Droogne
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Posts posted by Droogne
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3 hours ago, Chris A said:
Well, I guess that an MEH crossing over at 500 Hz will be too big, unless you can figure out how to miniaturize sound waves...
Seriously...the SEOS 30 is actually about as small as you can go without losing polar control at the horn mouth at or before you get there (with a little margin to spare...which you'll need before you're done). What I'd recommend looking at is using a big-mouth horn that's fairly short--like a straight-sided horn...also called "conical". Then worry about how to package that size horn mouth in your height channel placement areas. Then I'd recommend looking hard at more unorthodox room placement positions. You'll find that you can do it with some amount of compromise, but you'll be giving up some or all of the low frequency performance unless using a largish open baffle or box around the horn mouth.
Chris
Size is actually not a real concern, weight is. My size restrictions are pretty flexible. I don't have a girlfriend or wife so I can get away with almost everything. I live with my brother and I doubt he is gonna mind. I think I can manage up to 100x40x60cm in size for the height channels. I can mount up to 40kg, but I would like to keep that weight down to 30kg to be safe. Price is also not a real concern as that would only mean saving a bit longer. So if only the SEOS30 would work I could live with that. They are only height channels, so they will never ben run seperately for critical listening.
I already asked you in another thread what the highest MEH crossover could be, precelisely because I would like to have the same for all speakers, and it looks like 500hz is pretty hard for a height MEH. This begs the question. What would be the best timbre matched setup in your opinion:
1:
all 11 using same crossovers points, but having to use a hoger crossover for the mains (let's says the MEH). For example all 11 channels @700hz so that the heights can use the same cross as the ground levels.
2:
Ground level at their native 475hz. Heights at an appropriate cross (7-800 for example), but using same high.freq driver etc.
I know I have to compromise, but I'm not sure yet where.
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On 10-11-2016 at 9:28 PM, Chris A said:
I use 475 Hz within the K-402 horn (48 dB/octave).
Did you ever use, or try, a higher crossover? If so, what was the highest it performed well at (or you think it would perform)?
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@Chris A Another question about custom height channels. I'm looking into a synergy horn that could work, but I cant seem to figure a way to get the crossover down to 500hz. Only option is using a SEOS30, but that one is too big. A SEOS22 could work, but has a crossover that is too high. Other option is to have the synergy use a higher crossover, but then I would kinda lose the advantage of the synergy in polar contral (especially in the smaller horns I would be using). What options do I have if I want to use the same driver (HF200 or 140). Would the horn you once recommended be a better fit? I doubt it, but who knows. (https://www.ebay.com/itm/11-x-17-ABS-2-Bolt-On-Long-Throw-Horn-90-x-40-For-Many-2-Exit-Driver-/331676072699)
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5 hours ago, Chris A said:
The following two threads:
and
If you're using a MacIntosh, then this thread will help a little:
Chris
Ok, I feel kinda embarrassed right now.. I knew those threads and have read through quite a few times.. Just forget they had exactly everything I needed to know. Will try it all out tomorrow!
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8 hours ago, babadono said:
Knock off? What dat mean?
Sorry, I meant: OEM Xilica xp4080. Cant be sure yet it's the same quality, but the person selling it was a reputable seller which also offered real Xilica products. That aside, it might be not as good, but I also need a few processor channels for my rears so at this price Is couldn't really get wrong. Will try to test the Quality over this week. Any way to test this?
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@Chris A just bought myself a knock-off Xilica 4080, and will be testing it in the next few days. Might try to actively amp my heresy (or Chorusses LR) which I'm using as a temporary center till my LaScalas get here. Just to get the hang of it (and REW). Other option is to use the passives, reset Auddysey and try to configure everything up myself. I only have free time for now, so I can do both and have loads of time to read up on everything, from guides to threads. what what you recommend to learn the whole process? Will of course be basing my initial try outs on your forum guides.
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I know there are a lot of suggestions out there, but I was wondering if anyone would be able to tell me the exact(/best) specs to look for in a 15" woofer to use in a DIY LaScala bassbin. That way I can look for something reasonably priced locally (I live in Belgium).
