m00n Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 I guy I know came over with a meter and balanced my speaker levels. Made a nice difference in the overall quality of sound. I had the surrounds cranked way too high when I had my old R3s and after getting my R7s I never bothered to go back and balance it by ear. Anyway, I never noticed it until AFTER he balanced the surrounds to the fronts, but when a nice surround affect would happen, you would hear it clearly out of the front, then boom you would hear it out of the surround almost givng an empty sounding spot between the fronts and surrounds. Now after having them balanced, it has a much Much MUCH smoother transition from the fronts to the surrounds. They blend very nicely together now. Admittidly they are not as loud, but the sound quality is much nicer now. ------------------ the m00n system FRONTS: RF-7 CENTER: RC-7 SURROUNDS: RS-7 SUB: RSW-12 RECEIVER: Harman Kardon AVR 520 DVD: Toshiba SD 3205 (DD, DTS) TV: Samsung 27" Flatscreen COMPUTER: ProMedia 4.1 c>Microsoft XBOXc> f> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USparc Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 moon, That is a common problem (setting the surrounds to loud) See also my reply on your topic in the technical questions forum: http://216.37.9.58/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002092.html on setting the level of your speakers. ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP SubW: KSW-12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted May 9, 2002 Author Share Posted May 9, 2002 USparc some comments from your other post. quote: In most manuals of THX receivers this is explained. Here it goes: Go to the level settings of your receiver. Make sure that the receivers level is at 0dB. Play the pink noise on your receiver. With an SPL meter you have to set all your speakers at 75dB. (Yes with klipsch you have to go under the 0dB, mine are -10dB for the fronts). The 0dB is the THX reference. If you set your receiver at 0dB you are watching the move at THX reference level. So, everything is balanced to 75 db. Well it was bouncing between 75 and 76 dbs. We started at 0db all the way around, did the speaker level test on each speaker and raised the volumes as needed. But the one thing he did different was that instead of lowering the volume of two fronts, he raised the volume of the center to balance the three. Should he have lowered the two fronts rather than raise the center? ------------------ the m00n system FRONTS: RF-7 CENTER: RC-7 SURROUNDS: RS-7 SUB: RSW-12 RECEIVER: Harman Kardon AVR 520 DVD: Toshiba SD 3205 (DD, DTS) TV: Samsung 27" Flatscreen COMPUTER: ProMedia 4.1 c>Microsoft XBOXc> f> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USparc Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 I'm surprised by this!!! It depends on the receiver, but with the sensitivity of your speakers I would expect negative numbers here for the level setting of each speaker? Just to be sure: You have two volume controls. The master volume of the receiver is during the level test always at 0dB. Then each speaker is tested seperately with the pink noise. The level of that speaker is adjusted with the SPL meter to 75 dB. (I expect that one RF-7's@102dB would give you SPL of almost 90 dB at master volume of 0dB when no levels are adjusted!!!) ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP SubW: KSW-12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted May 9, 2002 Author Share Posted May 9, 2002 Ok so hold on... I'm getting confused now. Here is what we did using his meter to adjust channel levels Turned the master volume of the reciver down. Went into the OSD. Set all channels to 0db With the test tone cycling through the channels, I turned up the volume on the receiver until the meter read 75db on the center channel. Once the center was at 75db, we began measuring the DB levels of each channel. Made adjustments all around until they were all reading 75/76 dbs. This is or is not the correct way to do this? ------------------ the m00n system FRONTS: RF-7 CENTER: RC-7 SURROUNDS: RS-7 SUB: RSW-12 RECEIVER: Harman Kardon AVR 520 DVD: Toshiba SD 3205 (DD, DTS) TV: Samsung 27" Flatscreen COMPUTER: ProMedia 4.1 c>Microsoft XBOXc> f> This message has been edited by m00n on 05-09-2002 at 02:36 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 moon, sounds ok. i can't control the test tone volume on my pre/pro. that's why i have to use my own ref level of 88db. what's your sub level at? myself i wouldn't take that below 0db. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted May 9, 2002 Author Share Posted May 9, 2002 OPPS... Double post by accident. ------------------ the m00n system FRONTS: RF-7 CENTER: RC-7 SURROUNDS: RS-7 SUB: RSW-12 RECEIVER: Harman Kardon AVR 520 DVD: Toshiba SD 3205 (DD, DTS) TV: Samsung 27" Flatscreen COMPUTER: ProMedia 4.1 c>Microsoft XBOXc> f> This message has been edited by m00n on 05-09-2002 at 02:49 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted May 9, 2002 Author Share Posted May 9, 2002 The sub is actually set at 0db. We never messed with it at all. For that matter, I don't think the harman kardon has any test tone adjustments for it. I mean, I can adjust the volume in the OSD, but there are no test tones that get cycled to the sub. ------------------ the m00n system FRONTS: RF-7 CENTER: RC-7 SURROUNDS: RS-7 SUB: RSW-12 RECEIVER: Harman Kardon AVR 520 DVD: Toshiba SD 3205 (DD, DTS) TV: Samsung 27" Flatscreen COMPUTER: ProMedia 4.1 c>Microsoft XBOXc> f> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 moon yea it should for the sub. regardless 0db is fine. now if the sub level was overpowering here i'd use the rsw output control to reduce it more in line. not the sub output setting in the hk below 0db. that's what i'm trying to point out. sounds like u better not touch it. