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Yes, it is the 1823M, I thought it goes from 200 to 8000 ?

I have had some success in the past voicing speakers for my room and my tastes by slightly altering the values of the stock crossover capacitors. In many Klipsch Heritage speakers, I have been reluctant to do this, because of the cut off of the horns. Dynamic drivers can usually be made to cover a little more frequency spread. My Electro Voice Sentry III's use the SM 120 Horn and 1843 driver, I think that is the number. They are crossed from the 15 inch woofers at 600 and 3500 to the E/V ST 350 tweeter in the E/V Sentry 3's. However, in the Sentry IV's, using this same horn and driver, they are crossed at 400 hz! This indicates to me this horn/driver combo can play down lower, so I am going to try it. The SM 120 and the 1843 driver will play well above 3500 hz, yet that is where it crosses over to the ST 350 tweeter. Why ? Why not let it play above 3500, since it can, and see how it sounds in my room ? All it will take is altering the capacitor values a bit, and see how it sounds ? The SM 120 is a CD horn, and is said to require some equalization? I am not familiar with CD Horns and the EQ they require. Is it the high frequencies that require EQ once you go up past a certain frequency ? If so, perhaps that is why EV stopped at 3500 when they have a combo that can play well above that ? Anyone have any thoughts on what I am contemplating ?

Thanks, I will pull them and see. hey, off topic, did you hear about the 2 Policemen murdered here in Tampa this week ?

I currently own Electro Voice Sentry III's and Cornwall II's, both speakers have had all new capacitors in the crossovers, the Corn 2's have Bob Crites Titanium Diapraghms installed, but I listened to them stock too. Side by side the Sentry vs the Cornwall 2's, there simply is no comparasion, in my room. The EV Sentry III's are better, to my ears.I plan to lengthen the wires from the Sentry III's crossovers to the drivers, so I can mount the crossovers on top of the speakers,,and voice them to my room by playing with slightly different value caps. The stock Sentry III's cross to the SM 120 midrange horn at 600 hz.I have been wondering if they can play down a bit lower, since the Sentry 4 crossed down at 400 hz ? About the bracing of the SM 120, I wonder if it was only suggested for the Sentry 4 ? In the Sentry 3's, the horn is solidly mounted in a wooden cabinet. I would be concerned the braces across the mouth of the horn may cause diffraction effects, but I may be wrong.

Hey Tom, are them Martin Logans in the Pic ? Are you burning out on stereo ? What happened to the Altec 19's ?

Does anyone have access to a Cornwall 2 wiring diargam, or know what color wires go to the + and - terminals of the respective drivers ?

Anyone know what color wires Klipsch used for the various drivers in Cornwall II ? I did install Crites Titanium Tweeter diapraghms, but don't think it is possible I installed them out of phase. I put all wires back like before, assuming they were correct to begin with ?

I would like to get my hands on something to check the color coded wires to the drivers. I have the crites tweeter diapraghms I put in, dont think I made a mistake. But even in the corners, bass is anemic

Crossovers all redone, caps at least, Comparing the corn 2's to Original Forte, no comparasion so far, no matter where I place the Cornwall 2's. I am gonna pull the woofers, since I bought them used, to be sure someone did not stick the wrong woofers in there ? Anyone care to tell me how to identify a stock cornwall 2 woofer ?

Plus Polk, Klipsch's Competitor, was a passive radiator speaker, remember the 'Polk Fluid Coupled Passive Radiator" ? Some folks who don't realize air is a fluid thought Matt Polk put water or hydraulic fluid in it.

I agree, the forte sounds better, and has room shaking bass. I sold the Moscode 600, but it is a colored amp. There are 2 Moscode amps, the 300 and the Moscode 600. The Moscode 600 is a much better sounding amp. You can roll tubes in it, get any sound ya want.

I don't get emotionally involved with speakers, they come and go regularly, but I have a question. Is the original Forte simply a better speaker then the Cornwall 2 ? The original Forte's shook my room with bass, and except for a touch of brightness were by far better then what I have heard out of the Cornwall II's so far. The Cornwalls seem to have anemic bass, no matter where I place them. Even in the room corners, they sound anemic compared to the bass power of the much smaller Forte's. What Should a Cornwall 2 sound like, compared to a Forte, anyone know ?

