NOSValves Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 I pulled this thread off the HH Scott List Server and think it could do anyone thinking of a used tube amp some good. It is written by one of the most knowledgable HH Scott Amp restorers or any brand for that matter Bill Bittle. I think he rates right up there with Mdeneen in Knowledge of the inner workings of Tube Amps. My experience in the last couple of months has shown me that I don't care what name is on it EICO , Fischer , Marranz doesn't matter if its 40 years old it NEEDS WORK TO BE RIGHT !!!!! Hi all, Most vintage equipment that is properly repaired and restored will generally perform as well or better then any modern tube amplifier, and will handily outperform most all solid state equipment in all sonic respects save brute power. I do not make this statement lightly. I have worked on several very expensive modern amps from companies like Conrad Johnson, EAR, Sonic Frontiers and a few odd ones as well as guitar amps from companies like Matchless. Vintage stuff is generally better wired and sounds better. That is not to say the modern gear is bad, far from it. These companies I mentioned make real REAL fine equipment. But, our vintage Scott amps were made and designed at a time when vacuum tubes were at their peak. The best and the brightest electrical engineers drooled at the prospects of working for companies like H.H. Scott, Fisher, Marantz and the like. Such is no longer the case. The biggest problem I see is that too many people formulate opinions of vintage gear only after hearing some unit that is in sad electronic condition. 40+ year old coupling capacitors and leaky electrolytic capacitors do not make for good sound. Couple that to a batch of resistors that have drifted in value as well as several weak tubes and you end up with an amp that works, but sounds about as good as a Fisher Price close n play. (or a modern surround sound receiver from Walmart). I'll put one of my restored 222C's or 299C's up against any amp in their power class and easily hold my own with respect to sound quality. No, these amps are not cheap. An unrestored 299C will set you back close to $300.00. An electronic restoration will set you back as much as $200, and if the amp needs a full set of tubes, you can just about double that figure. But, you end up with an amp that will probably run another 30 - 40 years with little more then a few new tubes and an occasional cleaning and bias touch up. Price a stand alone tube preamp with a fine phono stage as found in the 299C. Then price a very good quality 30+ watt per channel power amp with really nice output transformers. We are probably talking between $1500 and $2500 for modern production equipment, and you do not get the cool retro / classic looks of the Scott, not to mention the appreciating resale value not only in the U.S., but in Japanese and the Hong Kong hifi markets. Quality is not cheap. As with most things you get what you pay for. The parts I used to restore my 299C's cost more then an entire modern surround receiver. But these two 299C's would sell for far more then I have in them if I was ever inclined to sell them (Which I am not!) and the sound is to die for especially with a turntable. The only thing that really bothers me is the growing number of people who are selling vintage equipment that is in real bad need of work, but which they tout as being in "excellent working condition". When a person buys such a unit and has nothing to benchmark it against, they are left with a sour taste in their mouth because they assume two things. The amp is in proper working condition, which it is not, and that they got a good deal, which they did not. When they compare the amp's sound to other equipment, it's shortcomings begin to show up. So, they blame the amplifier and move on to something else never realizing that if they had taken the amp to a skilled tube hifi technician, he or she could have made the amplifier work correctly again and most probably given the owner back an amplifier that would bedazzle them with excellent sound. Bill B. ------------------ HH Scott Tube FM Tuner LT-110B HH Scott Tube Amp 222C HH Scott Turn Table P-87 Sony DE-975 AV Receiver Sony NS-900P DVD Sony CD 5 DISC C315 Syenrgy SF-2 mains KSC-C1 Center Channel KSW-15 Sub SS-1 Surrounds Promedia 5.1 for the PC This message has been edited by NOS440 on 03-22-2002 at 11:08 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 22, 2002 Author Share Posted March 22, 2002 Actually it was pulled of the List Server. The forum doesn't have much back and forth discussion mostly people just drop in there and ask for help. The Scott regulars use the List server and the forum. Craig ------------------ HH Scott Tube FM Tuner LT-110B HH Scott Tube Amp 222C HH Scott Turn Table P-87 Sony DE-975 AV Receiver Sony NS-900P DVD Sony CD 5 DISC C315 Syenrgy SF-2 mains KSC-C1 Center Channel KSW-15 Sub SS-1 Surrounds Promedia 5.1 for the PC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted March 22, 2002 Share Posted March 22, 2002 Bill's comments are mighty good for bill as well! I dont think anyone would agree with someone judging a poorly working vintage amp against a modern tube amp and coming to the conclusion that vintage is poor in comparison. To be honest, I dont think we have had ONE example of this on the Klipsch forum. Can you think of any? Indeed, I would say that of all the people purchasing vintage gear on this board, almost 98% have been working pretty damn good, with every one ecstatic with the sound and performance. Tube amps WILL work with parts slightly subpar and drifting, this is true. But I have to say that most of the guys I have been dealing with LOVE their vintage amps and the ones that have had problems have been very minor. Indeed, I think that older tube amps, despite the need for some cap replacements and the normal drifting of carbon resistors, are remarkable in their reliability. Yes, there are some problems, but I actually see more crap wrong with the average 80s NAD than I do any vintage tube amp that has been taken care of. Everyone I have talked to on the Klipsch forum is listening to their vintage pieces with nothing but smiles. Nothing that a little Bruce Rozenblit can't fix... Hell, the ghost of ole Bruce lives on in the text of this forum every day, right? kh Phono Linn LP-12 Vahalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 03-22-2002 at 11:34 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 23, 2002 Author Share Posted March 23, 2002 Mobile You missed the point all together !!!! I was perfectly over whelmed with the sound of both of my Scott amps when I received them they blew my SS stuff away completely. But now after major digging and investigating and scratching my head ( thank god for MDeneen). I would put my Scott's against any vintage EL-84 or 7189 PP amp that is out there because from top to bottom there are electrically perfect period. If I was to just let them run they way they were they would of most likely played for months maybe years without a hitch. But then I can bet you money that I would of lost at the very least some pretty expensive tubes in the process. All I'm recommending is either check the unit out yourself,have a friend do it or pay to have it done. BUT HAVE IT DONE its worth the trouble and if necessary the money !! No one is trying to deter anyone from buying Vintage Amps here its quite the contrary. I'm just trying to make it clear that although these Amps may sound great you should see what they sound like dialed in and electrically Perfect its amazing. Craig ------------------ HH Scott Tube FM Tuner LT-110B HH Scott Tube Amp 222C HH Scott Turn Table P-87 Sony DE-975 AV Receiver Sony NS-900P DVD Sony CD 5 DISC C315 Syenrgy SF-2 mains KSC-C1 Center Channel KSW-15 Sub SS-1 Surrounds Promedia 5.1 for the PC This message has been edited by NOS440 on 03-23-2002 at 02:22 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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