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USparc Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Moon, That is also a good way to set the levels. But now the 0dB on your receiver does not have a meaning. My receiver is ultra THX certified. When going into the setup mode for the level settings it first goes automatic to the 0dB master volume. Then it plays the test tone. Now I can set all speakers to the 75dB. So the 75dB is referenced by the 0dB on the receiver. What was the master volume when the center hits the 75 dB? Well that XdB is your THX reference volume. It is all relative, but the result must be the same. So to get THX reference level I have to set my receiver to 0dB, you have to set your receiver to XdB. ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP SubW: KSW-12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USparc Posted May 13, 2002 Share Posted May 13, 2002 Hey moon, And how do you like the THX reference level ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted May 13, 2002 Share Posted May 13, 2002 us, what levels are u at when u play a dvd or cd on that player w/ volume at 0. way over 75 or 85db i bet. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted May 13, 2002 Share Posted May 13, 2002 Just posting this for grins -- Over the weekend I recalibrated my HT after upgrading the driver in my SVS sub, and used the suggestion of setting the volume on my Denon 3300 to 00 and calibrating it from there. I'm using the Avia disk, so my calibration point is 85db. I had to set my Chorus main channels to -12 (the lowest they can go), my Forte center to -10, the SS-1 surrounds to -2, and the sub to -12 (AND turn the volume on the sub amp down to about 3). Playing the Ice Ring chapter of Titan AE, I was hitting 115db during the peaks, which should be right on spec, right? Doug ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted May 13, 2002 Share Posted May 13, 2002 yea doug, klipsch sets a new & higher ref level. hope u didn't leave those settings there. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted May 14, 2002 Share Posted May 14, 2002 Actually, B, I did. Why would that be a bad thing? Doug ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted May 14, 2002 Author Share Posted May 14, 2002 Hey Doug, how did you like the sound affects from "The Ice Ring". Personally I love those last few chapters of the movie for sound affects. That's not to say that the rest of the movie is lacking. ------------------ the m00n system FRONTS: RF-7 CENTER: RC-7 SURROUNDS: RS-7 SUB: RSW-12 RECEIVER: Harman Kardon AVR 520 DVD: Toshiba SD 3205 (DD, DTS) TV: Samsung 27" Flatscreen COMPUTER: ProMedia 4.1 c>Microsoft XBOXc> f> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted May 14, 2002 Share Posted May 14, 2002 d, i've found turning my sub level on the processor down anywhere below 0db causes the sub to not wake up as easily for both low bass (from the 2.0 channel stuff like dig cable movies) & lfe, especially when listening at lower main volume levels. so i make sure to balance the sub to the other speaks using a sub level of at least 0db & instead using the sub's output control. may not be a problem if the sub amp is ultra-sensitive & wakes up w/ the slightest signal, but i found it a real problem w/ the dd 2.0 dig cable movies at the lower volumes. so i disregard using a set ref level of 75 or 85db & instead make sure the sub setting is high enough for that wake-up ability & all are balanced to the same db point. in my case it's 88db using the pre/pro tones (mine aren't adjustable w/ the volume control). just a head's up that some may be missing some sub use by adjusting to lower "ref levels". just was in my case when i read the preamp functions better at lower sub settings, so tried mine on -10db & turned up the sub's control. but then the sub wouldn't wake at all on those 2-channel movies unless i really cranked the main volume. iow, no matter where you set the sub's output control, the given signal coming in is affected by the level setting & main volume of the preamp. ------------------ My Home Systems Page This message has been edited by boa12 on 05-14-2002 at 01:13 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USparc Posted May 14, 2002 Share Posted May 14, 2002 quote: Originally posted by boa12: us, what levels are u at when u play a dvd or cd on that player w/ volume at 0. way over 75 or 85db i bet. Once I measured it with the pod race (phantom menace) Peaks of 118dB (without the KSW-12). I have to measure it all again with the sub (soon). The dialogues in the movies are around 75 dB. ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP SubW: KSW-12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted May 14, 2002 Share Posted May 14, 2002 Boa - I have all my speakers set to small, so the sub is getting a pretty steady dose of sub-80hz bass signal. I have not found it "sleeping" at any time when the system is on, for either 2-channel or multi-channel... Doug ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted May 14, 2002 Share Posted May 14, 2002 yea doug i have mine all on small too but w/ a 50hz crossover so the sub maybe doesn't get as much as w/ the 80hz cross or higher. but i've heard others say theirs doesn't wake up as easily w/ DD 2 channel movies as in prologic decoding. bass/lfe scares me cause here if the sub isn't on or things like that you could be losing some & not even know it. no love lost anyway. i think a 75db ref level is too soft to use w/ klipsch & louder subs. then you end up setting levels too low. i threw out the thx or dolby ref level of 75db & went to 85db or higher right away. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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