redwood forest

Islander, organ music is my bag. I have a recording of Bach's Taccata And Fugue In D Minor performed at one octave below Bach's composition to take advantage of the organ's 64 foot pipes. I know that my system will not reproduce these 8Hz notes, but the Radio Shack SPL meter was measuring 104dB at 20Hz. This was a jaw-dropping experience. I have another recording of Mussorgsky's Pictures At An Exhibition done with an organ performing down to the same notes. The shock wave was awesome. Using an equilizer for the woofer is a good idea. I'm having trouble maintaining a flat dB line from 80Hz down to the lowest limits. Originally I was going to use two subs with each taking care of one octave (80 to 40Hz for one and 40 to 20Hz for the other). An equilizer sounds a lot more practical.

Dr. Who, the KPT 884 subwoofer only goes down to 27Hz. The RT 12d sub might be a better choice with a maximum low of 19Hz. One of these subs will create a 120 dB output which is the threshold of pain, and two of these subs will double that output. The RT 12d also has cherry wood finish which is a nice touch. I think you are right about the multiple subs with different frequency ranges being a problem. Perhaps I'll have better luck with the above subs maintaining a flat dB level over the 2 octaves. The Khorns that I already own are made from raw plywood with no hardwood, no finish, no nothing. Klipsch built these thirty years ago and are no longer offered. I've tried many times to decorate them but without success. This time I'm going for a finished model so the Jubilee is, as you said, out of the question. If I switch to the LaScala, the seven foot sound path of the Khorn and it's bass sound delay will no longer be a problem. As you said, the Khorn, LaScala, and Jubilee all have their strong and weak points. So unless Klipsch comes up wth the perfect speaker, I'll have to evaluate the whole picture and make a decision. Thanks for your help and let me know if you have any more suggestions.

DrWho, what you are saying about the TacT sub is correct, but which sub /amp combo will do the job correctly? I have been looking seriously at the LaScala II ever since it came out. It's appearance is a vast improvement over LaScala I, but still needs some more work. With the one inch construction boards, LaScala II is now solid as a rock. As for time delay, none is required because both the speakers in front and both subwoofers in the rear corner are all nine feet from the sweet spot. I have found that the subwoofers work well with the Khorns with both producing equal volumes in their frequency ranges. However, when the subwoofers have the crossover point moved to 80Hz., the subs are much louder in the 40-80Hz. range than they are in the 15-40Hz. range. I'm thinking about having two subs with one working in 40-80Hz. range and the other working in the 15-40Hz. range. Each sub will have it's own separate crossover/amp/attenuator combination.

Actually the Khorns take up more room, because they are positioned out in the room facing the sweet spot and forming a 9 foot equilateral triangle with the sweet spot. I am able to do this with very thick baffles behind the Khorns like the 60th anniversary editions. The subwoofers are also corner loaded speakers and positioned in the rear corners 9 feet from the sweet spot. My thinking is that placed out in the room, the LaScalas would be more aesthetically pleasing than the Khorns at the same position, but NOT at the expense of sound quality.

I presently have a pair of Khorns and a pair of TacT subwoofers that go down to 13Hz. The Marchand variable active subwoofer crossover is presently set at 35Hz so the subwoofer can take over after the Khorns drop out at that frequency. A Bryston 7B-ST 500 watt amp and a Placette Passive Pre provide the power and control of the subs. This signal is fed into an Active Placette Pre so the Khorns and subwoofer can be controlled simultaneously. This works perfectly, but my question is could the Khorns be substituted with LaScalas with the subwoofer crossover raised to 55Hz. to provide the same quality of sound as the Khorns with the crossover set at 35Hz?

Mark, I agree with your view that the image created from the minibox should not be changed. The image is natural and smooth from wall to wall with no abrupt emphasis at the center. What is really nice about the untampered minibox is that by making the center louder, you can actually make the image narrower for those that have K-horns that are too far apart. This also works with trios having two on the far sides and one in the middle. As I increase the volume of the center channel, I can actually "see" the left and right side sources gradually move toward the center. All that I've heard so far from this forum is the use of the center speaker to fill in the center hole by having the center channel volume slightly less than the sides. Even with this narrow image, the spectrum across the wall is still smooth and even, though not as much as if all the speakers had the same volume. Perhaps with the center speaker being louder, the time delay between the K-horns and the LaScala in the center won't be as obvious. How's that for a partial solution?

Klewless, this is an interesting concept of making the center channel mono without any left or right information. Wouldn't this have some negative effect on the total wall to wall image? With my mono channel including all of the left and right information, the overall image has equal loudness from wall to wall, and the location of every instrument is well defined and focused. I would think that with only mono sound from the left and right channels, the amount of information fed to the center speaker would be very restricted. What effect does this technique have on the total wall to wall image?

Wallflower, using the false corners is a good thing allowing you to place the cabinets where they sound best, not confining them in the corner. The constrained midfrequency sound is due to the exponential horn that Klipsch uses. I am using Al Klappenberger's "Trachorn" and it has made all the difference in the world. The imaging is extremely realistic and focused. One can identify the exact position of every source of sound in the image. I had the same harsh and grainy sound from the K-horns until I changed over to Al Klappenberger's "Universal Crossover" which also made a huge improvement. You don't have to worry about the toe-out or toe in position. My K-horns are aimed directly at the sweetspot, everything sounds realistic. The harsh and grainy sound is also due to the bad choice of tweeter used in the K-horn. While the JBL 2404 tweeter I use is $300 each, the sound quality far exceeds the quality of sound of the tweeter used in the K-horn. As for the bass of the K-horn, nothing in the world could be done to improve that. Don't even think about it as it would be a total waste of time. At this forum, there are two deeply divided groups: those that are traditional, and those that are progressive. The former believe that anything Klipsch said is law and therefore untouchable. The latter believe that the knowledge that Klipsch provided is invaluable, but is a starting point from which to improve. Therefore I am traditional when it comes to the bass, and progressive when it comes to the upper horns, and the use of false corners. It's now time to decide if you believe in tradition or progress.