It may not be easy to find non inductive at .25ohms, so what does your cool program say about what a little inductance will do ? Hey Mike, since my speakers are 36 years old, and I think Alnico, could some of the speakers have lost magnetism/efficiency over the years, and the resistive old caps are compensating for this ? The midrange horn is running hotter then I care for with the new caps, just how MUCH resistance can I get away with on a capacitor w/o totally screwing the crossover up ? I still have the old caps, wish I had an ESR meter. They are 36 year old Mylars, except the unknown type 30uf caps are very large black caps with pink end caps, and say NP on them. The caps all measure the called for capacitance, even after 36 years, ESR is unknown. Is there a correlation between added resistance and DB of lost output of a driver ? IOW, will a .5 ohm resistor on the midrange cap attenuate the driver .5 db, more, or less ?

It doesn't really matter...just be consistent with it. Shall it be a non inductive resistor,or will it matter ? Or, play with both ?

I remember when Solens first came out, all the Speaker Builder Guys were using them. They were Big Medicine at one time. But you know the flavor of the month always changes. I wonder who really makes Solens and Sonicaps? I wonder if it is Bennic or ASC ? I was reading that some capacitor makers will make you your OWN line of boutique caps JL !!! Heck yeah, and the minumum order requirements are not as bad as you might think either. I have an idea JL, I will make call my Capacitors the "Trim Line" Caps, and they will have a variable resistor built right into the Cap ! You want old vintage paper in oil sound, no problem, just dial in some ESR, want some "Mylar Fuzz" ? set it for about .1ohm, might even have double spreadable legs on each side the capacitor so ya can dial in a little inductance too ? Oh, and lets not forget to have a hollow second case surrounding the cap, so we can add sand, tar, lead shot, or Epoxy ? That is real important JL! If we submit the caps for a review, and the reviewer uses anything BUT Florida Beach Sand for damping the caps outer case, we can weasel out of a bad review ! .

