Al Klappenberger

Guys, I think we are into one of those many unwinnable and age old argument entirely dependent on ones point of view! We all just have to agree to disagree. The objective here is just to develop another possibility. To each, his own, and all that sort of stuff! Besides, all this was really aimed at the Khorn, not the Jub. Al K.

Tom, "You are raising the question of "what is a Jubilee". In my book it is more than just a bass bin." That's exactly right. I suppose it is what Klipsch says it is! I'm sure Klipsch doesn't care much for what is being done with it by the hackers, but from my point of view, and those of us building clones, it's an improved woofer. That makes the top end just as much a DIY project as a CornScala! How many of use have access to the official design drawings of the Jub bass bin anyhow? How many of them would admit it? Al K.

Tom, The Jub woofer is simply a horn loaded woofer. You can stick whatever top end you want on it. If you want a CD top end, do it! I simply don't do the required equalizers. I believe they are best done using active circuits. Passive equalizers just screw things up. Simple equalizers are lossey beasts and screw up the impedance seen by the amp. Constant impedance equalizers have twice the parts and are impractical. This makes my networks fine for either the conventional horns or CD horns. Put an active equalizer upstream from a speaker using a CD horn and a good crossover and you have a much better system than a passive crossover that contains equalizers. Besides, you can adjust a stand-along equalizer to you taste and adjust it anytime you want. A passive needs to be done once and installed in the speaker. It has to be right the first time. From what I have seen from the vast majority of network designs, it won't be! The Elliptic tractrix is simply another choice, for any speaker. Dave's objective is to choose a good driver for this particular horn, or others. The B&C DCX50 coaxial worked better with this horn than it did with the Bruce Edgar type horns we have been using. The possibilities are simply getting wider, and I think that's good! [<)] Shawn, It's nice to see the face of your SD380 analyzer. It brings back memoirs! I sold my SD375 on eBay and now have an HP 3563a. Al K.

Any correctly designed crossover, no matter the order, will have constant impedance! There is a design program downloadable from the same web site were the measurement procedure is described. As long as you use the same order on the highpass as on the lowpass, it will be constant impedance. The woofer Le counts as one of the elements to the impedance, but not to the filtering function. You should design for n=3 which will give you two parts in the lowpass and 3 in the highpass. This is the configuration I recommend. AL K.

Try it mounted both ways. I bet you won't hear a difference! Al k.

Why not go up to 2nd order? Al K.

I may have just missed it, but is the driver supposed to be a K33 clone? Also, the 1st order filter in the Universal is just not effected much by value changes. This is why it's "universal"! I wouldn't fool with it unless you are going to go to at least a 2nd order filter (12 dB / octave). Al K.

My personal opinion is that it's B.S.! If an air wound inductor in a crossover network is placed near the magnetic filed of a driver, an unshielded woofer maybe, a signal would be induced in the inductor as it vibrates, but it would be small and would be totally overwhelmed by signal applied to the network from the amp. I doubt a cap would be any more susceptible to this kind of induction that a simple wire. It's the sort of thing you just forget about and look to more serious things to improve your system. Like spacing your speaker cables off the floor with Styrofoam cups spaced every 12 inches! [bs]

Thanks for the good news. I got a set of Forte II setting here. I'll be developing a network for them in a couple of weeks. Al K.

The impedance of the K33 driver does change a bit with different frequencies but it generally around 6 - 7 Ohms in series with about 1 mHy voice coil inductance. It's not extremely critical anyhow. The general rule of thumb is an error of 1.5:1 or less is good. That would mean a filter designed for 6 Ohms could be terminated by anything between 4 to 9 Ohms and perform ok. 158 uF is the correct value to resonate the K33 voice coil inductance with if you are looking to design for a 400 Hz. crossover. Al K.

55, The problem with the 400 Hz crossover for the Belle is the size. It would require raising the top like I had to do to fit the Martinelli Trachorn 400 into the Belle. A smaller horn makes much more sense. The Belle and LaScala woofer has no problem going up to 500 or even higher. Why force a 400 Hz horn into it unless you only wanted to manufacture a single horn for everything. That is what I was doing. Al K.

all of the Eliptracs will be 2 inch with optional reducers from 2" to1.4" or 2" to 1" I want to point out again that this will NOT be a jury rig compromise like grafting a conical section on the square throat of an Edgar type horn. The extension will have a true and correct tractrix taper. It will simply be round from the 2 inch point back to the driver, but still a tractrix expansion. AL K.