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@Chris A Have been wondering about polar control and seating angle/distance. What is the effect of perfect polar control on this? When people talk about the Jubilee, they always mention the perfect sound across the whole room, not in one hotspot. What would the effect be on seating placement? Would this mean less tooing for perfect sound at the main SP? And better coverage across the whole room?
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I've come up with another solution, which seems to be a lot easier, straight forward and would be a great way to step up. I was so caught up in my K55/K77 driver combo, that I kinda neglected the option to just sell them, and not build the LaScala bins. With the money I save and earn I could directly build my custom height channels with the HF200 driver (on the PH2380 horn), but use them as a center channel between the HF200/K510/LaScala fronts. Later when I have the MEHs I can move the Lascala K510 to the rears, and mount the custom heights. Later I could upgrade those PH2380 horns to K510 horns.
I know a non fully horn loaded is a downgrade, but it's only temporary so that's not an issue. Building a horn loaded height channel seems impossible so it will have to be direct firing (except if you know of a horn loaded mid bass cabin that weighs less than 15kg and is within my size restrictions, see below). The plan I have now is:
a 40(depth)x70(width)x45(height) (around 80-100L) enclosure with double 10" woofers. A single 12 could also work but I'm height restricted (max 48cm height). Double 12" would be too heavy. It could still work (double 12s) if I find a woofer which can work in a really small enclosure (so less weight) and doesn't weigh too much (around 3kg). For now I was thinking about the Eminence beta 10B, although it seems the Eminence Alpha 12 could also work. Both weigh less than 3kg, have great sensitivity and can work in small enclosures. Eminence even recommends 20-25L for the 12"er.
I would mount the horn directly on top of it, so not in the enclosure. That way I can easily swap the horn out for a K510 horn when the day comes.
I would use my DCX2496 as crossover.
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2 minutes ago, Chris A said:
The K-510 horn with a Faital Pro HF200 series driver, suitably dialed in, will have a smoother sound and will have better polar control, both vertically and horizontally, to a lower frequency, without any issues with higher order modes (HOMs).
Planning on buying a good crossover for it, but for now the passive will have to do. Might try out the active I have now (which is only a DCX 2496 I know..) to compare them. Depending on that I might upgrade a bit sooner to the Xilica.
But for now:
3-way fronts with 2-way centers: best speaker as center
or 2-way fronts with 3-way centers: best speakers both in the LCR
or 3-way fronts with heresy centers and 2-way centers: best coherence (LCR would be all K55 + K77 mid high)
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37 minutes ago, Chris A said:
This really depends on the crossover frequency. I wouldn't do that if you're crossing much higher than something like 250 Hz. The typical 400 Hz crossover frequency of the La Scala is actually a little too high to avoid introducing lobing issues, but the lobing may be partially mitigated by using shallower slope crossover filters (i.e., 6 or 12 dB/octave), if the drivers can support those extended frequencies. It also depends on the listening distance from the listeners to the center loudspeaker. If you're farther back than 3-4 metres, you're probably okay.
Ok it seems like I'll have to test it
making a temporary stand wont be that hard. Makes me wonder about people putting their tweeter next to the mid horn instead of one top. Doesn't that have a similar effect?
PS I have the option between a 3-way LaScala (original parts on the PH2380) with active crossover, or my passive K510/HF200 combo. I'm not really sure about the specs of the cross, but this is what Steve (Steve Bedard that is), had to say about it: "
"It's a Crites 500Hz crossover. It is a simple design, much like the traditional Klipsch crossovers. Gentle 12Hz/Octave slope. Use of Klipsch autoformers and Sonicap Capacitor."Would you suggest the 3 or 2 way for the center/fronts? I could also use the heresy as a center between the 3-way LaScalas for best coherence. -
As a temporary situation I'm gonna use my LaScala rears as center front and back (so 6.1 instead of 7.1 on the ground). I wasn't planning on building top bins for them, but I I'll need to ,if I want to put my tv on top of it. Brings me to my question: would it be so terrible to put the mid/high horn next to the bassbin, instead of on top of it? Would be almost the same distance, but in the horizontal instead of vertical plane. I know we talked about something similar, but I can't seem to remember if it's just "not ideal", or really a no-go.