I have no way to test for ESR, but I have always wondered if 2 capacitors were electrically identical in every respect, would they sound the same ? I found this test of 3 capacitors. Bob Crites will Love This ? Capacitors: Sonic Craft Sonicap Gen. 1 vs. VH Audio V-Cap OIMP vs. RELCAP Multicap vs. Mundorf Silver/Oil Date: August, 2005 Note: Please see Update below for the RELCAP Multicap. Listening to capacitors. Hour after hour. One friend said I needed to get a life. Another waited anxiously for the results of the listening tests between the Sonic Craft Sonicap Generation 1 film capacitor and the VH Audio V-Cap OIMP (Oil Impregnated Metallized Polypropylene) capacitor. The value under test was 12 µF, and the evaluation platform was the high-pass crossover in Magnepan 10.1 speakers, which use just a single capacitor for the tweeter giving a first-order, 6 dB per octave crossover. The Sonicap received many months of normal use for break-in, and the V-Cap was run-in with continuous music signals for approximately 500 hours, exceeding the manufacturer's 400 hour recommendation. The speakers were powered by either a Conrad Johnson Premier 350 solid state amplifier or a pair of Quicksilver V4 mono tube amplifiers. The source was a Kuzma Stabi Reference turntable, Graham Phantom tonearm, Zyx Airy 3x-SB and Ortofon Jubilee cartridges going through Graham IC-70 phono cable to a Conrad Johnson Premier 15 Series 2 phono preamplifier containing Jensen step-up transformers, Oritek X-2 interconnects, Conrad Johnson Premier 17LS2 and Placette Passive preamps, and PS Audio Resolution Reference and Acoustic Zen Satori speaker cables. As you can see in the images, the Sonicap arrives in a plain white plastic package, while the V-Cap is dressed to the nines in a metallic silver jacket. The Sonicap cost $19.60 each; the V-Cap cost $81.59. The test methodology was the following: The V-Caps were tacked to the Magnepans' terminal plates with clear RTV (99B) and the Sonicap was "hanging in the air" above it. The signal ends of both caps were soldered in place. The other ends were connected in their turn via a 4" lead of 14 ga Teflon insulated wire, the same wire used when I rewired the speakers. I would listen to one cap, then unsolder one end and solder in the other cap. After a number of changes, I could dis- and re-connect both caps in about 90 seconds. The test music included the following: "Danse Macabre, Op. 40". Witches' Brew. Saint-Saëns. RCA Victor Red Seal LSC-2225 "What Kind of World". Speaking in Melodies. Michael Ruff. Sheffield Labs TLP-35 HQ "Foggy Mountain Breakdown". After Midnight. The McNeely-Levin-Skinner Band. Sheffield Labs TLP-30 On all three musical selections, and several others, it did not take long to make the following observations. Please see the Sonic Rating Scale for more information regarding the magnitude of differences. For most observations of the differences between the two capacitors, the magnitude was classified as "medium". It would take approximately 4-5 alternations between the two caps to reliably identify the type and magnitude of differences. After that, it was easy to choose a favorite. The V-Cap seemed to have slightly more extended highs and the reverberant trails lasted just a bit longer. A VERY small difference was noted for this quality. On the Michael Ruff LP, it was easier to discern that there were several background singers present when the Sonicap was installed. The V-Cap blended these voices into a single apparent voice. Also on the Ruff cut, the cymbals often degenerated into white noise with the V-Cap. The Sonicap made a more convincing presentation on Foggy Mountain Breakdown that the lead banjo, on the right, was being played by a living person because his finger work was easier to discern and follow. This was similar to the difference between a great CD and a good LP. The latter is simply more believable. In Danse Macabre, the percussion, and triangle in particular, rang just a bit truer with the Sonicap. The triangle had a denser, more complex harmonic texture. Also with the Sonicap, it was much easier to hear that many violins were playing instead of just one, although the V-Cap presented stage depth and acoustic space just as well. The horn section was revealed to be mid-stage right with either cap, but the V-Cap gave a hint of a blatty saxophone-type sound to the trombones that the Sonicap totally avoided. After repeated listening to the first 90 seconds of this cut, it seemed as if the V-Cap inserted a subtle obscuration to the high frequencies that was absent, or at least noticeably and significantly reduced when the Sonicap was in-circuit. Hearing farther into a cleaner soundstage, one that presented each instrument more cleanly and believably, was a consistent trait of the Sonicap. One of the tests with any recording used during the comparison period was a very subjective test of the maximum loudness that was comfortable without harshness or that feeling of stress we often hear when a system is playing too loudly. With either the Conrad Johnson Premier 17LS2 and Placette preamps, exactly repeatable volume settings were possible with either amplifier. The Sonicap consistently allowed louder listening without strain. In fact, when using the 700 watt (into 4 ohms) Premier 350, I was surprised to notice how loudly the little Magnepan 10.1s could play without strain, or suffering a melt down. It was possible to listen longer, and louder if desired, with the Sonicaps installed before any hint of listener fatigue began to be an issue. This comparison can be a lot shorter than a regular component review because only half of the audio frequency range is affected! The results were consistent and significant: Sonicap Generation 1 caps, when used in this application, had higher resolution, lower apparent distortion, and offered greater listening enjoyment than V-Cap OIMP capacitors. In any other application, YMMV! UPDATE, March 