ODS123

You're right, I should have said "tended to be" To restate, "Audiophiles tend to look down their noses at tone controls, while music lovers tend to find them essential." I stand by the rest of what I said.

Couldn't disagree more. Not to flame but audiophiles look down their noses at tone controls while music lovers find them essential. ..I'm the latter. There are sooo many recordings of great great music that are hard to listen to b/c the recording itself is tipped up, too bright. ..An accurate hifi system will pass this right along to the listener. Until you can go back in time and re-record these songs, a small turn of the treble control makes these songs more enjoyable. While on the subject, I also think a MONO switch is essential. ..In the early days of stereo recording engineers would do silly things like have the singer coming out of the right channel while his acoustic guitar would come from the left. ..Totally screwy. ..Hitting the MONO switch will bring the singer and his guitar back together. ..Lots of early Beatles songs were like this. So my advice to budding audiophiles is always to look for an integrated amp (or Pre-amp) with these basic tools and use them at your discretion.

Would be very curious to see how your measurements would compare with Klipsch's. Are you sure there's is nothing about your room acoustics contributing to this?

I agree but I wasn't talking about amplified music I'm talking about flutes, clarinets, violins, certainly brass instruments and even voices. Sitting or standing beside these long enough can be grating. Having a system that attenuates high frequencies will make these sounds softer but will also render them less life like

The OP said in a previous post that the forte was fatiguing - that it sounded too bright. Perhaps it would've been helpful in understanding what he meant if he told us what recordings, volume level, and how long it took for the fatigue to set in. Just wanting to know if he based these conclusions on music that was bright to begin with. I have been a lot around a lot of live music in my life and a lot of live music is harsh sounding; Almost instantly fatiguing when heard from too close or too loud. That music heard on an accurate hi-fi rig would also sound harsh and fatiguing

I totally agree that it's pretty cool you customize your speakers and tha you have the skill to do this. We all enjoy the hobby in different ways. But my question remains unanswered. To put it another way: If you make a speaker incapable of causing listener fatigue aren't you also diminishing its ability to sound lifelike??

you're a brave man Speedy to do all that to your FIII's! You say "ZERO fatigue" but what does that mean and why is that your goal?? ..Are you saying zero fatigue at any volume, any length of listening session and any kind of music/ instruments? To my thinking, listening fatigue is not necessarily an indication that something is wrong. Some instruments and some voices, when heard live and un-amplified, WILL start to fatigue after awhile. So these same instruments and voices played at live volumes on an accurate hi-fi rig will also start to fatigue. ..If you can't provoke listening fatigue EVER on a hifi rig then I would think the system is a bit soft and dull - meaning you're losing some of the music all of the time. Personally, I alway choose integrated amplifiers w/ tone controls to deal w/ occasional listening fatigue. ..A slight leftward twist of the treble control and a bright recording is suddenly tolerable..

..Well that certainly doesn't apply to me. I was totally satisfied with the PSBs, Vandersteens, and Paradigms I had prior to buying my Cornwalls. Each was perfect the first time - no returns, no exchanges. And I am confident I'll be completely satisfied with my Conrwalls too - my dealer has committed to making certain of it. I'm not sure I'd dig seeing that comment on an invoice of a business I'm considering working with. ..Seems a bit prickly and defensive to me.

My brand new Cornwall iii boxes are now in storage, but if memory serves the box says something like "S/N ###########16" to be paired with "S/N##########17." And the other box says same but lists the S/N's in reverse order From the Klipsch website: "BOOK-MATCHED WOOD VENEER Each pair of Heritage Series loudspeakers is grain-matched using wood veneer panels that come from the same timer. Each cabinet is carefully matched so that each speaker in the pair is practically indistinguishable from the other. ...Each finished product is inspected and labeled with sequential serial numbers, ensuring that the Heritage Series speakers leave the factory as a meticulously crafted set."

I listened to the Forte iii's before buying my Cornwall iii's. - they didn't sound bright to me at all. I bought the Cornwalls b/c of the size of my listening space, but would have been happy w/ the Fortes too. Listening fatigue is not necessarily the fault of your system, nor is it an indication that something is wrong. Some instruments (brass, some strings for example) when heard live WILL start to fatigue. So these same instruments played at live volumes on an accurate hi-fi rig will also start to fatigue. ..If NO music is ever fatiguing after a while then I would think a system is a bit soft and dull and you're apt to be losing some of the music all of the time. As an aside, this is why I alway choose integrated amplifiers w/ tone controls. ..A slight leftward twist of the treble control and voila, a bright recording is suddenly is tolerable..

