre-amp into a tube amp? Meaning not a separate pre-amp but part of the S.E.T. amp.

     

     

     

    Thanks again everyone!

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Differences between S.E.T & Push Pull Tube Amps?

    in Talkin' Tubes

    Posted

    Greetings, I have been doing a lot of researching and reading. and have a few questions if you Gentleman might help me.

     

    1. If I am understanding things so far, the Audio Output Transformer, Power Transformer and the Power Tube selection are the most critical components of a S.E.T. tube amp and will mainly determine the wattage and "character" of the amp?

     

    2. What is the limiting factor or choices that determine if it is a 2 watt amp or a 10 watt amp, the size of the Power Transformer and type of Power Tube selected?

     

     

    I have pretty much settled on a S.E.T. integrated amp of at least 8 watts something along the lines of this 300B Single-Ended (SE) Tube Amplifier Schematic (6SN7 input)

    and would like to get some input on improving it as this design is from 1993.

     

     

    and last but not least what does " nfb " stand for?

     

    Thanks And Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah and anything else you might Celebrate at this wonderful time of year.

    1st time Build

    in Talkin' Tubes

    Posted

    On 11/21/2016 at 7:23 PM, wdecho said:

    My 300B is based on the schematic you are looking at. I spent almost $1000. building mine and it is not the easiest one to build  to be quite being it is a DHT tube. I would suggest George Anderson's SSE amp. It uses a circuit board and is well documented for about the money you are wanting to spend. I built mine just using the schematic and did not purchase the board. I helped another member build using the board and he is very satisfied with his results. 

     

    http://tubelab.com/designs/tubelab-sse/ 

     

    You could add extra inputs easily but I would suggest just 2 inputs and a DPDT toggle switch to simplify the build. A selector switch can be a pain to wire up if you have never done it before. 

    Do you have a build of this online?

    1st time Build

    in Talkin' Tubes

    Posted

    On 11/21/2016 at 7:23 PM, wdecho said:

    My 300B is based on the schematic you are looking at. I spent almost $1000. building mine and it is not the easiest one to build  to be quite being it is a DHT tube. I would suggest George Anderson's SSE amp. It uses a circuit board and is well documented for about the money you are wanting to spend. I built mine just using the schematic and did not purchase the board. I helped another member build using the board and he is very satisfied with his results. 

    Wdecho what 300B tube are you using in this setup?

    How many watts is you amp pushing out?

    Differences between S.E.T & Push Pull Tube Amps?

    in Talkin' Tubes

    Posted

    24 minutes ago, mike stehr said:

    Mono amps will be a better idea sonically, (no crosstalk interference from a left and right side in a chassis) but will cost more money in materials. Examples: You'll need two power transformers instead of one. You'll need two chassis'...etc...Can't you use 1 Power Transformer?

     

    Here, check out this website...http://tdsl.duncanamps.com/.  Thanks!

     

    A directly heated triode is heated with a filament which serves as a cathode as well. A IDHT  (What is an IDHT) has a wire, (sort of like a filament, but they call it a heater wire/wires now) which is inside a metal tube. Made of nickel or whatever and called a cathode.

    As the heater wire (actually two wires) and cathode tube warm up, the cathode tube is coated with a sort of aluminum oxide. As the tube turns orange hot, the oxide heats/reacts and the electrons are boiled off the cathode tube in a evaporation type of process.

    This cathode also serves as an element in indirectly heated tubes.  Thats what I learned by watching this video RCA Tubes

     

    I'm not special in tube theory...so there ya go...

    It's nice to know how to read a schematic. Search online for schematic symbols of various types of vacuum tubes. Will do!

     

    The best way to learn this sort of stuff, is to befriend a local person (do we have a directory or anything on this forum, where people are located) who happens to be into audio. Like a retired electrical engineer who craves audio, or old radio/television repair guy like Maynard...or a retired audio engineer if you can get lucky enough. Most will probably appreciate the company, and you'll will learn more things more quickly with a hands on approach.