2006. Let's talk about the Reliable Capacitor Multicap. The Multicap was used in a slightly different speaker: the Magnepan MG10. The MG10 is an older model than the MG10.1. It is taller than the MG10.1 by 10 inches, and due to its larger radiating area, can play louder without sounding like it is approaching the maximum output. Other than that difference, the two speakers sound very similar. Like the MG10.1, the MG10 also uses a single capacitor for the high-pass (tweeter) crossover, but the value is 8 µF instead of the MG10.1's 12 µF capacitor. For this comparison, the very kind folks at Reliable Capacitors (RELCAP) sent a pair of 8 µF PPFX-S, which are polypropylene film & tin foil, and a pair of .01 µF RTX, which are polystyrene film & tin foil. The RTX caps will be used in parallel with the larger value caps as a bypass. More on the bypass concept later. After 200 hours of break-in on the Multicaps, it was time to get down to work. Using the same methodology as above, this time comparing the 8 µF Sonicap to the Multicap (without bypass), it seemed the two capacitors were very similar in overall tonal balance. Once satisfied that there were no large differences, I left the Multicaps in place for extended listening. After about an hour, I felt I should check the stylus on the Ortofon Jubilee phono cartridge because it sounded exactly like a worn out needle with high frequencies that were rough and had a lot of grainy "white noise" content instead of clear, clean and airy sounds. The stylus looked fine, so I substituted a just broken-in van den Hul Condor XCM cartridge (review in progress). Now whatever ideas you may have about this cartridge, there is no way you could call the high frequencies grainy or even hinting at that dreaded white noise sound. However, that quality was consistently audible with the Multicaps, but not with the Sonicaps. This result was quite a surprise because the VTL TL5.5 preamplifier, which uses Multicaps and made me want to try them for this mini-survey, is one of the cleanest, most open sounding components I have heard. This just shows that blanket recommendations are not possible in this hobby where component interactions can completely surprise us with unexpected results. Mundorf Silver/Oil. Many of you suggest that this is the best crossover capacitor available. I agree. It took a long time - about 250 hours - to settle in, although the sound was fairly stable after about 100 hours. For about $85 each (8 µF), the silver/oil caps offer a very small improvement over the $16 Sonicap across almost the entire audio frequency range. The bass is just a hair more powerful and detailed, soundstage depth increases slightly, and treble purity also improves a bit. The midrange is equivalent with either the Mundorf or the Sonicap Gen 1. Please note that these were small improvements and although present, did not increase my enjoyment of the music or reveal new detail that was not already presented with the Sonicap. Bypass capacitors. In addition to the Multicap RTX, I have tried either .1 µF or .01 µF bypasses from Sonicap (Gen I and the Teflon® Platinum cap), Hovland, AudioCap, and Wima. In every case the results were similar. Let me digress for a minute or so (depending on how fast you read) and talk about crossovers. In the simple first order high-pass crossovers we are using for this capacitor comparison, the value of the single capacitor, together with the impedance of the loudspeaker driver, determines the crossover frequency. An 8 µF capacitor with the 4 ohm impedance of the Magnepan quasi-ribbon tweeter gives a crossover frequency of about 5000 Hz (1/2πRC). A smaller value capacitor (for example, 4 µF instead of 8 µF) will raise the crossover frequency. If we used only the very small value .1 µF capacitor without the 8 µF, we would hear nothing because the crossover frequency is now almost 400,000 Hz. Even a dog would not hear it! So why use a bypass at all? There are actually components of very high frequencies in some audio waveforms. Some are high order harmonics. If you think of a square wave, the right angles at the top of the wave are extremely high in frequency. Sometimes there are high frequency components in very fast audio sounds, for example, the instantaneous tap of a drum stick on a cymbal. These are the sounds that should be "helped" by including a small-value bypass capacitor in a high pass crossover. Well, I don't think so. If the 8 µF capacitor blocks frequencies below 5000 Hz and passes frequencies above 5000 Hz, why do we need what is actually another crossover for the same tweeter, but operating at frequencies already passed by the big cap? I am sure engineers have a very good reason, and a couple of them have tried to educate me on this subject. I respect the science and electrical theory on this subject, and my technical background helps me to understand it fairly well. But there is one small problem: the bypasses all sound bad! They add a quality that at first sounds like an increase in air and detail, but after a couple of hours becomes an intrusive harshness and discontinuity in the upper treble. Remove the bypass: all of the detail is present but without that grating and annoying sound. The high frequencies are cleaner, smoother, and much more enjoyable. It doesn't matter if the bypass cap is Teflon®, polystyrene, or common polypropylene, the results are very similar. And to be avoided. Conclusion: Of the three capacitors evaluated in this application, the Mundorf silver/oil was objectively the best performer. It provided the best clarity, resolution, and transparency. However, if I was doing this project without the agenda of evaluating different capacitors, I would use the Sonicap Gen I because the small improvements I heard when substituting the Mundorfs were really only apparent on direct comparison. The Sonicaps offered the same level of musical enjoyment for far lower cost. Happy listening.