4 Cornwalls Budman? That's awesome! ..And getting 4 consecutive s/n's without an issue is reassuring. So earlier today I spoke w/ my salesperson at the dealer. He enthusiastically said he would reach out to his Klipsch rep early next week to resolve this. For now, and until resolved, he encouraged me to continue using this pair. There was not the slightest indication of impatience from the salesperson, just a promise to get it right. He knows I want a replacement pair that has been carefully checked for both driver fit and freedom from cabinet dents before I am called to inspect them myself and exchange my pair. ..So I suspect this is what I'll get once another pair is available. I'm very happy for this.

jimjimbo, You had just chided me for starting a thread that you described as pointless, leading me to then wonder why you were be participating in it? Plus, your "Front door at Indy? Corporate counsel? Bullshit. Apparently nothing better to do?" response to another poster also seemed nasty and suggestive of your impatience with the thread. So reminding you of your option to not participate seemed reasonable. As for dragging Klipsch and dealer through the mud, I have not done this. ..I love how the speakers sound (have said so several times) and have not been unfairly critical of the dealer. Perhaps you didn't notice but last week I posted a very glowing review of these speakers, it should come as no surprise that I would circle back to share w/ people the issues that arose following my review.

Initially, seeking affirmation from other audio hobbyists that I'm doing the right thing insisting on a pair of perfect speakers. ..Then, simply answering questions and replies. ..You're free to opt out of thread if you so chose.

I respect your point of view but I think $4200 is lot to spend and end up w/ speaker that would be considered an 8/10 on Audiogon, which is ironic b/c the 9 year old Paradigm S8's I sold to fund this purchase were a 9/10. ..They had absolutely flawless cabinets. As I've said, it looks worse in person. Plus, its sufficiently deep you can't miss it when you run your hands over it.

They really can't do anything but appease me one way or another, as I'm still within the 60 day refund policy (which is pretty generous) which is offered without any restocking fee, etc.. ..So worst case scenario is I get my money back and simply order through Klipsch. So far, the dealer has not pushed back. I Will call them later this AM. ..I did send an email yesterday but they may not have seen it.

..Looking more closely at the boxes of my speakers I see that a 2nd layer of tape was laid on top the original. Interesting. ..I'm now wondering if these had been unboxed previously. If so, this isn't a Klipsch problem, but a dealer problem. ..Waiting for call back from dealer. I'll be very angry if these had been returned by a previous customer. ..Unboxing them, it did not appear as though they were re-boxed. ..everything looked perfect, that is until I saw the dents. My "ask" of my dealer will be that Klipsch triple checks a pair at the factory for fit/finish issues then sends it to my dealer. ..Either I get to hold on to these until then, or I'll take the speakers back now and I get my money back until they arrive.

I agree about their veneer being of high grade. ..I carefully looked at bunch of different Klipsch models (inc. RF series) at the dealer and the fit/finish was uniformly beautiful. I also agree about not blaming shipping as the dents in the box do not correspond w/ the dents on the speaker. My hunch is this happened when they set the completed cabinet on it's top and mounted the riser. ..Some debris - like a snip of wire - was under the speaker as they applied pressure to drive the wood screws through the riser and into the cabinet. ..But it should have been caught prior to boxing. I'll let everyone know what the dealer says. ..Meanwhile, I'm certainly enjoying how these sound. Wow!!

I think if you saw it in person you'd agree this is both a man-made mark (not just an irregularity w/ the grain) and that it's too obvious to fall within what Klipsch would (should?) consider an acceptable blemish. I didn't have to scrutinize the speaker in bright light using a magnifying glass to see these dents, they were easily seen and felt. If these dents were on one one the sides, I would just live with it. ..But on the top? Though I won't mention the name, both sets of speakers have the same "Tested By" signature on the back. It's possible this person needs to be re-trained. As for picking the best two speakers from the two sets, you really don't want to do this. From the Cornwall Brochure: "BOOK-MATCHED WOOD VENEER Each pair of Heritage Series loudspeakers is grain-matched using wood veneer panels that come from the same timer. Each cabinet is carefully matched so that each speaker in the pair is practically indistinguishable from the other. ...Each finished product is inspected and labeled with sequential serial numbers, ensuring that the Heritage Series speakers leave the factory as a meticulously crafted set." As an aside, the Paradigm S8 v3s (also Cherry) that I sold to fund this purchase were 8 years old and did not have ANY blemishes on the wood cabinet. ..Only tiny little marks on the bases caused by a vacuum cleaner. I was able to sell them on Agon as 9/10s. While I'm not intending to sell my new Cornwalls for years to come, it's frustrating that I'd have to list this particular pair as 8/10, as of the day I took them out of the box.

