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Mike, I don't identify with the recent Nashville extrusions, but am quick to acknowlege that there are copious treasures in country music. You don't mention bluegrass, a rich and integral aspect of the genrethe roots where many of the real gems are to be found. Are you thinking of bluegrass as a completely separate genre? "Will The Circle Be Unbroken" is a timeless collection (even though it was recorded in the '70s) that set should be in the library of anyone even remotely interested in the roots of American music. Hank was nearly as prolific and influential as Irving Berlin. One of my personal favorites is Patsy Cline. Along with Loretta, Johnny Cash and others, she popularized country and helped move it beyond Appalachia. As Nashville has evolved to some form of nascar pop, another segment has moved back toward the roots. And back toward Texas apparently. Have you ever heard a gal named Kelly Willis? If you ever get a chance ot hear her live don't pass it up. We have friends in Nashville with a few connections. We spent one memorable evening backstage at the Grand Old Opry where we listened to the show from the wings and shook hands with a number of old school musicians. We also used to go down to lower Broadway and listen to BR549 at Robert's when they were playing for tips. It was apparent that they were just paying their duescouldn't believe an act that good was playing a beer joint like that. Now Robert's is almost as famous as BR549. John

Colin, Not sure if this meets your inexpensive quotent, but you should be aware of these guys if you aren't already. They seem to be targeting this niche. I ordered some solder and DIY supplies. They're real easy to deal with and talk to and have a 30 day money back policy. They're located close to me, otherwise no affiliation. John Homegrown Audio

Vladi, Five may be just a tad thin. Jolida 102 fits the criteria, but you could do a lot better for just a little more. My suggestion would be to allow six if possible (you might get by with five) and consider vinrtage. There are two Scott 299Bs on ebay right now, one ending tonight. Take one, send it to Craig for a rebuild and he'll take care of you. You'll end up with between five and six in it. I bought an Eico and did what I'm recommending to you. Couldn't be more pleased with the value in my '59 model. There's a huge amount of knowledge on this forum and they will steer you straight. There does tend to be some controversity with regard to cables and cable elevatorsstill trying to sort this one out myself. John

tubnube, Not that I have any particular expertise, but... there are various theories on speaker placement. The Fibonacci theory is good entertainment regardless of whether you're talking audio or rabbits. It really does make a differenceprobably the most significant improvement you'll be able to get without component swapping. Height also affects the sound and it's rarely mentioned in the articles. I like my Heresy II's about a foot off the floor. I made some diy stands that, to my ears, improved the tightness of the bass and high end detail noticably. Here are some links for your late night reading. John WASP George Cardas The Golden Mean/Fibonacci The Oval Theory

MC, I looked into shipping last week . The Corns will be even larger than my speakers, so it's pretty safe to say that they'll be beyond the UPS limits for size and weight. FedEx ground allows a slightly larger size (140 in. length+girth) but has 70lb limit for residential delivery. I ended up with truck freight set up through the the local franchisee of the Packaging Store. Not sure how much difference between the individual stores, but I suspect there's quite a bit of flexibility in the MU. They were significantly less than the next best option for me. John

---------------- On 4/11/2003 12:38:47 AM talktoKeith wrote: Are you having Craig install binging posts? Eliminates 'connector' problems with speaker wire. Start looking for a box to ship your present amp in to the new owner. ---------------- Heh heh, same thing I was thinking. I auditioned Jolida in an audio store, then took a chance and snagged an eico without having ever heard one. Different speakers & components (far more expenisve than what I have) and environ, but the vintage amp with less power is a clear winner to my ears. So what are binging posts? I'm having connector frustrations and am interested in a solution. J.

