Modify a pair of v2 CF-4's to v1.

[parag]

My first post on the forum - the component upgrade bug bit me recently after I realized that music/movies were not supposed to be listened on a HT in a box. And as luck would have it, I found a pair of CF-4's for sale locally and they are not v3's. Steve Phillips (Senior Tech, Klipsch) verified the same after looking up the S#'s and he has been tremendously helpful. From what I can gather, replacing the port tubes to 5" is the easy part (although I have no idea where to look for replacements), but then there is the small matter of changes that would need to be made to the networks - I have not been able to get any info at all on that. Can someone point me in the right direction?

Also, what would be a fair price for a pair in good shape? I can't locate any on eBay currently - would love to hear your thoughts.

Are they power hungry and would need separates to drive them? I have a Yamaha 6090 with 120 w/channel - is that going to be sufficient or do I need to start budgeting for something else? And how critical is the placement to their performance?

And finally, would I need a sub with them? I have a 12" HSU VTF3 which I love and would love to keep it, but would it make any sense?

Thanks in advance for taking the time to read my long-winded first post.

[haris525]

Hi, welcome to the forum. I have the same speaker version and model as yours, i would recommend running them on a dedicated amp. Maybe Emotiva xpa-3 or Emotiva xpa-2. It will bring them to life, also make sure you upgrade the Fuses on your emotiva amps, it will make your speakers sound substantially better. I am running my pair on a 20 year old adcom amp, Relaced the Fuses with high quality ones, made a huge difference.

good luck.

[]

[parag]

Thanks for welcoming me to the forum. I will look at the Emotiva. BTW, what do you think about using a Marantz MA-500 Monoblock Power Amplifier? Also, did you modify your v2's?

[haris525]

Hi, the marantz MA-500 should work excellent but make sure to replace the Fuses in there, i did not modify my cf-4 because it lowers the efficency, i Would recommend not modding yours since you are going to be using them with a low wattage amps, but once you accuire something with more power then go ahead and mod your to the version 1's. Those speakers are rated at 300W a piece, i am running mine with an amp that does ~ 260W per channel, and so far so good. If you are going to use the marantz make sure you do not overdrive them, since you have a more chance of clipping your speakers with a lower power amps, Hope this helps.

good luck []

[parag]

Thanks once again. I just saw a NAD 2200 amp for sale on CL locally for $100 and various reviews seem to suggest that it has enough power. Anyone here has experience with a NAD 2200 and would like to share it? I will look @ Emotiva as well, but I don't know if I can convince my wife that blowing $1500 (I still haven't purchased the CF-4's and the seller is looking for $800) is a great idea.

[haris525]

No problem buddy, One more thing, you can pick up ADCOM GFA-555 rated at 200w a piece (2 channel) and 600W in bridge configuration. i have seen them go for anywhere from 200-300$ in excellent condition, Adcom is a straight up company, no fancy gear, they are built like tanks; its stuff thats proven to work and wont cost an arm and a leg. i know that NAD amps are pretty good but i have never owned one my self, but if the reviews are good, i think you should go for it.

good luck.

[parag]

Saw 2 GFA-5500's sell on eBay for around $300 which made me happy. Once, I get the speakers, I will look for them.
BTW, can anyone answer what is a fair price for a pair of v2 CF-4's in good condition? Also, if someone could point me in the right direction for obtaining longer port tubes and directions on how to change networks, it would be greatly appreciated.

[Dale A B]

I have a pair of CF-4's version 3. $800 is right at the top of what I would pay for a pair in excellent condition.

I would not worry about the big rush to upgrade to a so-called better version, when you have not listened to them yet.

I power my so-called "worst version CF-4's" with an '89 Hafler xl280 amp, 145 watts/channel, and have

also run them thru other cheaper, vintage receivers, and a Yamaha 7.1 HTR with acceptable results. I think my room is

what is limiting the potential, but the only downside is that these are very heavy and cumbersome to move around.

For me, the seller would have to come down on price, as I've seen the 4's go for $500 to $600 a pair. In good times.

In any case, good luck and hope it works out for you. I know what happens when you have your eye on something and

if you don't do it, you regret it for the rest of your life. You can always make more money, but you may not get a chance

to test out the big 4's.

[parag]

Thanks Dale. I will talk to the seller and see what they say with regards to pricing. And I will hold off on the mods until I have had a chance to give them a listen.
BTW, does anyone around here have any opinion on NHT VT-2's?

[haris525]

Yea, 800$ is a fair price for them if they are in excellent condition, i dont know what i paid for my pair since i got them from trading some rf-3II's plus 300$, also i just sold an adcom gfa -555 on ebay yesterday for 300$ lol. Audition the speakers out before you buy them (that way you will be satisfied).

good luck

[wildturkey 2oo0]

I have the cf4's version 3 which is supposed to be the worst of all 3 series and accused of sounding like a boombox - not true.I heard the version 2 and did not really hear a large difference if any - mind you the larger tubes were installed but no crossover mods were made. I also talked to an older gentleman in the klipsch service department which was very helpfull - same opinion from him about the versions. He talked about that the original woofer was heavier and that it was replaced by a more efficient one and they raised the tuning of the cabinett as well.

