[RF-7 II vs RP-280F vs RF-7 III Appearance Comparison]

12 hours ago, Scrappydue said:

"Three vertical LCR will trump ANY horizontal center in seamless proper soundstage for theater use." 

 

Answer:   You made a wrong observation.  Unless the LCR configuration is IDENTICAL in EVERY respect, the soundstage will not be so seamless as a sound source pans across the screen.  In Youthman's case with the 3 identical La Scala placed identically (i.e. all three speakers in upright position), I can wholeheartedly agree that any panning of sound source (example:  bullet flying across the screen) will be nearly seamless.   This won't necessarily be the case with L/R tower speakers standing up and an identical tower speaker lying sideways. 

 

Specifically in the case of the RF-7II, laying it horizontally will guarantee a sound field that will lack left/right symmetry because the tweeter horn is very directional.  Unlike a dedicated center channel such as the RC-64 II which has perfect left/right symmetry, the RF-7 II does not have any left/right symmetry when laid sideways.  Using an RF-7II as a center channel in the horizontal position will result in one side of the room having exaggerated high frequency sounds coming from the tweeter horn, while the other side will have diminished high frequency sounds from the same tweeter horn.  This will defeat any "seamless transition" benefit you touted.  Now, if you would set up an LCR using three RF-7 II all placed in the upright position, then I would agree that it would produce a nearly seamless sound field.

 

"I’m not sure how anyone can make so many assumptions about a speaker that they haven’t even taken out of the box? Lol." 

 

Answer:  Hey, I wasn't the only one making assumptions.  Youthman made some assumptions too, as did you, the only difference being that I openly highlighted instances where "I conjecture" or "I think" as appropriate.

 

I am in no hurry to open the box of my RC-64 II because I am quite happy with current setup of RP-280F L/R and RP-450C in my theater room.  The sound is nice and the sound stage is symmetric and depth/height correct.

 

[RF-7 II vs RP-280F vs RF-7 III Appearance Comparison]

On 12/20/2017 at 5:29 PM, MetropolisLakeOutfitters said:

I had a custom RF-7II behind my screen, it was basically RF-7II components but in a slimmer sealed box.  Most things were about the same except for the bass.  I can't say there was any excessive 3' taller than it should be voices coming from the center channel, that's just wild speculation, I can't buy into that.  

With all due respect, you haven't got a genuine RF-7II in your case.  Your experience with your modified version may not show the higher sound stage that a true RF-7 II shows.

[RF-7 II vs RP-280F vs RF-7 III Appearance Comparison]

10 minutes ago, wstrickland1 said:

What happens if the people in the movie are standing and your center is low? Will it sound like they are sitting? We might be on to something here. If your CC is low, only watch movies where the actors talk sitting down and vice versa.

Haven't seen that problem with my RP 280 + RC450c setup.  It sounds accurate height wise.

[RF-7 II vs RP-280F vs RF-7 III Appearance Comparison]

7 hours ago, Youthman said:

The key words are in bold. 

 

I'm not sure you will find a lot of support for your theory but as they say.... YMMV.

 

@Scrappydue and @MetropolisLakeOutfitters have owned / heard various LCR setups including RF-7 II.  Maybe they can share their experience.

 

One thing I do want to mention is that the RF-7 II creates a very wide and HIGH soundstage.  I recall Youthman you made this observation in one of your videos.  I have also observed this same phenomenon.  A wide soundstage is welcomed, but the extra height in the perceived soundstage, while not a problem when applied to music listening, will distort the accuracy of the soundstage in a home theater application.  Let's say in the movie the actors are talking while in a sitting position.  Ideally the viewer listening to the dialogue while sitting down should perceive the sound as coming from ear level, but the RF-7 II will make it sound like the dialogue is coming from two to three feet higher than ear level.  This is another reason why I think (there goes that word again! ) using the RC-64 II will minimize this problem.

[RF-7 II vs RP-280F vs RF-7 III Appearance Comparison]

3 hours ago, MetropolisLakeOutfitters said:

For sitting off-axis and typical panning effects, you're just not going to beat three identical LCR's though, it's just not the same, at all.  

Agreed, that's why some experts advise placing the center channel vertically rather than horizontally to minimize the effects of lobing.

[RF-7 II vs RP-280F vs RF-7 III Appearance Comparison]

53 minutes ago, Youthman said:

I don't want to make an assumption but I'm guessing you have never heard three identical speakers up front.  The absolute best front sound stage is three identical speakers.

 

This is correct.

 

With all due respect, I would have to disagree.  The RF-7 II is a much better speaker than the RC-64 II (I own both). 

 

I do own an RC-64II that I bought it along with my RF-7 II speakers, but I decided to use my RF-7 II in 2-channel music only rather than for my home theater, so the RC-64II is still boxed up.  For my home theater, I am happy with the RP-280F L/R + RP-450C center channel so far.

 

53 minutes ago, Youthman said:

I thought this too but there is nothing special about a "center" channel speaker other than the fact that it's horizontal which is much easier to accomodate in most people's setups than a floor standing speaker.

