Josh B

Ah! I hadn’t realised. Many thanks. Will do

Hello everybody. Having been a reader of these threads for some years this is my first post - forgive the essay. I am looking for some advice on building a system. I run a sound system which currently comprises of two pairs of khorns run with Leben amps, it’s very much a Loft style party which regularly finds itself in different venues. We set the system up each time we throw an event and take it all down again at the end of the day. Unfortunately the system is being split up due to one of us moving away. So I intend to build more speakers. Three possibly five if I really fall down the hole. Klipschorns have historically been the speaker of choice for these parties as you can separate the HF above head height, the passive x-over means one amp per pair and although big the bins can be moved around easily enough. The downsides being you have to use them with false corners, you can’t tune it in anyway so phase coherence can be tricky. The application for the system is 2-300 people in a roughly 6mx5m rectangle. Ideally we would set up two stereo pairs in quadraphonic and one mono stack rear centre. One of the biggest issues is off axis listening, this is a room full of people opposed to an ideal listening point. Usually we set them up in a rectangle facing each other then toe each stack in to reduce standing waves, a basic approach but gets us quite far. There are four us on the build project with a combination of cabinet making/cnc/cad/making skills. I also work in a vintage hifi store in London called Audio Gold (well worth a visit if you find yourself on this side of the pond) and have good knowledge of a variety of equipment and how to set it all up. So we have some basis covered, however, we lack in real technical knowledge when it comes to speaker design. I’m finding myself on an infinite dive into these forums to figure out exactly what we should build and how to do it. Seeing as the system is set up in different locations under different circumstances often I know that I cannot strive for 100% accuracy. What I’m after is as close as I can get, something that doesn’t fatigue at -100db and can fill a large ish space without struggling. Main considerations 4:1 / Quad + mono set up ~200-300 people HF needs to be raised to head height Needs good polar coverage System is moved and set up in new spaces regularly Set up time Here are my thoughts so far; Option 1; Build some khorns with a few tweaks Modelling the LF bin is easy enough Design a tracktrix/hybrid horn using calculator/forum advice and cnc it Either buy Crites or Volti components & crossovers Fairly safe bet, all tried and tested combinations / specs, a known entity But have weaknesses, especially in the dance party application. I feel there are better options. Option 2; Build some jubilee clones From what I read K-402 is another world in comparison to the 400/401, this has me hooked. The 402 challenges seem to be; Buying horns or modelling them accurately Choosing a CD - Celestion or TAD “Phase plug extension” acoustic lens w/ Axi2050 or CD mount size/shape EQ/delay requirements The folded LF bin challenges; Choosing a design 2x11”, 2x15”, 1x15” + ported Choosing a driver and matching it to the design, ie chamber size - don’t understand the maths required here at all Accurately modelling a bass bin The size of the LF bins is a large issue - have to cart the things in and out of the living room every couple of months. 150kgs is not a practical object. Option 3; 402 horns with alternate bass cabs I feel pretty set on trying to build a 2-way system with 402 horns Simplicity, better phase coherence - it seems like the way forward It might be sacrilege but if the Jube LF cab is too big maybe there are alternative options. Option 4; MEH speakers Hard to pull off, some serious maths and precision involved - big sticking point Smaller and easier to move around I have heard them but only in PA application. This is a hifi setting. I am unsure if they will sound as hifi as I would like. As far as I can tell they aren’t as efficient and need some power to drive them. Currently using a 60w & 100w valve amp. Extras; Likely to build some additional subs in the future too. Any advice on designs appreciated. Questions; DSP vs active x-over vs Passive x-over ??? We are analogue at our core, the idea of introducing a digital processor doesn’t excite me. From what I gather a DSP seems like a necessity with Jubes? I understand the major benefits of being able to EQ, adjust x-overs and tuning - there is appeal here, I would like to learn how to technically tune a system - but the purist in me has doubts. I would also need to double the amount amps! What DSPs are recommended? I would need many outputs for a 5:1 Jube system if that’s the ultimate goal! Are the downsides of a passive x-over really so significant? Does anyone make one suitable for the Axi2050 or can anyone spec a circuit? I feel active x-overs are at the bottom of the list - if there is a good enough one maybe that could be a good solution for me? Am I correct in saying there is an essential delay requirement on a Jube? - making a DSP really the only way forward? Can anyone comment on the manoeuvrability of the jube bins, 150kgs really!? Sounds like a 4 person job? - I wonder if I can break it down into two pieces? Is there lighter versions? I’ve seen some 402s paired with Khorn LF cabs - with the Axi2050 you could cross at ~300hz which makes it quite a viable option, I guess usually the pros of the jube over the khorn win without question. Khorn bins are more faff for sure, but perhaps a practical option. Good idea? Are there any other LF folded horns I could consider? University classics? Is the HF roll off on the Axi2050 going to be an issue? Is EQ’ing this the best solution? If that airy sparkle is import what are my options? Can anyone comment on a MEH build - worth the hassle? I asked Chat GPT what it thought. It confirmed by leaning towards the 2 way jubilee build as the successor to the khorn and a more efficient speaker, simpler build than the MEH approach. Would love to know what some of you think of the project and what advice you may have to offer me. Here is a picture of our false corner and riser set up at the moment, just for reference. Thanks very much! Josh

something like that...

Scrap this. Turns out it was my pal who purchased the drivers! Don't suppose you can offer any insight to them James? - Did you agree with them or swap them out for something you prefer? Cheers Josh

Looks like these sold James? But thought I would double check that the sale went through... i'd buy them if not!