Justin, I just went through the same thing. I've owned Heresy IIs for 15 years and had never even imagined what pleasurable sound they were capable of until I bought a HF-81 on ebay. Sent it to Craig and it's just now breaking in--and it's very sweet. If you can swing it, you won't regret it. Even with rock'n roll. Four o'clock on the volume will yield sound that you can't talk over. I agree that female voice is notably improved with tubes and horns, but it's not limited to that. Violins, sax, acoustic guitar, piano and the male voice too--the music just opens up and reveals its texture. An album you might like--Mark O'Connor with Jane Monheit singing some jazz classics so you get the voice and violin... lots of texture, a nice album. Hey, isn't it about time for a new music thread? This vintage amp has me excited about all sorts of new (to me) music--probably the best testimony to its virtues. John

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JM, That's what I thought, but needed reinforcement before I pull the trigger on the Chorus IIs. And I know better than to take the compromiseit ends up costing more because I'll end up buying what I wanted in the first place. Now I've got to work on how I'll break the news to my wife. I might be in the market for a new chair or china cabinet pretty soon as well. J

I've got upgraditis and fancy a pair of Chorus II's. Problem is that they seem to be scarce in my neck of the woods and shipping adds $200 or more. I have an opportunity to score a nice pair for about $800 incl shipping. But then I keep seeing Forte II's close by and selling for less. With elimination of shipping, a set of Forte II's could be had for not much more than half. So the question is, how much difference is there between them? According to specs the Forte's are 2dB less efficient but go 7Hz lower with a 12" woofer compared to the 15" on the Chorus. Which ones really sound stronger on the low end? Identical mid driver/horn. Different model nos. for high-end driver but I suspect that will not be an audible difference. So, is it a given that Chorus are better, and if so are they a lot better or just marginally? I'd be driving them with an Eico HF-81. Current speakers are Heresy II's. The Heresy II's sound great except a bit weak on the bass as is generally known. The room is 20x24x8. Thanks, John

---------------- Anybody using a similar set-up? Rega with Jolida, Scott, Eico, etc? ---------------- Mike, I have a Rega Planet, Eico Hf-81 and Heresy IIs. I replaced Denon equipment as well. Although you didn't say in this post what amp you are replacing, if it's run of the mill solid state you are about to become a very happy fellow. Where the Rega will make a more subtle difference, the amp should make a dramatic difference. The Jolida will probably be so much more revealing that I'd suggest witholding judgement on the Rega until you get it. I just got my amp back from Craig a week ago. It's sounding sweeter by the day as the caps burn in. I imagine the Jolida will take a little time as well if it's new and hasn't been played. As for good recordings, if you lean toward jazz... Dave Brubeck Quartet's Time Out in the 1997 remastered version on Columbia. Although it doesn't have vocals, the forward presence, variety of sounds and the production quality are excellent. Piano is revealing. Also Mark O'Connor's latest, In Full Swing contains rich violin with vocals by Jane Monhit and Wynton Marsalis' trumpet. These are just my opinions--I'm sure others have their preferred recordings for auditioning equipment. Is it just me or do violins sound particularly sweet with Klipsch horns and tubes? I keep gravitating toward recordings with violins and female vocals. John

I'll second the opinion that the Rega is a bargan. I found one on Audiogon about a month ago. It came with box, manual and remote. Original owner. I offered $350 including shipping and he accepted. Now, I don't have the ultra sensitive ears or experience that many here have, but I can tell you that it does sound really fine paired with my HF-81. In fact, after having listened to some expensive high-end stuff at an audio store I can't say for certain that I would prefer the expensive equipment if they were to offer an even swap. Seems to me they're focused on increments of detail but it's lacking tonality and character. I'd almost buy another one at that price just in case I decide to start a second system. J.

Paul, I just signed up for the yahoo group. Thanks for pointing us to it. Should be interesting. I guess it's hard to get any statistics on the old Eico amps. Would be interesting to know how many factory assembled vs. kits were produced and during what time period. Seems like the majority of HF-81s I've read about were 1959 models. May be some of this stuff in the archives, but I can't get in until I'm confimed. J.