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Just disclosed my first buy via this forum succesfully, so I thought why not put out some feelers for the future? Not urgently looking for these parts, but if anyone is ever looking to sell them (or planning too), hit me up! Very interested! Ultimately looking for:
1) 5-9 Faital HF-200 or 20AT drivers.
2) another pair of K510 horns
3) a pair of K-402 drivers!
Important! I'm located in Europe, so I can only do shipping. To be clear, a lot of stuff you guys sell and offer over here is: or never available in Europe OR still cheaper than buying it over here (prices or some products are hugely inflated over here)(the 2x horns I mentioned would have to be shipped from the US, even if I buy them new.. so shipping them second hand is still way cheaper than new).
Thanks in advance
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10 minutes ago, Chris A said:
There is a requirement to get the centerline of the loudspeaker up to about 1.3 metres (~50 inches) off the floor.
If you're going to do that, it makes sense to fill that air between the bottom of the loudspeaker and the floor with something. Additionally having truly "full range" frequency response capability co-located at each of the five surrounding loudspeaker locations is a big plus in terms of low bass coverage in-room to avoid the effects of room modes. It simply makes sense to integrate low bass capabilities with the surround loudspeakers.
From the standpoint of distributing low bass injection into the room at differing points in the room (like Geddes's subwoofer method), it's simply advantageous to use the locations of the five surrounding loudspeakers to place them in-room. You could also place one subwoofer in a corner, one at mid-wall, and one somewhere else in-room and achieve approximately the same result. SO there is no "requirement" for co-locating the subwoofers with the loudspeakers, only the opportunity to do so. It eliminates other dialing-in issues if it can be done.
If you integrate the subwoofer frequency response with the surrounding loudspeakers, then you'd treat each channel as a single loudspeaker, and the LFE would inject into the array at each surround channel using "full range" loudspeakers and no subwoofers. An AVP or AVR will do this for you...handle the LFE content in movies and the crossover point to the "infrasonic bass" channel at each loudspeaker to basically eliminate the separate subwoofer concept.
This subtle shift in thinking affects the entire subject of full-frequency coverage...which tends to treat subwoofers as "something different". They're not, but they need to be located in places to negate the effects of room modes--something that in most listening rooms is important at 200 Hz or perhaps even higher frequencies.
If you're limiting the bandwidth of the subs to one octave or so (and you would in the configurations that you've illustrated above), then you might be able to get along with direct radiating subs for the bottom octave below 30 Hz. They would be limited in terms of absolute loudness--which is important for subs due to the equal loudness curves, but unless you're a big pipe organ fan (...like I am...), you probably won't hear any difference using the DR subs, which you'd mostly hear/feel on movies. The size of your room and the number of subs-distributed across the room's front wall should be taken into account in terms of "filling up" the room's modes.
Chris
As always, sublime answer! Don't think I have any questions left in me... Only that if/when I go MEH I might just make a 8x 18" layer below the LCR with a few others spread around the room. Troubles for later. For now I'm putting my money into 2-3 smaller 15" subs to better fill the room. Depending on how everything goes that might be extended to a 4th beneath the couch (VNF, but also very good to help with room modes I thought). Good to know there is no inherent problem with the front firing, fitting in an othorn into my room would be a tough sell ! Maybe as a down firing coffee table
What subs were you thinking about?
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@Chris A, semi related to something I heard you say about the future of your 5xMEH setup and subwoofers, it maybe even has something to do with polar control, not sure. You were talking about raising the MEH from the ground by putting a sub beneath it, I think a horn (like the othorn?). Just some questions:
1) Is there any specific reason for this? Would this couple them in kind of a way? Or is it just because the corner placement would be ideal for both the MEH as the sub (without having any relation between in the specific sound)., OR just because it's a space saving option?