I know this has been mentioned several times before, but you're better off using a high quality cap w/low ESR in series with a resistor, rather than a bad cap with high ESR. Yes, I was told that. I guess I am a project specific type of guy ? The E/V Sentry III's I am working on did not respond to a matched ESR Cap changeout. They had all mylars and NPE in them stock, I replaced with new Mylars and NP Electrolytics, and the change was not to my liking, so I am waiting on very low ESR Caps, see how that sounds ?

The B&W Matrix 801's I just sold are an excellent speaker, just not able to show off my Monster Subs and Home Theatre setup the way I want. My main room is very large, need more efficiency. My second room is very small, the 801's simply overload that room. I though it a sin to have such a good speaker wasting away, so I found an audiophile home for them, and made a new audio buddy ! Both the Cornwall 2's, and the Sentry's are the right size to look decent in between the 73 inch DLP TV, and the subs in the corners. They fill up the space well. I put all new caps in the Cornwall 2's, but I don't care for them. They are not even close to the Sentry III's in sound quality, in my room. I really was looking for Altec 19's when the Sentry's fell in my lap. Out a foot and a 1/2 from back wall, they image very well, with good depth, and an uncanny ability to put sounds well outside the plane of the speakers. I love the ST 350 tweeters in them, they have a precision sound, not quite the extension of the 801's tweeters, but a nice sounding tweeter overall. Remember, they are 36 years old, LOL They show enough potential since they arrived to become my main project, and are a pleasure to work on. The whole upper back of cabinet unscrews and lays down to reveal the crossover, and it is all hard wired to terminals, piece of cake to do cap swaps. As far as comparing to the 801 goes, I have done comparasions, both with new, and old caps in them. Overall, they are not quite as good, but what is ? Nothing I have owned in the past 10 years has been as good, so this is no suprise. But the Sentry's deviate from the perfection of the 801 in ways I can live with, and the 801's can never equal their ability to play loud w/o strain. I am beginning to think the Sentry's will stay, but may require just a tad of Digital EQ to get them"perfect" We shall see, I am hoping the new caps I ordered will be here by this weekend, so I can slap em in, and see how they sound. The 3 10uf poly caps I will be using to make one 30uf cap will have ultra low ESR, as do the Solens. It will be interesting to see what happens ? If it was not for this home theatre stuff, I would get me a Yamaha Digital Crossover, and Tri Amp the Sentry's !!!

Solens, Huh ? This will be my first go round with them on horns, since i ordered em from madisound to go along with the Surplus Polys. I have owned about every Klipsch Heritage speaker known to man, my personal favorites were the original Forte's. I re capped them with all ERSE Polys, and they were fantastic, just too small looking in my large room. I currently have Cornwall 2's I re did, but along came the E/V Sentry III's, and the Cornwall 2's have been pushed out of the way. I have 5 other pairs of speaker besides these, including big Polk SDA SRS 2B's, JBL S 412 P's, Tannoy D 50's, Vintage Pioneer Horns, and some bookshelf Pro Monitors, cant even fremember what they are, LOL I JUST sold my B&W Matrix 801's. I also just got finished really listening to the E/V Sentry III's. I placed the old caps back in them, except I used 2 new 1uf Rat Shack Mylars combined to make 2uf on the ST 350 tweeters, guess what ? They are not accurate anymore, musical yes, accurate, no ! The 36 year old high ESR caps are veiling the big E/V's, softening the sound, kind of like a Jalapeno Pepper coated in Honey. I have gone into home theatre in a big way, and crave the efficiency and jump factor of a big horn speaker. I am hoping the Electro Voice Sentry III's will be the speaker I seek, when I am finished with them. The Cornwall 2's were a big disappointment. If I was just listening to 2 ch, the little Tannoy D 50's are probably my favorites. They are ungodly musical little bastards, image like no tomorrow, and there is just "something about" the Tannoy dual concentric driver that sucks you into it's game. I cross them over at 80 hz with a crossover done in the digital domain, and they will play pretty loud. They are tiny, 1/2 the size of the small Forte's, so look even more stupid in my room, but they put a smile on my face. The JBL S 412 P's are a real sleeper of a speaker, they just do not have the last degree of wild 3 dimensional imaging of the B&W 801's or the Tannoys. They image more like Klipsch Heritage Speakers do, a wall of sound, but no real 3 dimensionality to write home about. But they are very musical, do well on voice, and have a well matched center channel speaker i also own to make their case. If the Sentry III's do not get to where I want them to be, I will probably just go back to the JBL S 412 P'. I was very happy with them as a good compromise between musicality,, and home theatre performance, before the efficiency bug bit me in the azz. You see JL, 2 of my room corners are occupied by what looks like dual overgrown K Horn bass bins. These are 9 cu ft ported boxes using an EBS alignment, they are 3db down at 14 hz. Each box has a 15 inch Cadence Wild Beast downward facing driver firing through a slot formed by the floor/wall/corner intersection. These 4 ohm super long x max drivers have true 2500 rms on each of them at 91 db efficiency. I had a pair of HSU subs, replaced em with a pair of SVS Ultra Cylinders, and built these to beat the SVS. They are capable of truly frightening bass JL, and most of my speakers are simply unable to "play over the top" of them for long, if at all. Horns are my only hope for a true "scare the chit out of you" home theatre system. It has been an interesting journey so far, and I so much want the E/V Horns to work out, I really do.