The doorbell sounded especially musical Friday afternoon. The HF-81 had come back home after a two-week road trip to the NOSValves Spa and Resort for vintage tubes. No way could I just set that box aside and get back to work--the work week was over. I had to pull the covers and examine all the little parts and the slick little solders--nearly indistinguishable from the factory solders. And of course I had to plug it in for a few minutes of careful listening. Well, a few minutes turned into a few hours, continued on past midnight and was interrupted only briefly by a dash for a Wendy's salad and Barnes and Noble for some new reading material--NOT. Jazzy new CDs forced their way into my hands and onto my credit card. Delayed gratification had been delayed once again; Diana Krall's earliest and Mark O'Connor's latest among the notables. The Bill Evans Trio, Dexter Gordon, Sonny Rollins and Thelonious Monk also turned in mulit-disc performances. If I'd been smart and stayed with the up-tempo stuff I might have endured longer, but around 3:15am I forced an eye open, still sitting upright in the sweet spot chair, as Anne-Sophie Mutter put the finishing touches on Beethoven's Sonata No. 9 for Violin and Piano. Maybe our subconscious acts in our own best interest sometimes. The HF-81 is sweeter than I imagined it could be. Gone is the fuzziness at higher volumes. Punchier, tighter bass is most apparent, more airiness and clarity overall. Symbols ring brightly. The tonality, which was excessively warm is more neutral with more separation. No hum--just nice pure sound through the Heresys. Bypassing the focus pot effectively makes the gain control more sensitive and produces more volume at a given settting. This combined with the tighter bass and improved clarity makes the amp feel more robust. Some characteristics may be influenced, more or less, by speaker cables. A friend (confessed audiophile) loaned me some cables that he had replaced with Kimber cables. These are Audioquest Midnight+ (replacing 12g copper). They could be mine at an as yet unknown value price. Question is, what price and are they over kill for my relatively inexpensive system? I guess since DIYCable sells Beldon 89259 kits for a hundred bucks, and since my setup is worth less than 10% of my friend's system, a hundred bucks may be plenty. Anyone have any experience with Audioquest cables to relate? Anyway... Craig has done a geat job on the HF-81. In addition to his fine craftsmanship, he's a fountain of knowledge and quite willing to help us novices get oriented to the vintage tubes. The HF-81 is extremely satisfying--a miraculous improvement over SS consumer grade electronics. Thanks to Craig and the others here who have generously shared knowledge and helped me put together a very pleasing little system on a budget. As my brother-in-law said, "Hey that old amp don't sound too bad." I agree. John Eico HF-81, NOSValves Rebuilt Original Rega Planet CD Player Klipsch Heresy II Audioquest Midnight+ (loan)

Speaking of Heresy's and finishes, what would be the preferred oil or wood treatment to moisturize dry oak veneer finishes? Do not want to turn them into dark oak, but a slight darkening is ok and expected. Thanks, John

Bob, I will chime in here to confirm the vintage recommendations. I bought a nice, unmodified HF-81 on ebay recently. I've listened to it every day for a month and it still gives me a big ole grin a mile wide every time I turn it on. Sending it to Craig for a going through pretty soon, but it sounds fantastic as is. Using it with Heresy II's for now--looking for larger heritage. I never realized how good the Heresy II's can sound. I am less motivated to buy speakers than I was a short time ago. Also scored an original Rega cd as recommended by MH and others on this forum--thanks for the help. It really smoothed and warmed the tone while revealing more detail. Pondering a DIY Bottlehead SET to start a second system for the family area when I find another set of speakers. Anyway, vintage is wonderful--the worst that will happen is that you'll need to send it to Craig sooner rather than later. John