    Having a guy with knowledge helping you out with a tube amp project, is really valuable. Especially if one wants to scratch build a first tube amplifier point to point without any sort of problems...murphy's law will get ya...

     

    Unless it's a tube amp kit...but that's like building a plastic model car. Place part here, solder...place wire here...there just isn't much to learn from it. Exactly my thoughts!

     

    Mike

     

     

     

    old Lascala

    in Technical/Restorations

    Posted

    7 minutes ago, Sjuris said:

    Hi .

    Thanks for the reply, there is no sheet on the back, just a wooden plate...

     

    best regards

    Sjur

    Go to the link in the above post and it will tell you how to decipher the numbers on your speakers.

    Differences between S.E.T & Push Pull Tube Amps?

    in Talkin' Tubes

    Posted

    1 hour ago, wdecho said:

    To answer you question about the Poddwatt, yes. Mono's are considered better for soundstage whether tube or SS. I would highly recommend the Poddwatt kit for a successful build unless you are confident on building from a schematic and sourcing the parts yourself for your build. With the complete kit you would only need to know how to solder and follow instructions explicitly. You will be rewarded with an excellent all around tube amp. The Poddwatt is a PP but operated in Class A whereas most PP are not. Building on a board is much easier than point to point build for a newbie. I much prefer point to point when it comes to a tube build but this is after a few SS builds using boards first. 

    Thanks for the response. So Monos are the way to go, do you have to house them separately?. Can you incorporate them into the same base (case)?

     

    And am I correct that a DHT is a direct heated triode? What is an IDHT ?

     

    The Poddwatt looks like a good place to start (is there a schematic anywhere) and then modify it to my liking.

     

    I don't like the boards, I would most likely go point to point.

    Differences between S.E.T & Push Pull Tube Amps?

    in Talkin' Tubes

    Posted

    Quick question on Monoblocks, What are the benefits of using and not using them?

     

    If I remember correctly wdecho you opted to use only one transformer in your build of the Poddwatts? Did you accomplish what you set out to do with this change?

     

    Has anyone else done this with success.

     

     

    Oh an a note to everyone, I'm not looking to spend 3-5 k on an amp. :)

     

    Probably between $500.00 to $700.00 for the parts and build it myself.

     

     

    Cornwalls with tubes

    in 2-Channel Home Audio

    Posted

    23 hours ago, jkull said:

    Getting the thread back on topic...

    I was going to pickup a pair 3 hours north in NY but happened to come across a pair only a little over an hour away that are in excellent shape. Cornwall 1's. Will be picking these up tomorrow. So happens to be driving his with a Line Magnetic 845 amp as well!

     

    a photo of them..

     

     

    IMG_8613.PNG

    Those look nice, can you post a picture of the back showing the serial numbers etc. They look almost like my pair.

    Differences between S.E.T & Push Pull Tube Amps?

    in Talkin' Tubes

    Posted

    1 hour ago, avguytx said:

    What about just buying either/or/both pre-made and see what you like for your listening purposes.  Then, if you're still gung-ho on building one, you can sell the others off and build something even better.  That takes all the fun out of it.

     

    Trying to decide which version of cheese dip you like best based on everyone else's opinions before you've even tasted it with your own chips is a little tough. I make my own Queso w beef cheese dip! I plan on listening to other units once I find some in my area.

     

    Differences between S.E.T & Push Pull Tube Amps?

    in Talkin' Tubes

    Posted

    3 hours ago, TubeHiFiNut said:

    Thank you. :)

     

    What genre(s) of music do you prefer and how loud do you listen?

     

    I listen to Pink Floyd, Robin Trower, Black Sabbath, and Classical, orchestra etc. I have an SS amp in  my signature that I Haven.t turned past 6 yet. Very Loud.

     

    I want this tube amp build to be able to give me some accurate music, and be able to feel it also.

    Differences between S.E.T & Push Pull Tube Amps?

    in Talkin' Tubes

    Posted

    4 hours ago, tube fanatic said:

    The big question is whether you want to do a total diy project, or build from a kit?  I want to do a total DIY project where I research and source the parts on my own. Part of the reason for asking all of these questions.