Exactly! Al Klappenburger here is doing a test on Tweeter Distortion, and suprisingly enough some tweeters with not so good distortion specs sound great. Me, I don't care how it measures, I care about how it sounds. I tried the same type of new caps to replace the old caps in my E/V Sentry III's, did not care for the sound, so figured I would try some low ESR Caps. If these don't work, I will keep going, until I get my sound. The Sentry III's never sounded Bad with any cap change I have done, they just lost some majic that I know is there. What are you using for speakers JL, and what is the state of your crossover ? Has it been changed out, or had the caps refreshed yet?

I posted in the surplus capacitors thread the result of a test done on the 10uf Madisound Surplus Poly Caps, they are low ESR, except up at 10K, but I will not be using them up that high.

Here is some more from that same thread. This guy maintains that ESR is not as important as we think. Quote: The esr of capacitors isn't so critical because their reactance is so high at low frequency. For instance 3.3uF at 100Hz has a reactance of 482 ohms so an ohm of ESR doesn't really make much difference. Even at 10KHz, the reactance is 4.8ohms. Not to say it's not important, it needs to be taken in context and of course, it's the opposite for inductors, ESR is the essence of inductance. This is a good point, and one to which I will have to give some thought. The whole motive behind these tests was to find out whether it would be preferable to replace some rather large 92.5uf value electrolytics with film capacitors in the NHT M3.3. These capacitors are in series with the mid-bass drivers, so it seemed intuitive to use the lowest ESR available. What I did not consider, as you have pointed out, is that the ESR is a fraction of the reactance at the frequencies of interest (100-300 Hz). Impedance = Resistance + Reactance Reactance of Capacitor = 1/(2*pi*frequency*capacitance) Measured Impedance of 96.9uF Capacitor at 100Hz = 16.96 Ohms Calculated Reactance of 96.9uF Capacitor at 100Hz = 16.42 Ohms Equivalent Series Resistance = Impedance - Reactance Equivalent Series Resistance of 96.6uF Capacitor at 100Hz = 0.54 Ohms Impedance difference due to Equivalent Series Resistance = 100*(1-(16.42/16.96)) = 3.18% Not as small of a difference as I had originally suspected, but still gives validity to your point. I would like to simulate this non linear resistance in a crossover schematic, to see how much error the ESR of a capacitor could introduce in the frequency response of the filter. Good day all, David