2) Are there any kind of "requirements" for having a front speaker on top of a sub? Both same type? Specific crossovers?
3) Would the sub use the LFE channel, or be a lower extension of the MEHs? Like a 3 way.
I might be interested in placing a DIY sub beneath my fronts (because of the way my listening room is positioned, and because I also need to raise my fronts) , in which case I would model the cabin to be a drop in "extension" of the fronts (so it's a steady foundation and looks nice). A horn sub would be ideal, but I'm looking for a couple of subs to take me down to the lower frequencies (sub 20hz) and I was thinking about doing this with front firing sealed ones. A horn sub that goes down this low is too expensive, and too big (although if you perchance know about a design that can do this, and which is maximum 2ft deep and 2,5ft. high, I'm happy to hear about it!). Any reason why not to do this kind of combo? (let's say I have a full LCR MEH for this hypothetical). Maybe some acoustical reason why not or just because of the same principle as explained above by PWK ? (distortion wise)
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4 minutes ago, Chris A said:
Well...the pattern looks very similar to a K-402 from the mouth side--except for the four woofer off-axis ports, of course. The rear of the horn is much different--with woofer mounting surfaces and reinforced horn side walls included in the differences. The horn material isn't black ABS: it can be clear or most any clear or opaque color, with the possibility of other decorative embedments possible. There is a fair amount of latitude in the material acoustic properties available and filling materials that can attenuate structural vibrations.
The mold is about 90-95% complete: the rear reinforcing structure is very near completion. A full day or perhaps two at reasonable fiberglassing temperatures should be enough to complete. After that, assuring the sealing and preparing the mold, then pouring the first part (about 35 pounds of resin) will follow.
Much trial-and-error in the mold design was required in order to accommodate the unique shape of the MEH assembly. The mold itself is unique in construction and materials. That is the only part of the design that I don't intend to share.
The geometry of the off-axis ports in the horn was verified using the prototype for acoustic measurements, and was simulated using Hornresp--but only very coarsely. They proved to be on the mark in terms of their placement and size.
Chris
Love what you do man! I just discovered your big post about this on the DIYAudio forum (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/307156-range-synergy-kit-questions-10.html) so I'll be reading through it during my breaks. I see you already have a few people lining up
I'm kinda getting convinced that it might be better idea to skip the K402 MEH and get one of yours. Would love to buy one (or 3, or 5 haha) from you. I see you already have a few people who are first in line (after your 5 new ones ofcourse)(What are you doing with the old MEH?). Would it be able for me to get in that line? Like officially If so, could I get a (rough) price?
Thanks for being you man haha, learning so much, and hope to get some your craftmanship into my home someday!
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11 minutes ago, Chris A said:
By the way, the prototype K-402 MEH weighs about 125 pounds--the weight of a La Scala I. If using the lightest weight K-402 horn, i.e., the most recent version, subtract 10 pounds--to arrive at about 115 pounds overall.
If using a DIY horn--the one I'm working on--add at least 20 pounds. If using TAD 4001 drivers, add 15 more pounds. This would bring the weight up closer to the La Scala II's 175 pounds.
haha well never mind the MEH height channels then
maybe in an ideal situation one could mount them, but my situation isnt that (although if you'd use 2 wall mounts you could get there hypothetically.). Not that it really matters, I dont really know a situation where I would ever want to pump over 3k in a pair of height channels. (although a smaller version with smaller woofers and a higher cutoff (100?) integrated into something like the K510, if at all possible, would be something cool to design)
And if you don't me asking, how far along are you with the DIY horn? Dont want to pressure you or anything, especially if you have more important things on your mind, but it looks a cool project. How are you modelling the horn? A replica of the K-402, or a more "self-invented" design? And what is holding up the project? Are you having some design struggles, difficulties in the DIY construction part, or just time? How is it looking so far? Any results?
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3 minutes ago, Chris A said:
I didn't see any significant correlation to woofer cost and higher fidelity in the MEH in my analysis during the design stage.
