greg928gts
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Posts posted by greg928gts
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After nearly 2 hours of cutting you can see the basic idea. Each piece is dowel keyed for alignment.
Very cool Dave. Did that take 2 hours for the CNC to cut out? Just curious as to production time with a CNC. How much tending did you do once the machine started? In other words, were you able to do other things while it worked, or did you have to tend to it the whole time? Did you have to change tools during the 2 hour process?
Greg
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Greg, Were you not happy with the BMS Coax? As I mentioned before - the Orphean system was the best system I have heard to date by a long shot. I have been to many "HiFi" stores as well as attended few fancy audiofests/shows - and nothing came close to the Orpheans. Again - that is the reason why I sold every upgrade I had (Vtrac horns + ALK Universal and ES Crossovers). I want to save up my money for an Orphean system or hopefully Al's offering can be finalized soon enough and I can save for that. I don't know how much the networks/mods that BD-Design provides for the BMS is helping the system. Based on your opinion of the BMS coax, it seems like a lot may have to do with the network design BD-Design provides. I am really hopping that AL can provide similar results with a more budget driver like the B&C.
The BMS coaxial drivers sound very good in my Khorns. I attenuate them 3db and they are still a bit hotter than most people would consider "normal". I notice the high frequencies are more directional, coming from right and then left, versus with the Beyma's, where the high frequencies are sort of mixed better and filling in the middle. But this is not objectionable to me, just something I notice. In my own system (and I'm sure it would be different for everyone), my soundstage widens out and I don't get the pinpoint imaging that I get with the Beymas'. Again, this is not a problem for me, since my system tends to pinpoint image a little too much sometimes. So all in all, it's pretty nice.
There are two problems I have, and they're the reason I don't use them much, or recommend them to my customers. First, when you stand up and walk around, you can hear the high frequencies change and come and go. So I don't think the dispersion is correct. From what I know of horn design, this makes sense, since a horn that is as deep, and with a throat as relatively constricted as the Fc260 Volti Audio horn, the high frequencies would tend to beam down the center of the horn. This is why tweeter horns are generally much shallower and with a wider splay to the sides. It's why the K402 can work so well to cover high frequencies, even though it is designed to also cover all the way down to 500Hz, it's relatively shallow and wide open.
Second, the tweeter that's built into the BMS coax just doesn't sound quite as good as the Beyma CP25 to me.
So in the end, having the choice, I would rather have the slight bit of time alignment issue (that I'm not convinced is even audible to me) rather than compromise the quality of sound of the high frequencies, or the dispersion of those high frequencies.
What Al is saying about the high frequencies coming from the driver and not interacting with the sides of the horn much, and dispersing, is very interesting. I suspect that is happening to some degree in my system, which is why it's not a total bust. What we need is a wider and shallower horn to fit the top of the Khorn. Without a tweeter in the Khorn top, the horn can grow quite a bit in width. That would be an interesting experiment to put on the long-term list. Too busy right now.
Greg
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Here's what mine look like from the back. As you can see, Greg did a fantastic job closing in the backs.
Mike
One thing to note. The enclosed backs you see above are done with the plywood on the outside of the horn, not inside "within" the tops and bottoms. I think it is important not to decrease the size of the bass horn sections from the tailboard to the mouth.
The problem with this is that the top sections of the Khorn will stick out from the walls 3/4" when placed in a corner.
A lot of people have asked me for a kit to enclose the backs of Khorns. Tricky because they are all slightly different and it would require that the installer be able to tweak the pieces to make them fit.
Greg
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That's very cool Ki, wish I could have been there.
I actually have a Studer A820 in storage at my shop. Unfortunately it doesn't work, it's a parts machine for my friend Sergei over in Russia. He's got two of them over there, one that he uses.
Too bad, it would be nice to be able to use this.
Greg
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Isn't that a terrific article? I was reading through it the other night, understanding about half of it. A lot of work went into that. I think it will be referenced for years and years.
Do you think a Le Cleac'h expansion could be built in the Edgar style and still have most of the benefits? How much is the round horn playing into it?
The Emilar horn looks interesting. What IS the purpose of the unusual throat? Is that splained somewhere?
Greg
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"I preferred the separate tweeter"
So do Dr Bruce Edgar, Bill Woods, and I.
"Did you notice any beaming issues with the tweeter in the BMS coax driver on that system? "
It didn't sound quite right. Bill Woods says it tends to sound 'tizzy', and I would have to agree. It is especially noticeable on aplause and female vocals. Stuffing a small block of 30PPI foam in the throat really helped.
In my Khorns, the BMS coax sounds remarkably good at my seating position. I attenuate the tweeter 3db and it's probably still a little hotter than the average person likes, which happens to be the way I like tweeters. It's an average sounding compression tweeter, not nearly as nice sounding as the Beyma CP25 or the Ciare 1.26Nd.
In my system, at my listening position, the high frequencies are much more directional coming from the mids, which is not necessarily bad, just something I notice. I also notice that soundstage widens out and imaging is not as precise, which again, especially in my system, is not bad. I tend to get imaging that is too pinpoint at times, so a wider soundstage and imaging is nice.
The problem is, with music playing, when I stand up, I hear the tweeter sound change, and when I walk around the room, the tweeter comes in and out. It's quite obvious that the high frequencies are beaming out of the mid horn. It's just too deep a horn to properly disperse the high frequencies. This is the primary reason why I have not recommended using the coax in the V-Trac horn.
This is also why I asked if anyone had actually heard the recommended setup being discussed here. I think what we have here with these recommendations is an over-reaction to a perceived problem (time alignment) that ends up not sounding as good.