 

Having three identical speakers up front provides an ABSOLUTE SEAMLESS transition when sound pans from one speaker to another.  Why wouldn't you want the best setup, especially if you have an AT Screen they will be behind. 

 

I think if you ask the Klipsch designers they will probably agree with my conjecture that the RC-64 is optimized for speech while the main RF-7 II/III is probably not.

 

However, I generally agree with your statements in most cases, EXCEPT that the discussion at hand is in reference to the RF-7 II setup.  My personal experience with the RF-7II is that it sounds lacking in the mid-range, including the human voice range.  That's why I think the RC-64 II will be a better option in a home theater application since it's presumably optimized for speech.

 

By the way, I also have a pair of 1970-era La Scala.  I may move the La Scala into my theater room because I like the rich sound, especially in the mid range. 

 

It's not entirely correct to project your positive experience with a three-speaker La Scala setup onto the RF line to conclude the same positive result would be produced with the RF-7 II.  The La Scala and the RF-7 II have different frequency response characteristics relative to all-important vocal mid-range frequencies.  The La Scala sounds very rich and mellow in the midrange but the RF-7 II does not (at least not without some serious equalization).

 

 

[RF-7 II vs RP-280F vs RF-7 III Appearance Comparison]

6 hours ago, GBShade684 said:

My plan is 100% to go behind screen, but I've never really seen or been exposed to a 3 tower system.

 

Pros / cons?  I think the cost will be pretty close to the same if I go 2 RF7III and a RC64III vs. 3 RF7III.

 

I think you'd have better results with the 2 RF7II + RC64II configuration rather than 3 RF7III or 3 RF7II.  The RC64II (or RC64III) is a 2.5 way speaker and will give fuller, more mellow sounds, and will more faithfully replicate human voices than the 2-way RF7 can.  The center channel is where most speech sounds are played and the RC64 is probably optimized for human speech.  Why go against the intended design of the RF line by substituting a main speaker in the center channel in home theater applications when there is a center channel designed specifically for that purpose?

[RF-7 II vs RP-280F vs RF-7 III Appearance Comparison]

3 hours ago, Youthman said:

Not necessarily true.  As of 11/15/17, Klipsch had not sent any RF-7 III out for review. 

Youthman:

 

I was actually referring to customer reviews rather than professional reviews.  I couldn't find any review of the RF-7 III by actual customers on any of the authorized dealers and traditional outlets such as Amazon, Crutchfield, eBay, etc.  The only customer review, only one so far, is on the Klipsch site.

[RF-7 II vs RP-280F vs RF-7 III Appearance Comparison]

The RF-7 III must be be selling VERY slowly.  It's been almost a month or two since the III went on sale and there has been only one review of it so far. 

 

There are two plausible explanations for the slow sale.  One is that most current potential buyers of the III already pulled the trigger on the II because of the heavy discounts on the II in the past six months.  I am one of these people.  It will take some time for another wave of potential buyers to build up again.

 

The second plausible explanation is that the RF-7 III is much less visually appealing than the RF-7 II.  The RF-7 III looks like a beefed up version of the RP-280F but selling at 3x to 4x the price.  The styling of the RF-7 III doesn't give an aura of fine furniture the RF-7 II does.  The cherry stain on the RF-7 II is FAR PRETTIER than on the RF-7III.  In my opinion the RF-7 III looks really cheap compared to the RF-7 II.  If Klipsch would incorporate the improvements found on the RF-7 III into the body and styling of the RF-7 II they'd have a real winner.

[how to get rid of muddy bass on La Scala]

I will tackle the woofer chamber clean out project next week to see what it can do and also to examine the identify of the 15" woofers to see if they are original.  

 

For what it's worth, when I knocked on the lower exterior side walls with my knuckles, the tone of the echo matches the muddy hollow resonant sounds I referred to earlier. This is why I believe it's a resonance issue, not that other issues may not also be present, such as debris buildup.  Also when I played bassy music, it's the lower exterior side walls and the lower back wall that have the most vibrations.  This again points to resonance problem.  I will also try the internal bracing method DizRotuz showed in the pictures.

 

I am very new to Klipsch speakers.  I recently bought a pair of RP280F for my home theater, and a pair of RF-7 II for my living room.  I really like my RF-7 II after correcting some deficiencies with a 31-band equalizer.

[how to get rid of muddy bass on La Scala]

I recently picked up a decent pair of 1980s/1990s vintage La Scala on Craigslist.  One tweeter was blown and requires a diaphragm/coil replacement (no biggie), and the 3/4" plywood finish is very ugly, but the pair of speakers is otherwise in very good shape.  It comes with AA crossovers.  Everything about the speakers is nice - except for the sound coming out of the 15" woofers.  It has good treble and very strong and rich mid range, but the sub-400 Hz frequencies coming out of the 15" woofers are just exceedingly muddy and boomy.  The muddy echos are highly irritating.  The muddiness must be because of cabinet resonance on the 3/4" plywood.  What can I do to eliminate the resonance?  I am thinking of applying 12"x12" marble or granite tiles to the interior and exterior surfaces of the woofer box to stiffen the walls to eliminate resonance, but the tiles would add a whole lot of weight.  Are there other solutions I can try?