It's just like PWK's fully horn loaded loudspeakers: once you find the right T/S parameters for the job, it makes little difference if you put a pair €100 woofers in or €1500 ones, the sound quality is basically unchanged because of the acoustic transformer action of the horns. When you take away the need for long throw diaphragms (like those used in direct radiating loudspeakers), the need to spend a lot on the woofers evaporates.
Aight, I'll stick with the eminence woofers then
3 minutes ago, Chris A said:It's much better to put your money on the compression drivers to get the best quality you can afford for reproducing the last octave: 10 to 20 kHz. That's why the BMS 4592-ND is of interest: there are actually two drivers built into one compression driver case--one that crosses over at ~6-7 kHz (the tweeter) and the other midrange diaphragm that goes from that 6-7 kHz tweeter handover band down to as low as 300 Hz crossover to the woofers.
Chris
Well only problem I have with that is that it would just not stay affordable if I'd want to try to match my speakers. The faital HF200 looks like a very nice and recommended driver for the K-402, and it's affordable enough to use in all speakers. The BMS would be too expensive for this. And if I would ever to decide to upgrade the drivers in the LCR (so keep the surround etc all HF200 and only upgrade LCR as to keep the change in timbre match as minimal as possible), I would probably go for something even more high end (TAD? JBL with Be extented diaphraghm, Be Radian drivers etc). But upgrading those drivers would be even after upgrading the amps for my LCR. Probably not for a long time, but when the times comes I'll definitely love some guidance in picking some good amps (when going SS I'd probably go for something like the Emotiva XPA6 Gen 3)
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@Chris A, as I have almost most definetely chosen for a MEH in the near future I might start looking for some of the parts
Will probably just use the HF200, but might go with 20AT (as the difference in price is negligible when compared to total cost), but if I can maybe decide on a few good woofers I might look for them on local second hand sites. The eminence kappa 15"ers are good choices normally (don't remember the specific one), but would there a benefit by using something more "high end"?
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3 hours ago, Chris A said:
It's not an integration issue, but rather a sound quality issue. One of the things that you've probably yet to experience is a center loudspeaker with fully horn-loaded bass, i.e., without reflex ports. The following article written by PWK is one that I keep handy for these instances: http://assets.klipsch.com/files/Dope_760600_v15n6.pdf. The short story is that if you go to the trouble to have horn-loaded bass in the front corners, you don't want to mess that up using direct radiating bass in your center. In fact--and this is something that few people have actually experienced--I find that there is really a need cleaner bass in the center loudspeaker--not worse or even as good as the flanking front L-R loudspeakers.
Well I'm using a LaScala center (which costed more than the fronts together) because I wanted a sound as clean as possible
I already though the direct firing were a bad idea! Only height appropriate horn loaded bass bin I ever found was the EV TL4025 (http://electrovoice.com/binary/TL4025_Engineering_Data_Sheet.pdf), but it's huge (depth and width wise). I long thought about using direct firing because they looked like the only option for the height problem. But it does feel like stepping down, instead of upgrading.. so Ive finally settled for the MEH als the only real option (and till recently an intermediate with a cheaper one). All thanks to you
QuoteThe reason why this is so seldom experienced by audiophile listeners is due to the difficulty in getting good, extended, horn-loaded bass in a center loudspeaker. But once you hear it, you'll never want to go back to direct radiators, in my experience. The K-402 MEH does that better than any other loudspeaker that I've heard--in fact it has potential usable extension down to 30 Hz (about an octave lower than a La Scala or Belle, and slightly lower than a typical Khorn bass bin) without incurring significantly increased distortion. See the following on-axis frequency response and phase plot of the K-402-MEH when placed in a room corner:
That plot looks amaaaasing. When I suggest some extra bass bins for beneath the MEH I wasnt really looking for a deeper response, but rather about middbass headroom. As you explained above, that option is a step down. However, would a LaScala bin for the lower bass (beneath 200hz) give that. You talked about this sort of combo (as a different model with smallers woofers instead of the 15"ers.). It wouldn't change my plans a lot, as I have the LaScala bass bin already, and I'm definetely building a "regular" MEH for my center like you did, so I can just try it out and see if I like it more than the regular MEH. However that would mean losing lower end, which is not such a problem as I'd be using them in home theatre, but it would be nice to have. Could you combine the MEH with (1 or even 2) LaScalas (a vertical or horizontal tower) and have the MEH cross the total full range, and have the LaScala bins give an extra bump in the 200-50hz range (because of its polar control up to 200hz)? The HF200 has huge output, but I'm not sure what it's relative to the 15" ers in the MEH. Would the extra 50-200hz range add something, or would it not really amount to anything?