Listen to them first and then see what you like about them and also the kind of music you like is important too. I have yet to find a better speaker for rock'n'roll (classic-psych you name it) than these. They are set up in the basement and make the concrete floor float like an ice cube in my bourbon. I also have the cf3's which are more excact and precise and i use them mostly for jazz. The cf4's are powered by an phase linear 700 series 2 ( real 350 watts per channel in 8 ohms) and handle incredible power levels - as per specs they will do 1200 watts peak and they do that. They love lots of power so get something around 200 watts per channel and they will sing for you. I also recommend bi-wiring them, you will notice a difference. They do not sound like an klipsch heritage speaker but they are a tremendous speaker. I got mine from washington for 650 US and paid another 350 US for shipping to canada 3 years back, now they will probably cost around the same or not much more. The longer port tubes should be available at speaker shops or make you own from pvc pipe. In your case they should be 5 inches long - later versions they reduced them to 3 inches There also used to be a very caustic review on the internet - check it out.

[parag]

Thanks for the detailed response. I did get around to making the 120 mile round-trip, but I hadn't envisaged that the speakers would be so huge - I had noted the measurements on the Klipsch site, but just didn't picture them being so big. Anyways, the speakers are missing grills, the floor risers (they were simply resting on the cabinet itself - is that going to be a problem on a tile floor??? If so, could anyone offer any recommendations?) and have significant scuffs on the cabinet, but they sounded good even though they were being driven by a Yamaha A700 and a portable CD player in a garage standing almost next to each other (I am sure that it is not the ideal setup I was definitely impressed with the sound and so I have to go back this weekend in a more suitable vehicle to pick them up.

I was told that the driving these at high volumes can damage the tweeters which are extremely expensive to replace. I used a flash-light to look at the horns and tweeter on one of the speakers seemed to be caked with a layer of white dust - the owner said that these speakers were set in a wall in a previous HT application. Are they easy to open up and verify that it is just dust or should the speaker have sounded bad on high freq. with a blown tweeter and hence immediately noticeable?

Finally, the seller has dropped the price to $500 for the pair - does that sound reasonable for the condition?

When you mention a caustic review, was it for CF-4's in general or their later iterations?

Also, I know that I have asked it before, but if anyone has any experience with a NHT VT-2 and how does that compare with a CF-4, I would greatly appreciate that - I have an opportunity to pick up a pair of NHT's for around $400 and NHT's have a smaller foot-print and I think a greater WAF (I don't have the luxury of a basement in South FL and hence the HT is smack in the middle of living room). So, I would appreciate any insights.

[haris525]

Hey, yes those speakers do need a lot of power to shine properly. Those speakers are extremely huge when i went to get mine i was in a disbelieve for a while but eventually got a hold of my self. The floor raisers do help a lot in moving a 108lb speaker, so you might want to buy some after market feet and make it easier on your back. As far as the cabinet goes you can always make it a summer project and RE-DO it. i dont think the Excessive volume can damage the tweeter, i have played mine pretty loud and nothing has happend yet, but then again thats maybe once a month. But from the condition you describe above i would offer the seller around 430-450$. I have seen perfect CF-4's go for 650-700$.They are worth every penny when set-up properly. if you lived in minnesota you were welcome to come and audition mine with a high power amp. Also i have mine placed in a 15x15 living room, sometimes they feel too big for the room; they are also spouse friendly if placed cleanly.

good luck

[parag]

Would you have any recommendations for speaker risers? I found some on Amazon via Parts Express, but they require drilling into the speaker cabinet and I am not sure if that will impact the sound quality negatively? What do you guys think?

Haris525, thanks for the offer of auditioning your speakers - my cousin used to live in Minnesota and recently moved back to San Deigo, else I would have taken you up on that on a visit.

One final question - I have the opportunity to pick up an Adcom GFA-5500 for $300 / B&K ST1400 for $150 / Rotel RMB-1066 for $300 locally. Rotel had less power, but 6 channels letting me bi-amp the CF-4's, while with both the Adcom and B&K, I would have to run it normally until I can get the dough the procure another one? What do you guys think? Also, someone said that Adcom will need 2 hours to warm up before it performs optimally and would need a 20 amp power supply - anyone running one care to elaborate?

[wildturkey 2oo0]

I had the same issue with the risers - on the bottom of the cabinets should be a thread in each corner which had spikes covered with a plastic cap originally. I used replacement feet from a patio table with the same thread size and it worked great. Use the risers or whatever you choose as the speakers are akward to move. If you do blow the horn you are looking at about $120 each for the diaphram from bob crites as this is a 2" throat. I fused mine with a fuse holder (cheap at any electronic store) with the value you need. I fused mine with the phase linear formula of: Power handling of speaker divided through 4 times the resistance, square root of. In my case - 300:32=9.375 square root 3.06 Amp. Only use fast blow fuses as they protect your speakers better. Klipsch has a different formula which came out higher. David Haeffler for example states in his manual that 2 amp fuses are good for 32 watts in 8 ohm, 3 amp fuses for 72 watts in 8 ohm and 5 amp fuses for 200 watts in 8 ohms. I have run the cf4's with a 5 amp fuse on occasion for extended hours/days and it never blew. Mind you the phase linear puts out 350 watts per channel in 8 ohms continous and running it at 200 watts is not hard on the amp.If you are bi-amping the amp you will have to be super careful as the horn will take lots less power compared to the woofers. I asked klipsch customer service the same question and they recommended not to. I really don't think these speakers need it, just bi-wire them. Amplifier wise i would use the adcom, i doubt however that you need a 20 amp line for it as this amp puts out 200 watts and maybe peaks at 800 watts at best. A 15 amp line will provide more power than you need at this time. Also - i never turn off my amp as it is a class AB, only class A amps will always draw the full current - i believe the adcom is a class AB as well. Two hours warm up time - who can wait that long anyways? Hope that helps - have fun

[wildturkey 2oo0]

It's late - i meant bi-amping the speakers - sorry!