Prana-Bindu Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 I just got the thing, so I will only mention my initial impressions. One word: low-level detail. Holy minutae, Klipsch Man! I'm still getting a feel for it, but there's something else that grabbed me right away: I was too lazy to switch cables when doing comparative listening, so I just toggled the resolution enhancement on and off. This meant, however (I think), that the P-1A still did its jitter filtering. Even with the resolution enhancement off, transients are less smeared, bass less muddy, imaging is quite a bit less fuzzy. Of course, for interface limitation reasons, I have to use a transport I've never used before and coaxial digital cable instead of the toslink I'm used to. However, the difference is so stark to me (different story from my girlfriend), that I can't imagine only those factors playing such a significant role. Of course, my understanding is that those factors only affect the jitter amounts anyway. I'll try to do some more controlled listening and report back. As far as the resolution enhancement goes: low-level detail and smoooooooth! I sat my girl down to see what she noticed, so she got to choose the music (Sarah McLaughlin, Surfacing). On track #6, after listening without the resolution enhancement, she fumbled for the remote to go to the right track when I turned on the enhancement. She actually thought it was a different track! Here's the gear in use: RCA DVD (cheapo), Acoustic Research coaxial digital cable (cheapo), P-1A, standard I2S cable, P-3A DAC (Level II Wrightmods), Kimber Silverstreak, VTL IT-85 integrated amp, Kimber 8TC bi-wire braided, Klipsch RF-3's. Wow, man! Like, low-level detail! Wow! ------------------ May the bridges we burn light our way.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 P1A & Wright modified P3A not cheapo. Do you have the Monolithic power supply also? (Makes a difference). These devices are truly amazing. They make regular CDs sound like LPs and SACDs. I use inexpensive Sony megachangers programmed through a computer interface as transports (run toslink output through a MSB digital Director for additional jitter reduction/ data regeneration and conversion to coax}. Really noticeable, actually spectacular, difference with Klipschorns. Added detail and clarity is amazing. However, SACDs on my SONY CE775 SACD changer (now $199 at Cruchfield - cheapo) sound almost as good! Sometimes better when they are DSD multichannel live concert performances. However I have 1200 plus CDs that I don't want to replace and I can burn copies of borrowed CDs at 17 cents each. Figure I have paid my dues and will continue to the record industry by buying the same works on different media such as LPs, cassettes, CDs, video tapes, DVDs and now SACDs! So now I can have cheapo copies of CDs that sound like SACDs and I'm thus able to afford used DVDs and selected SACDs (at least till I'm sure the format is here to stay and I can buy inexpensively through record clubs}. I imagine that if I had a really good SACD with great DACs that the SACDs would sound better than the Perp Tech processed CDs. But probably not by a great deal. The Perpetual Tech devices are not cheap but they are worth the money and better than competitive devices selling for 2-3 times their price. If you spread the cost over a lot of CDs they make a lot of sense. Someday they will also get around to providing the promised speaker and room correction programming kits (presently only available for a limited number of speakers). They are also upgradeable, I understand. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 Prana, Are you using your DVD player as your CD transport? How is that cabled? Are you using analog (L/R) outs into the P1A? Just curious as I may go the same route... Mike ------------------ My Music Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prana-Bindu Posted March 28, 2002 Author Share Posted March 28, 2002 Mike: The P-1A is a digital-to-digital only processor. It requires a digital input and outputs a digital signal to a DAC. Right now, the DVD (used as a transport) is cabled via coaxial digital cable (RCA termination) to the P-1A. My CD carousel only outputs in toslink, and the P-1A does not have a toslink input. My plan is to run the CD carousel to an Audio Alchemy DTI jitter filter, which outputs via I2S cable to the P-1A's I2S input. I spoke to Marc Schifter, president of Perpetual Technologies and Audio Alchemy, and he told me that they run Audio Alchemy DTI's in front of all their P-1A/P-3A combos (even less jitter and strips the signal of some kind of encoding to make the P-1A's job easier -- less jitter). It is taking Perpetual Technologies too long to come out with the room correction, and their speaker correction options are few (the KLF-10 is the only Klipsch speaker in the cooker, apparently, and it is not yet available). I have heard that these delays are what is causing the sharp drop in prices for used units. They're coming out with a single-unit processor that does the job of both the P-1A and the P-3A (this Summer, I think), but I don't know what else it's supposed to add to the features. I've been wondering if the room correction is too difficult to do in one reading, and that such is the reason for PT's inability to release the upgrade. Reviews I've read of other room correction devices (TacT, e.g.) describe a very careful, step-by-step process. I bought the P-1A for the cheap upsampling and only-one-in-the-market interpolation features. Other upsamplers use dither and repetition to fill in the gaps between digital words created by the upsampling process. This, from what I've read, sounds great, but different. The amazing price and Class A rating from Stereophile sold me. I'll have a more explicit evaluation after I've done more critical listening. ------------------ May the bridges we burn light our way.