It seems that most of you think I should have kept my grips to myself. Considering how this has evolved, I have to agree. I don't mind bowing out of this thread if it will allow you proceed to post the plots. But, it seems that I am not the only one here now with a personal vendetta. It looks like you are developing one against me! Don't be like the kid in elementary school show-and-tell class that takes his toy home because another kid doesn't play well with others! Post the plots! BTW: I would like to know why AK has the policy of not allowing a "guest" to view attachments anyhow. What are they trying to do? What's the reason for that policy? It's not required here. To the point of where to post, it depends on the subject. If it's Klipsch specific, it's wasted over there. The Klipsch people are HERE! I think the Crites tweeter was intended as a direct replacement for the K77, but that tweeter is also a EV T-35 which was used in a bunch of speaker brands. So it's debatable where best to post it. I think the answer is BOTH places. So do it! Don't go away just because I messed up the thread! Before I go, I might point out that I did a big review of the CT125 tweeter a while ago (2006). Here's the thread: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/71834/704985.aspx#704985 Al K.

I think it was a bad idea to have posted them on the AK forum. Very few people interested in Klipsch speakers will ever see them over there. As to a personal Vedanta, you are probably right. I do have one! As I think back on how the final exchanges between me and "Grumpy" went, I would have told the guy off in no uncertain terms rather then being agreeable. It still eats at my craw and it was several years ago! The bottom line over there is that they want PAID advertisers! Anyone like me who sells related stuff is EXPECTED to pay. I actually thought about doing it too. It would have been a total wast of money! The Klipsch community is HERE, not there. Al K.

Now we are really getting somewhere! [<)] Al K

Mike, I'm using JBL 2426h drivers on 1-inch Edgar type wood tractrix horns. It's quite good. Just don't use the K400! ANYTHING but that! Al k.

Peter, I assume you are talking about a plane wave tube. That only shows what the driver would do on a perfect horn. I think what happens when you combine the driver on a real horn is what counts. What off-axis testing I did on Bob's tweeter showed it was quite good enough to replace the K77. My ability to do polar plots leaves a lot to be desired, so I would like to see someone eases plots. Al K.

My problem with AK is there total intolerance of anyone like me who had done research that leads to a product that he makes. They and other narrow-minded people assume that such a person must never mention that product or the research that led to it because it represents a "sales promotion". Such people believe only a third person, who knows very little about it, may mention it on the forum. That amounts to the blind leading the blind. The very people who know a subject best get muzzled. To make a long story short, I got accused of abusing the forum and since I found the AK forum of little value to Klipsch people anyhow, I decide to actually start abusing the forum since I was being accused of it anyhow. I decided to use the "private message" feature to directly promote my stuff to people who posted relevant questions just to see how long it lasted. "Grumpy" was actually snooping into the private messages! It "lasted" about 2 days before I was kicked off! I don't miss the place a bit! I needed that form as a sails tool as much as an Eskimo needs a refrigerator! That little adventure, and a few like-minded members here, are the reasons behind my "signature" you see below. The Klipsch moderators are a lot more sensible! EDIT: The signature is aimed at the "like-minded members", BTW! AL K.

I suppose you have to kiss Grumpy's posterior to qualify for those privileges! [+o(] Al K.

Look at the red line on the schematic. It is shown shorting out the inductor L3. I suspect someone has simply disconnected L3 and replaced it with a wire. See if the two dead wires go the the inductor. If it does, there is nothing to fix. The entire network is outmoded anyhow though! Al K.

Sandy, I good crossover doesn't degrade the sound. A huge horn trying to disperse tweeter sized wavelengths doesn't work well. I'll take a good 3-way system any day. Al k.

I am one of the people who will not bother with AK. I used to be a member. I had a major altercation with a narrow-minded moderator there who calls himself "Grumpy". A very fitting screen name! [8o|] I would like to see the plots. Al k.

"I am thinking a smaller horn designed to cross at 500 hz would be better than adapting" I agree, but a good reason to make it expandable is to allow for later upgrades. Even a 500 Hz elliptic horn could be designed for a 1 inch driver and separated at the 2 inch point where a flange would allow either a 2 inch driver or an adapter down to 1.4 or 1 inch to be bolted on. I found that there is no difference in the taper so long as the area from 2 inch diameter back to the smaller driver is round. The elliptic mouth can transition down to round at the 2 inch diameter point. The adapter could have a flange and bolt pattern exactly emulating a 2-inch driver. That would not be a compromise at all. It would be a true tractrix expansion all the way. Another reason to make it expandable is to limit manufacturing costs. Only a single horn would need to be made for each cutoff frequency. It would be made for 2 inch drivers and adapters down to 1.4 and 1 inch offered separately. Start with the K55 on the 1 inch adopter and move to a 2-inch driver later by removing the adapter. Al K.

Dave, I think a couple of people are trying to tell you something! Al K.

It is neither! It is 6 to 7 Ohms in series with 1 mHy voice coil inductance. Al K.