Greg
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dkj - I've heard that system that you included a picture of, all except for the Lecleache style tweeter horns. Those mid-bass cabinets were fantastic sounding. The 18" bass horns didn't sound good to me. I listened to the coax and then with a separate tweeter and I preferred the separate tweeter. But all in all the system was really good. The guy demostrating it for us also had a 10' screen projection system and we watched/listened to Pink! Wow, flexible is all I have to say on that subject!
Did you notice any beaming issues with the tweeter in the BMS coax driver on that system?
Greg
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I've had the BMS coaxial 4592ND compression drivers/V-Trac horns, in my Khorns for over a year now. Hardly a new idea.
My question to the forum is this. Has anyone here heard a pair of 2" outlet coaxial compression drivers in 2" throat midrange horns in a pair of Khorns?
Greg
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Ran across this in a Google search and thought it should be bumped again.
Greg
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Although this has nothing to do with refinishing the surface I would highly recommend considering closing the backs off to improve the bass response. If you have a pair that rough like in the pcitures shown and are going to refinish.........what the heck...........consider enclosing the backs.
I had always seen pictures of Khorns that had the backs enclosed on this forum over the years and I finally heard a pair this year and was blown away. A VERY substantial improvement. I never heard Khorns sound so good. They blew mine away and I had perfect corners and some hopped up networks.
Just something to consider.
I agree. Enclosing the backs improves the quality of the bass and also makes it possible to turn the bass horns within the corner slightly and still maintain decent corner loading.
What are your thoughts on enclosing the backs by inserting pieces of wood between the top and bottom, versus applying pieces on the outside of the bass horn? I've been asked about this many times, and I tell people that I'm not comfortable with the idea of reducing the horn size by 3/4" from top to bottom, which is what would be done if the 3/4" plywood pieces are installed inside the bass horn.
The difficulty with applying the plywood outside of the bass horn is that it pulls the whole cabinet away from the walls 3/4", which leaves a gap between the top sections and the walls.
It's a conundrum.
Greg
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If the Behringer sounds best at 6 db slopes...........what were you comparing it to?
Itself.
There are many times when I prefer the sound of 6db slopes to the other options available with the Behringer.
I'm still unsure about which sounds better on my system, active or passive. The Behringer really sounded nice the last time I had it on my system. Surprisingly nice. I was using three identical T-amps. I've had issues in the past with using different amplifiers and having the gains match up properly and/or the sound of the amplifiers changing as the volume levels changed, and having that skew the balance of the system.
Comparing the Behringer to ALK Universal networks is tough, because I'm tweaking the Behringer to provide what I think is a better combination of slopes and crossover points for my system. So if I think the Behringer is sounding better than the ALK Universals, is it because of it being active, or because of the different filters?
Greg
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All this talk of Ashly stuff made me take the plunge. I just picked up an Ashly 4.8SP....can't wait to get it hooked up.
I've noticed that most of these new processors don't offer 6db slope crossover functions like the Behringer does. While not always the case, I often find the 6db slope setting is the best sounding.
Greg
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Here's one from www.wendellfabrics.com
This is the only one they have that is close, but it's not really very close at all. But it does have that vintage look, and it's available in wide stock for a reasonable price.
Greg
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Thank you Budman.
Greg
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greg, off my 79's its 6 and 5/8
Thank you. Could I bother you to measure the width of the midrange horn cutout?
Greg
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Can someone please provide me with a measurement of the distance from the bottom of the midrange horn cutout to the top of the tweeter horn cutout on the front of the motorboard on stock Cornwall 1's?
Lol, I modified mine, so I no longer have these measurements.
Greg
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Nice work Jordan.
Koa is so Kool.
Greg
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Beautiful shop, great tools, perfect 'guy appeal'. I didn't know you had some many areas sectioned off. What are the overall dimensions?
I stole a couple ideas from you, hope you don't mind. And doesn't the MCM1900 system make the perfect workshop stereo? Do you just use that old Crown D300 for them?
Michael
Glad you got the heat going again.
The overall shop is 40' x 60' and with the upper level storage areas, there's about 3600 sq.ft. Still not enough!
I've got the little shop stereo tri-amped with one Crown Xti on all four bass horns (not enough power, he he), one Crown Xti on the mid-bass, and a Mac 2200 on the high end. The tweets are passively crossed over from the mids. I have severe bass cancellation problems in that room, but I'm not willing to change the location of the system, or add room treatment, so it is what it is. It gets lots of EQ. Still impressive when you crank it up - dust "snows" down on you from above!
Greg
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I could look and study that heating setup for hours just to see how its all put together.
LOL. That exactly the reason for putting it next to the sh*tter!
Greg
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Did you do a super clean-up for the video, or is the shop always that spotless?
It was cleaner than usual!
You're welcome to come to my shop anytime. Let me know next time you're in this neck of the woods.
Greg
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Not sure what to make of the above response
Sorry, I thought you were looking for ways to reduce the volume of the cabinet. The first two were meant to be funny, but spray foam might work well, without adding a lot of weight.
Greg
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A brick? Bottle of water? LOL
Spray foam?
Greg
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Yes, only in my house it's "Bridezillas" and "Operation Repo".
I just go to the shop!
Greg
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I made a video last night of my shop. First time I've used a video camera, and it's a cheap one, so please forgive the low quality.
But I thought some of you here might like to see my shop.
Greg
Belle internal wiring question
in Technical/Restorations
Posted
I'm making a new internal wiring kit for a Belle V-Trac customer, and I need to know what the connections are for the woofer wires. The wire disappears through a hole in the bottom of the tophat and then connects to the woofer on top of the bass bin. Can anyone help with this?
Greg