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 Thanks. Right now I am running the digital out on my DVD player (which is also my CD player) into my Denon 4800. If I were to go this route, would I plug the Digital cable into the P1A, and then another digital cable from the P1A to the P3A, and then one more from the P3A to the 4800? I'm assuming this would alter the signal for all DD 5.1 and DTS DVD's I play using the digital cable. This really isn't a problem for me since I use the DVD players DAC's for those type DVD's (connected to the receiver via the 6 analog cables)... Thanks, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 DVDs can not be played through the P1A. You would run a coax from the DVD for CDs, use the supplied I2S between the P1A & P3A and since the P3A is a DAC, analog RCA cables (L&R) to the direct inputs of your receiver. If you also had an optical toslink output from your DVD player you could run that to the DVD input of your receiver and be able to switch between the two using your receiver. Or get a CD transport with coax out. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 Soundog, Thanks for the reply. I have been looking at these units at AudiogoN. How important is the Modwright and Power Supply upgrades? What do they accomplish? Thanks, Mike Edit: If looking for used, what would be a fair price for these 2 units? This message has been edited by Mike Lindsey on 03-29-2002 at 10:05 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prana-Bindu Posted March 29, 2002 Author Share Posted March 29, 2002 Low-level detail: I'm using it as I've seen it used, so correct my vocabulary if it's improper. I mean the quieter sounds in a composition, such as a triangle in the midst of heavy-hittin' drums and gnashing electric guitar, or the sound of a bassist's fingers moving along the neck. The first such detail I noticed was on Sarah McLaughlin's Surfacing, track #10 (the instrumental); the string instrument in the background had more presence, it was more discernible as a separate component of the composition and I could hear the little textures of the bow shifting direction or moving from string to string. Other examples: mouth noises in vocalists (sibilance is more textured, made up of a wider variety of sounds), various distortions in electric guitars/basses (slight clicks and pops and static that add that hard, edgy character some of us love about bands like Sonic Youth, Guided by Voices, etc.), any sounds in a composition that normally get drowned out or smeared by the sheer volume of other sounds. Low-level detail, dude. You know the kind.... The lowest price I've seen for the P-1A is $530 and the highest about $640. I understand the prices are falling because of PT's seeming inability to crank out room correction. I'm not sure about the P-3A prices, as I purchased it from Wrightmod with the modifications (PT endorses the modifications and does not void its warranty as a result thereof). The P-3A did not receive much acclaim on its own before Dan Wright got to it. Now it's highly regarded. I wanted a good DAC and I felt compelled to choose the P-3A because it used the I2S interface offered by the P-1A, and my intention all along was to add the P-1A to my system. I've been busy lately, and my girlfriend has been hogging the stereo with her ridiculous music tastes, so I can only make more promises of a more thorough review. It used to annoy me that she didn't understand why I obsess over this nonsense. Now she's getting into it, and I don't like it one bit. You are warned. ------------------ May the bridges we burn light our way.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted April 2, 2002 Share Posted April 2, 2002 Mark- I found both upgrades important due to the revealing nature of my Khorns - the power supply added crystal clear clarity and increased definition. The Wright mod produced highs that no longer had any metalic edge or harshness (except on a few poor recordings). In short made CDs sound more like SACDs and vinyl. ------------------ Soundog's HT Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prana-Bindu Posted April 2, 2002 Author Share Posted April 2, 2002 I guess I don't know what you mean by color differences caused by subtle changes in overtones. I understand what you mean by "primary sounds". The low-level detail is definitely stuff that is there, but was unnoticeable before because of the system's inability to resolve it, to present it despite the other stuff in the composition. I am under the impression that the color differences you refer to are basically the same instruments/components in the music but sounding differently. For example, warmer vs. brighter, or even horn vs. cone. Am I on the right track? If so, I can't say I've noticed such a difference yet; at least one about which I can be at all lucid. The review I read of the P-1A up against a Theta upsampler (maybe?) mentioned artefacts added by the P-1A not added by the Theta, using an SACD recording as a reference. However, these artefacs were described more along the lines of the primary sounds than the color of the sound itself. Bad news: my VTL IT-85 is dead. The fuses are fine, but it won't power up. It's gonna be about a month of waiting for factory service before I have ANY lovely sounds in my house. The dealer from whom I purchased is back in Nebraska, I just moved to Mobile, Alabama, therefore no likely chance of a replacement unit of any sort to keep me happy while I wait. This sucks. Bad. I'll be back.... ------------------ May the bridges we burn light our way.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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