     

    Without prior experience, it would be best to go with a nice, simple, single ended project .....I am only going to build one for now, so I want to build it right, I will be taking my time and researching.

     

    using an IDHT (DHTs are more difficult to deal with).  I looked and can't find/figure what IDHT & DHT stand for. Can you explain to me please?

     

    And, even that type of amp will expose you to voltages which can kill you.  So if I am going to die (which I don't plan on any time soon,) I'm going to build the kind of amp I want.

     

    Do you have experience working with such voltages?  No, but I will search out someone in my area that I can learn from. Is there a locator place on here for people that live in your area?

     

    As to some of the concerns you posted above: Not sure what you are saying?

     

     

     

     

    Differences between S.E.T & Push Pull Tube Amps?

    in Talkin' Tubes

    Posted

    6 hours ago, wdecho said:

    I have one PP tube amp that sounds more like a SET than some of my SET's, that is pentodes ran in triode mode. My PP has the some of the traits of a SET but also has traits of SS amp such as quickness and better bass. My 2 DHT amps have a sound and soundstage like none of my other amps at the sacrifice of the quick bass of my PP. It does come down to personal preference. I can enjoy all my better amps and all sound different in subtle ways. 

    "I have one PP tube amp that sounds more like a SET than some of my SET's," .......What amp is this one?

    My 2 DHT amps have a sound and soundstage like none of my other amps" What are these 2 amps?

    at the sacrifice of the quick bass of my PP.   Not sure what you mean by this, please explain.

     

     

    Differences between S.E.T & Push Pull Tube Amps?

    in Talkin' Tubes

    Posted

    26 minutes ago, Schu said:

    What's more important to you... SIngle Ended.

    Well I kind of want the best of both. I like the thought of the sound of what a SET does. And I like the higher wattage of a PP. 

    What would an amp that would be capable of this be like? Maybe like this?  "If we apply SET design concepts to PP, using engineering practices aimed at achieving the best sound rather than the best specs on paper, the results can be astonishingly good". Are such amps available?  

     

    " A PP amplifier using low Rp triode power tubes such as the 2A3 or 300B can get by with little or no NFB. For one, the triodes are an advantage in themselves, in both linearity and output impedance. Two, the front end voltage amplifer and phase inverter stages can be designed with much lower gain, if no NFB is present to reduce the available gain. Lower gain means lower distortion and lower output Z, so NFB is not necessary to attain these desirable properties. You end up with a much more linear amplifier, that has a simpler circuit with lower parts count and therefore less signal deterioration, and more air, breath, and vibrancy. See how much better everything gets when you set out to design it right from the beginning, instead of trying to fix it with NFB"?

    Differences between S.E.T & Push Pull Tube Amps?

    in Talkin' Tubes

    Posted

    So I am trying to decide whether to build a PP or SET Tube amp. I found the following information and wanted to get some feedback from the experienced here. What are your experiences? Are the following statements true?

     

     

    ADVANTAGES OF SE OPERATION .

    Less signal deterioration because of fewer signal path components

    Better detail and coherency, especially at low volumes .

    More open and airy sound

     

    DISADVANTAGES OF SE OPERATION

    Poor efficiency, with low power and high heat production

    Almost no rejection of power supply hum and noise, which necessitates more power supply filtering

    No cancellation of second order harmonic distortion (some do not consider this a disadvantage)

    (Usually) shorter power tube life

    Has speaker compatibility issues, is less tolerant of wide impedance curves and complex crossover networks

    Poor damping factor

     

    ADVANTAGES OF PP OPERATION

    More power (Usually) more authoritative and powerful sounding

    Better bass performance

    Fewer speaker compatibility issues

    Lower distortion

    DISADVANTAGES OF PP OPERATION

    Homogenized, uninteresting sound

    More signal deterioration due to greater signal path complexity

    More power supply intermodulations between amplifier stages, and other power supply anomalies

    Poor low level detail and dynamics

     

     

     

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