QuoteThis means that the K-402-MEH also will serve extremely well as a
1) corner-horn loudspeaker,
2) center loudspeaker, or even as
3) an extended capability surround...assuming the required space exists in-room--about the size of a La Scala II as a surround loudspeaker.
Only thing I see being a problem is budget. Crazy though: MEH height channels lol. How much does the MEH weigh? Par chance less than 40kg (90lbs)?
QuoteI've found that using only a center K-402 MEH dramatically lessens the required bandwidth of subwoofers to below 40 Hz and their distributed room placement. There are quite a few listening rooms which have very few acoustic modes below 40 Hz to deal with via multiple subwoofer room placement. The front (L, C, R) + surround channels themselves can provide most of the deep bass output, leaving only about one octave of infrasonic bass to be covered by the subs (below 30 Hz).
Having the need for fewer subs would be awesome, my setup is in my living room and my brother is really forgiving (so not WAF but BAF?), but having that huge horn loaded sub is already a pain in the but
with a LCR MEH I could maybe sell that sub and replace it with a pair of smaller sealed 18"ers for the ULF (or convince him let me have an othorn) in the living room
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1 hour ago, Chris A said:
So you're asking if you could try out an MEH off-axis port cut-through using another horn? I haven't tried cutting ports in other horns, so my suggestions on horns to use will be purely speculative. I don't know any horn like a K-402 in size and full-range potential for MEH use except perhaps a very large (and very expensive) Auto-Tech horn that's also very difficult to find due to its apparent low production run.
I own two different P.Audio horn models, one of which is the one that you identified above. I used it for a little while on top of a Heresy bass bin with a K-69-A driver as a temporary center channel, but I quickly lost interest in it because I was using that horn from 600-18,000 Hz and the "frying eggs" sound was quite prevalent due to its throat-located slot. Once you get to 4 kHz with that 2" diameter throat horn, it will produce higher order modes in abundance, which are audible as that frying eggs sound described.
I'd recommend something like the following instead (ships from Florida):
or
I don't how their bass performance might be below the mouth polar control frequency, and which woofers to use. Here is a link to a thread on diyAudio that might help you along that path if you're trying to go that direction:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/292379-syns.html
Note that I'm not a big fan of "small Synergies" since they require separate bass bins and are a lot of work to accomplish--that a good 2" compression driver like any of the Faital Pro HF200 series, or a bi-amped and EQed dual-diaphragm BMS 4592-ND that would cover in one step on a K-510 horn--and it would do it better. In my view, if you're going to spend the time on an MEH, use a full-range horn and much larger 15" woofers so that you can approximate a Danley SH-96...or perhaps a SM-96 if you're going to go smaller. (The Danley SH-50 and SH-60 and their molded horn counterparts have too narrow a horizontal coverage pattern for my needs--by about a factor of two.)
Chris
Hmm.. If I'd need an expensive horn or need another bin, I'd better hold out for the K-402. Just struck a deal on the sale of my current LaScala II center, so I actually have the budget to build the MEH (with a brand new horn). Got a few options if I can't build an intermediate full range MEH.
