John Warren

I've attached a pix of the University Classic. This is similar in appearance to the horn Q-man is referring to. The woofer is located in the chamber to the right of the mid-horn.

kman1752-Try to order a pair of Klipschorns from Super Audio Video.

John P- it is a dual impedance voice coil. with one set of leads impedance varies between 4-8 ohms, with other set connected varies between 10-20. As a direct raditor this loudspeakers sound lousy (muddy). in a compression enclosure sounds very good.

Khorn58-I have limited data on the Trusonic 103LX: "Molded" conical cone, 2" VC, 4.5 lbs Alnico magnet, Fs 35Hz, 25W, comes in choice of 8, 16 or 32 ohm VC impedance, Shipping wt 27 lbs. Its a "vintage", heavy, low power driver with limited excursion. These drivers were designed in an era when 10W of amplifier power output was remarkable. You should experiment with a couple of K33 drivers from the LLC. Last I looked they were $200/pr. Im not a expert in the history of the Klipschorn but I believe that when EV liscensed the folded horn from PWK they set out to manufactured the the Klipschorn with all EV drivers which meant a special LF driver i.e. 15W-K bass unit. On paper the 15W-K has better "numbers" that the 103LX and, if weight means anything, weighs 14lbs more! Klipsch switch from Trusonic/University/Atlas to EV/EV/EV with new crossover around this time (mid fifties). The mid horn however was still a PWK creation. Also, the Trusonic 105LX was a lighter magnet weight, lower power, lower cost version of the 103LX. Shared the cone, basket. I almost purchased a pair of Klipschorns with these "lightweights" in the compression chamber. The dealer swapped out the 103s prior to my visit. Sometimes it pays to stop by an hour earlier.

John You could not hear a difference because you are not an audiophile. Only audiophiles can hear how the soundstage becomes "larger", the highs become "more airy" and the mids have less "honk", Also, the bass is "tighter" and even lower. Now go get a cup of Latte and listen again!!

$8900/pr. Whoever is closest wins a free pair? This message has been edited by John Warren on 01-25-2002 at 05:55 PM

The only design feature that was specified for the Klipschorn driver was that it have an Fs "as low as possible and preferably below 30Hz". Nothing fancy.

Great! Orginal or a photocopy?

As a piston, the 15WK is inferior. Lower Xmax (4 vs 6.7 mm), higher Fs (32 vs 27 Hz) and lower efficiency than K33 E. There is no nostalgia for the woofer in a folded unit, it is a piston. Push an EV 15WK in the range of the K33 E and you smell something burning. Early Klipschorns I have owned had 15WKs in them. I have swapped them out. The improvement in bass output is so significant that the 15WKs are in boxes collecting dust. In fact, part of the reason that the old drivers "sound" better is because the don't push the horn into spurious resonances. The EV unit brings a cast basket to the baffle throat that does stiffen but this is a second order benefit that is overshadowed by the inability of this driver to properly energize the horn throat at high SPLs. Just because these drivers bring stupidly high prices on ebay doesn't mean anything. People have more money then common sense. In fact, vintage audio "collectors" have some of the worse sounding gear I've ever heard (myself included). A driver that comes from the "vintage" days that makes sense in the folded unit is the University C15W. This is the only driver from the 60s that I am aware of that was developed specifically for a compression horn bass unit. Straight, conical cone, huge magnet (6 lbs of Alnico in a 20lb structure), low Fs (24Hz), double spider and decent power handling. Atttached is a comparison to the K 33E. This message has been edited by John Warren on 01-21-2002 at 07:04 PM

save your money, the 15W-K does not do as good a job as the K33-E.

Belle Klipsch There is no 2002 production of this speaker. production ceased in 1Q 01.

A real bargain here!! Contains the plans for the Imperial stand alone and built-in, the Onken enclosures and a few other cool things. I've seen this go for as high as $100 for an original. I've got three, don't need anymore. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1324062323

djk- your thoughts on pairing a couple of these (as direct radiators) with a Klipschorn bottom end?

you asked- why ruin a perfectly good set of speakers, even if they are LaScalas, should of left them in the condition PWK preferred. if PWK thought that easing the baffle edges was a "good" thing, he would have done it. the "decorative" routing job around the top panel does nothing but strain the glue joint by removing the structural constraint. punched a pretty large hole in the resale too. This message has been edited by John Warren on 01-05-2002 at 07:45 AM

Q- I still owe you some University lit. Just got back from unanticipated 2 week trip out of country. Will send info this week. John

ratboy-you certainly have a large room! 15K cubic ft is a room 50' x 30' x 10' high!!!

djk-JBL 2123J (16 ohm, 10" mid, 101db/W/m) for sale on JBL website. If you have experience with this driver, is it worth looking at? This message has been edited by John Warren on 12-29-2001 at 04:41 PM

magnet is bigger on the "A", more efficient.

what is this "question" asking?

I'll bite my tongue... This message has been edited by John Warren on 12-18-2001 at 08:28 PM

If what ESOTERIC MAN is saying is fact, then these are factory overstocks that the LLC released as a skidded lot of 150 pcs to PE. If I'm to believe the LLC, these woofers were tested at the factory, rejected and sent back to the supplier. The supplier has a contractual agreement with the LLC to destroy them. Instead, the supplier violated terms of a contractual agreement and sold them to Parts Express.

It seems odd to me that reject level is high enough that that a high volume dealer like Parts Express can market and sell them as a stand alone part number. Why is is it unreasonable to assume that your woofer supplier is just "breaking out" the woofer and selling direct? As a manufacturer, your driver rqmnts are strict because you need consistent results from driver to driver to insure replacability and consitent results. This makes perfect sense too me. For the DIYer, these rqmnts are moot since the box is designed around measured T/S parameters (not the other way around). You are implying that something devious ("smarmy") is going on at Parts Express, why?

From my trails, the type of driver used on the Edgar mid is important as is the mounting and the horn construction method. The Audax units I've made sound pretty good(a violin sounds like a violin). They are not the end all, I agree, but they reproduce (IMO) with more realism than the 2" compression drivers.

you need to hear an Edgar midrange horn driven by an Audax PR170Z0.

an MA6100 (preamp section only) plugged into a couple of MC30s.