Sorry, Meagain, but I lost track of this thread, Al's Trachorns are as good as he said they were. The imaging is unbelievable. I can point precisely to every instrument in the orchestra. Plus, I don't miss the ringing of the old horn at all. In my opinion Klipsch should replace all of it's midrange horns in the Heritage Series now with the "Trachorns". There is no excuse to continue using 60 year old technology when this much better "mouse trap" is available. I know it will be painful for Klipsch Inc. to acknowledge that Al's wooden horn is better than their metal or plastic horns, but that's just the way it is. I know that Klipsch doesn't want to hear that the ALK Universal Crossover is much better than the K-horn crossover. We all went through that pain last year with Al's sign-off from the forum. I think that what we had was a "pissing" contest. Al's suggestion of replacing K-horn tweeter with the JBL 2404 tweeter also was correct. The upper range is so much sharper and cleaner although an L-pad is needed to dampen the volume since the 2404 tweeter is much more efficient. A tech at Klipsch told me that they don't make changes, because K-horn fans want to make their own modifications. Wouldn't it be great if klipsch could add these optional modifications during the original cabinet construction and save us at lot of aggravation trying to make the speakers sound the best they can possibly sound. In my very humble opinion, all of these modifications improve the sound of the K-horns by at least 100%. Unfortunately, at lot of people that buy the K-horns have no idea that this forum exists and don't know how much better their speakers can sound. The least Klipsch could do is inform it's customer at the time of purchase the possible modifications available instead of having them wade through tons of material on the forum for years as many of us have done. Not everyone that buys expensive stereo equipment like us thinks of this journey as fun.

Glad I could help. Vishay plays hard to get when it come to giving out distributers for their products. Guy Hammel, the owner of Placette Audio uses nothing except Vishay S102C resistors and one of his sources has the following email address: haim.shmutz@vishay.com . It doesn't matter If you use the 3 resistor or 7 resistor minibox, because all resistors used will be 27K Ohm. Good luck.

What is the advantage of having the K-horns 24 feet apart? Unless you are using the short wall in a 24' x 36' room, the speaker to sweetspot angle is too extreme, probably 90 degrees. Perhaps you like listening from the conductors position, which is fine if that is what you want. With a 90 degree listening angle, Mary would sound like she is sitting at the front of the stage while Paul's voice would be from a distance aimed directly at your right ear, and Peter's voice would be aimed from a distance directly at your left ear. Sorry if I'm showing my age. Not only is there a sound delay problem, but an image positioning problem as well. I've been there and done all that while in my previous home. False corners will not only allow you to move the K-horns closer together, but move them outward into the room. While keeping the center speaker up against the wall and moving the K-horns outward, will create an arc that will keep all of your speakers equal distance from the sweetspot. This will eliminate the time delay problem. The false corners need only come to the front of the speakers so they won't be seen from the sweet spot. This will also solve the WAF problem. I hope this will take care of all of the foreseeable problems.

Good point, Mark; however, what I do to avoid the time delay is to place all of the speakers in an arc so all of the speakers are the same distance from the sweet spot. You can do that by using false corners and bringing out the K-horns so they are closer to the sweet spot. I am surprised that it took 60 years for Klipsch to finally build false corners into the K-horns. However, after the 60th aniversary model was gone, so were the false corner additions. Oh well, back to the status quo.

The K-horns are ten feet apart forming an equilateral triangle with the sweet spot. I was able to do this with false corners. The hole in the center is not as obvious as when the K-horns are in the corner, but the center speaker does make a difference in making the image lifelike across the entire wall. Before changing the minibox resistors, the center sound was raspy. Now it's perfect!

I am using K-horns on the sides with a LaScala in the center, and the same Mark Levinson amps for all speakers. While all speaker drivers and amps are identical, the sound was noticeably inferior in the center. It then dawned on me that the only difference between the center and the other speakers was the use of the minibox with it's three resistors to create the mono effect. Two 27K Ohm resistors go from left and right inputs to the center output, and a 27K Ohm resistor goes from the center output to ground. That's it! The other four resistors are not needed, because I'm using separate preamps to individually control the three channels. A "Y" spliter is then placed on the source of each channel with one lead going to the K-horn preamp, and the other going to the minibox input used by the LaScala. This allows the K-horns to bipass the minibox entirely. To improve the minibox, I then replaced the standard $ .10 resistors in the minibox with $ 10.00 Vishay S102C bulk foil resistors, and instantly the center channel was as good as the others. While this seems like an expensive tweak, the difference was very rewarding. I would recommend this change in your minibox if you find that you are not satisfied with sound of your center speaker. Nothing will make your center speaker sound as good as the other speakers if the center speaker is not the same quality. However, it's amazing how by upgrading three resistors in the minibox will cause such a drastic improvement in the sound of center speaker.