1: I dont use a center speaker for a while. 2: I use one of my heresys as a center, and use the other one as a rear center (a 6.1 config). In both cases I'll just have to wait till I can find a K-402 for cheap somewhere. 3: I buy a brand new K-402 (but it would use all money I gain from selling my center, which I was hoping to put towards the Xilica and my K-402 fronts). Thanks again for keeping me away from inferior setups
In any case, it seems like I'm gonna wait till end of february to decide what I'm gonna do. The sale of my Lascala would only go down around that time so it's not like I have the budget to buy a K-402 till then.
Additional question. What would the effect be if you'd add some regular front firing bass bins beneath the MEH center? Would it be impossible to integrate? Or wouldn't there be any real additional effect? Not really considering it, just an afterthought
(one I had because I would need to raise the MEH if I want the tv on a decent height (although even a 12" bassbin underneath it would destroy the height advantage of the MEH, as the tv would be too high again). If I like the MEH I'll probably use it on my fronts too, and maybe even integrate it with my LaScala bins (and maybe even the center if I ever decide to switch from my OLED to a big AT project screen).
(thought keep popping into my head). If I'd want to boost the midbass, could I use 2 LaScalas next to each other with the MEH/regular K-402 on top. Or do the horn mouths need to be in each others extension (in which case: would 2 LaScalas on their side next to eachother work, and still hold that 200hz pattern you spoke about).
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8 hours ago, Chris A said:
Cutting the off-axis woofer through ports into the K-402 horn isn't rocket science. It will take perhaps an afternoon or less to dial in via the web with you and I on each end of emails. Thus far, I've helped perhaps a dozen guys dial in their setups using REW, a calibrated microphone and a DSP crossover on their end.
Would you be able to recommend a really cheap intermediate (like my PH2380), that would work? (I know you said something about the slot and use above 4kHz, but I'm not sure how to translate that into picking a good horn. You recommend something really cheap, but unavailable in Europe). Here is the list of P Audio drivers (http://www.paudiothailand.com/pac/index.cfm/products/high-frequency-horns/) , something that looks like it could work? (with the emphasis on "work", perfection would not be chased with this horn). Then I'd have a"tryout" before I'd need to cut into the expensive K-402. I'd use the same driver (HF200), woofers (not decided on) + MDF mounts, and I would already build the appropriate box (with a temporary adjusted front plate) for when I can get my hands on the real deal. I know you already explained it to some extent, so it would be possible right? Would give me the option to already start on the MEF project (instead of having to wait till I have the capital) + maybe I can go from this cheap version to your adjusted DIY mold
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6 hours ago, Chris A said:
I found that I wanted a stiffer/heavier horn...in one piece--and costing a lot less than a K-402 (with a mandatory attached driver that I don't want), available only in basic black. So it's all DIY: just my two hands and pocketbook. Not sure how many horns can be made from one mold, however. My needs are for five horns.
Chris
Well cant argue about the cost and attached driver. If it as good as you say then I probably keep upgrading till I have 7 (or 11), so a better priced option without driver would be amaaaaazing!
5 hours ago, No.4 said:I think many people would be interested in a molded horn with all of the driver mounts in place. Personally if there was a molded horn available at a reasonable price that could be finished by the builder I would be all over it.
I check the the thread on diy Audio from time to time hoping for an update. Finishing the mold could be a good goal for the new year, hint hint.🤔
Would be the best new years gift I can imagine
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2 minutes ago, Rudy81 said:
No shipping......way too large to make it a simple process. Rockhound seems to want them and I should hear from him tomorrow for sure.
No problem
Would be quite te hassle too, I agree. Hope he can get them!
making a temporary stand wont be that hard. Makes me wonder about people putting their tweeter next to the mid horn instead of one top. Doesn't that have a similar effect?
If so, could I get a (rough) price?
with a LCR MEH I could maybe sell that sub and replace it with a pair of smaller sealed 18"ers for the ULF (or convince him let me have an othorn) in the living room
A K-402-Based Full-Range Multiple-Entry Horn
in Technical/Restorations
Posted
I was (wrongly) under the misunderstanding that the distance determined the MINIMUM crossover, not one specific frequency. Also, what kind of woofer horn loading are you looking at in your model?