Thats good to know JL, never tried Solens on horns before. IF you do decide to break down and spend the 60 cents on the 10UF Surplus Polys, please hook them up to the ESR Tester, and let everyone know what they really are ? You can google TYEE Capacitors, they are out of Fullerton, California. They have complete PDF files on their products, and it looks pretty decent quality. Hey JL, lookey what I just found ? Seems the Madisound Surplus TYEE 10uf Poly Cap is very low ESR ? Non-Polar Electrolytic vs. Polypropylene Film Capacitors This isn't what you think! While there certainly are subjective preferences on these parts, I would like to present to this community the results of some tests I have performed today. The parts tested are all currently available, value oriented parts from Madisound, Parts-Express, or MCM. -Measurements were made using the HP 4192A Impedance Analyzer (Calibrated this year).Three measurement frequencies were used: 100Hz, 1kHz, 10kHz. -Signal voltage was 1VRMS. -The series equivalent circuit model was used for calculations. -Measurements presented are the capacitance, equivalent series resistance, and dissipation factor respectively. 3.3uF Panasonic Polypropylene Film 200V (Madisound surplus) 0.10 kHz 3.313 uF <0.1 Ohm <0.01% DF 1.00 kHz 3.306 uF <0.01 Ohm <0.01% DF 10.0 kHz 3.31 uF 0.005 Ohm 0.1% DF 3.3uF Bennic XPP 250VDC (Which are on sale this month at MCM) 0.10 kHz 3.313 uF <0.1 Ohm <0.01% DF 1.00 kHz 3.306 uF <0.01 Ohm <0.01% DF 10.0 kHz 3.28 uF 0.002 Ohm <0.1% DF 4.7uF Non-Polar Electrolytic 100V (From Parts-Express) 0.10 kHz 4.989 uF <5 Ohm 1.45% DF 1.00 kHz 4.826 uF 0.93 Ohm 2.8% DF 10.0 kHz 4.7 uF 0.264 Ohm 7.8% DF 5.0uF GE Polypropylene 400VDC (Surplus from Madisound) 0.10 kHz 4.93 uF 0.001 Ohm 0.1% DF 1.00 kHz 4.92 uF <0.01 Ohm <0.01% DF 10.0 kHz 4.93 uF <0.01 Ohm <0.01% DF 10uF Madisound Surplus 100VDC 0.10 kHz 10.1 uF <0.01 Ohm <0.01% DF 1.00 kHz 10.07 uF <0.01 Ohm 0.04% DF 10.0 kHz 10.1 uF 0.003 Ohm 0.2% DF 10uF Dayton MPT 250VDC (From Parts-Express) 0.10 kHz 10.005 uF <0.1 Ohm <0.01% DF 1.00 kHz 9.98 uF <0.01 Ohm 0.03% DF 10.0 kHz 9.99 uF 0.001 Ohm 0.1% DF 12uF Bennic XPP 250VDC (Which are on sale this month at MCM) 0.10 kHz 12.05 uF <0.1 Ohm <0.01% DF 1.00 kHz 12.03 uF <0.01 Ohm <0.01% DF 10.0 kHz 12.04 uF 0.001 Ohm <0.1% DF 12uF Bennic Non-Polar Electrolytic (From Madisound) 0.10 kHz 12.675 uF 3.45 Ohm 2.7% DF 1.00 kHz 12.12 uF 0.40 Ohm 3.0% DF 10.0 kHz 11.74 uF 0.073 Ohm 5.4% DF 31uF Bennic Non-Polar Electrolytic (From Madisound) 0.10 kHz 32.3 uF 1.60 Ohm 3.2% DF 1.00 kHz 30.5 uF 0.241 Ohm 4.6% DF 10.0 kHz 29 uF 0.057 Ohm 10% DF 33uF Non-Polar Electrolytic (From Parts-Express) 0.10 kHz 33.9 uF 1.78 Ohm 3.8% DF 1.00 kHz 32.1 uF 0.170 Ohm 5.4% DF 10.0 kHz 31 uF 0.047 Ohm 9% DF Impressions. Non-polar electrolytics are pretty lossy compared to polypropylene. I have always heard that, but never quantified it. Notice how the capacitance drops with frequency and the dissipation factor rises in the electrolytic capacitors. Electrolytics are not very linear with frequency, we see a 10% change from 100Hz to 10000Hz! (this does NOT imply they cause non-linear distortion due to this fact, please don't misunderstand). The polypropylene capacitors by comparison are fairly linear in capacitance with frequency and most have dissipation factors too low to reliably measure. Notice the high series resistance of the electrolytics compared to polypropylene. This does not seem to me to be a negligible amount of resistance in crossover design, after all, don't we model inductors with this much series resistance? I do not have experience with crossover design software beyond Speaker Workshop, and do not know if any of them can model the non-linear resistance of an electrolytic capacitor. It would seem to me that this would be particularly important for midbass drivers in a 3 or more way. The Qts of the driver-enclosure system will be affected by this series resistance. Anyone else care to comment on this? Regards, David

Oh, sorry about that Dean.

Thats good to know JL, never tried Solens on horns before. IF you do decide to break down and spend the 60 cents on the 10UF Surplus Polys, please hook them up to the ESR Tester, and let everyone know what they really are ? You can google TYEE Capacitors, they are out of Fullerton, California. They have complete PDF files on their products, and it looks pretty decent quality.