John, What kind of music do you listen to? I'm curious after reading your review of the Eico. I really wish I could just hear a tube amp once and hear first hand what all the fuss is about. I too am looking for a new CD player to replace my broken 14 year old Denon (DCD 320 I think). I've been keeping an eye out for a Planet in the $350 range, pretty much based on stuff I've read here (especially from mh). Mace ---------------- Mace, I listen to a fairly wide range. Right now I'm in a classical phase. But I have a lot of pure blues, bluesy rock, folk rock, jazz, bluegrass--not too much that's less than 20-30 years old. Listened to Enya and soundtrack from Schindler's List today though. Schindler's List is John Williams with Itzhak Perlman violin solos--very nice. Listening to classical is what made me start looking at equipment again. Things like violin and piano solos really brought out the deficiencies. My Denon is model DCD-810. Amp is PMA-720. Hopng to find a set of Fortes, but now for the first time I know how good the Heresy's can sound and I'm going to be patient. John

mh, didn't mean to imply a hard limit, although I do need to keep a lid on it overall. If I could take it up another notch for $325 I'd do it. I know that it may not be as huge as the amp, but even a third of that difference would be significant. So I guess I'm in the market. One on ebay but it's already up there with four days to go. Appreciate the help once again, John

I'm don't really WANT to buy a new CD. I'd much rather spend that money on music. I'm using a 14 year old Denon that seems to work and sound OK. I thought the same about the old Denon amp until heard the HF-81. But it's hard to imagine that a CD player could make as much difference as the amp. So that's really the question... if I spend a few hundred on a new CD will I hear a dramatic difference or is the older player giving me 95% of what's on the discs already? JT

Yesterday afternoon I came home and found a nice surprise. After a long, patient wait I finally have a pretty nice looking HF-81. I don't know beans compared to most folks here about tubes. And I still don't know if this example is primo or needs work--I suspect it's just fine. But I do know one thing... Last night I was up into the wee hours listening to my favorite CDs like some guy whose hearing had just been restored. I heard sounds I'd never heard before, with clarity and purity that I'd never have imagined through those speakers. I've owned the Heresy II's for 14 years and last night was the first time I realized what they were capable of sounding like. Amazing! Thanks to everyone here who answered my questions and pointed me toward this little jewel. Now I wonder if it couldn't sound even better with better connecting cable, speaker cable and a modern CD player. Any recommendations for a quality CD player for reasonalbe bucks to replace my old 14 year old Denon? What about cables? Thanks, John

thank you all--appreicate the info. There are some interesting things out there. I'd love to listen to these amps but I guess I'll have to go on recommendations. I will browse the old electronics shops to see if there's anything collecting dust. Kelly, I looked at your web page on the HF-81... really interesting. This sounds like it would fit me to a tee. If anyone knows of a nice example for sale that's been brought up to speed please point me toward it. Although I'd also be interested in just a good clean original that works. leok, I am amazed at how little power you're talking to push the Forte. I've been running 100wpc through the Heresy's and never knew it was such overkill. (assuming that Heresy's and Forte's are comparable) I mean 5 watts is like almost nothing. Why did they tell me I needed 100watts... this was a high-end audio store. Is it different for tubes vs. SS or am I just doing it wrong? Assuming I find the amp, will I need to modify the output terminals to put big cables on it--or I suppose I should ask how do you connect the speakers to the amp's little tiny screws? And what kind of cable should be used? Thanks, John

I'm a newbie--first post after having lurked awhile. I'm about to acquire a pair of Forte II's to start a second system. Tastes are migrating toward classical these days and warmth is becoming more important. I've had a pair of Heresy II's for a decade, mostly rock 'n roll, driven by a Denon SS amp. I'm ready to try a tube amp with the Forte's and know zero about them. I'm looking to ease into this on minimal budget at first. I've read that the Stereo 70 or ST 70 amps are decent and inexpensive. I'd like to know what other low cost tube amps to consider. Also, I'd like to know about preamps to pair with these as well as other necessities that I'll need to get started. I'll be choosing some type of CD player as the souce. I appreciate your help. John