They were exchanged at the dealers distribution center which was a crowed space with a concrete floor and people constantly breezing by. I figured there was a greater chance they'd get damaged just trying to unbox and re-box them than the chance of getting a 2nd bad pair. Apparently this was a mistake. This was the dealers last pair of Cherry Cornwalls. ..I'll tell them I can either return them for a refund or have Klipsch send them a new pair that has been triple checked for fit or finish issues. This would take 8+ weeks b/c there are no Cherry Cornwalls in Klipsch's inventory either. Ugh. I'm not looking for a refund or even to pressure them for a discount. I just want two speakers w/ drivers that seat properly into the baffle AND have no dents on them - particularly the top of the speaker! These two dents are easily seen and felt and, as I said, don't correspond w/ any of the dents in the boxes - so these were boxed this way. As for those suggesting I get Forte's I'm not sure why that assures me of no issues. ..They are built in the same place. I'm happy they have no issues w/ their Fortes but I don't think my choosing a different Klipsch speaker is really the issue.

As you may have read in my previous Thread, my first pair of Cornwall III's had a mid-range horn that was not flush mounted against the baffle. The dealer happily agreed to replace the pair but my second pair has a fairly obvious dent. Ugh!! I understand nothing is totally perfect, but such an obvious mark on top of the speaker? The box did seem a bit rough, with more than a few dents and a small perforation on the top of the box, but none of the dents or hole correspond w/ this dent on the speaker. ..I suspect it left the factory this way. ..It almost looks like it was set down on a staple, nail or snip of wire as the the riser was being bolted onto the speaker. ..I'm so sick of this. These speakers are freakin' awesome!!! ..But $4200 is a ton of money, they should be blemish free and have drivers that fit properly. So once again, I'm asking? What would you do? ..Just live with it, or return the speakers - yet again - to the dealer?

Thanks everyone. Yes, I'll return to let all know the 2nd pair is perfect.Not to be too sanctimonious but Klipsch should take heed. ..Yes, it's about the sound, but fit/finish do matter to people. Below is a picture of Klipsch's R-24F, their $340/pr. entry-level floor-stander tweeter, pictured alongside my $4200 pair Cornwall tweeter from their signature Heritage line. The Cornwall tweeter is hid beneath a thick Grill, whereas the R-24F is not covered. ..This, I suppose, necessitates that the fit of the R-24F driver be nice and tidy while the grill of the Cornwall allows it to be a bit less so. ..But given the huge investment, it is pretty upsetting for the Heritage line owner to find the fit/finish is no where near as clean. So if your reading this, Klipsch, please make sure this most definitely a very very rare occurrence.

Good question. ..Probably not b/c I'll be a bit pressed for time, plus these are so big and heavy that just packing/unpacking is a risky affair. ..Wouldn't be hard to scratch or mar them in some way in a crowded audio showroom w/ people walking around. ...But I told the dealer that I'll be returning the next pair if they have the same issue. ..I also told the Tech Support rep at Klipsch. If the replacement pair has the same issue I'll tell Klipsch that I want them to personally inspect the next pair before boxing them and shipping to my dealer. I'm hopeful the replacements will be fine. ..fingers crossed.

Spoke w/ Klipsch today, they happily gave me the green light to attempt repair and agreed to assume risk if something went wrong. But they also told me they had no Cornwalls in stock meaning it would be 8 or more wks to get a new pair to my dealer if I couldn't fix the defective speaker.Recalling that my dealer had one remaining pair of Cherry Cornwalls in stock I decided to just call the dealer and set up a return/exchange, I didn't want to wait 8 wks for a replacement pair if my repair attempt failed. So I pick up the replacements tomorrow. The dealer (Worldwide Stereo in Ardmore, PA) was very very nice about it. ..Saying, "you spent a lot, you deserve to have a perfect pair of speakers."A heartfelt thanks to those who weighed in on how to attempt this repair. ..I'm sorry I never put your advice to practical use.

Could very well be! ..Almost hoping so because I could easily fix it. But again, I'm not inclined to take a screw driver to it until Klipsch assures me doing so won't void the warranty. The mid horn on the other speaker is perfectly flush, as are all the other drivers in both speakers. So annoying. This issue wouldn't be possible with their other speakers (non-heritage) b/c the Gold speakers have a piece of trim that would only fit if the driver is flush. .. So my question is: If I can't fix it (with instructions and maybe a new driver from Klipsch), would you live with it as is or insist that Klipsch (or dealer - as they are still w/in return period) replaces the speakers? And I do mean both speakers b/c i wouldn't want a non-sequential pair.

Thank you both for your reply. ..I'll do as you suggest TasDom, though I'm not optimistic. The driver doesn't move at all when I firmly press on the raised corner. I don't think theres's empty space beneath it. Best case scenario is there's wood debris (from the CNC/ Router) that's keeping it from seating. If they give me the go-ahead I'll remove the driver and see if I can clear it. Worst case: the recess wasn't squarely cut and no amount of tightening will get the driver to lie flush. I suppose it's also possible the driver has some excess flange that wasn't trimmed and replacing the driver itself would take care of it. Anyway, this is so disappointing. Things happen of course. Not a biggie in the grand scheme of things..