Mikekid Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 I have recently ordered a Pioneer DV-47a DVD, DVD-a, SACD, etc... player. It should arrive tomorrow. I have purchased the Fleetwood Mac Rumours DVD-a and Billy Joels 52nd St. SACD in anticipation. I noticed that the Fleetwood Mac DVD-a has a DD5.1 mix included, so I played it on my old Sony DVD player. Now this sounded absolutely awesome on this system! I don't understand the technical differences in these formats, but if DVD-a is better than this DD5.1 mix....I am going to sit here and play this one DVD till I drive my wife cuckoo for cocoa puffs... Anyway, please explain to me how it is possible that these new formats could possibly sound better than DD5.1 / DTS 5.1?? I don't get it..... Thanks a lot! Mike (The Yamaha Underdog) This message has been edited by Mikekid on 05-20-2002 at 09:19 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 mike, that's what i was wondering after finally hooking up the analog connects on my old dvd-video player. now i get the same 96k sampling rate as dvd-audio (well, except dvd-audio can do 192/24 stereo too) & these newer dts 96/24 disks have the same resolutions or sample quantity - 24bit. the digital connections limit the sampling rate to 48k due to copyright protections as i understand it. 1st the analog connections bypass this limitation for a higher sampling rate. & dvd-audio uses a format called meridian lossless packaging, that can store more compressed data w/o loss of material in the decoding process. so what you get is higher dynamic range which should sound better. dvd-audio 192/24 can have a DR of up to 144db compared to the regular stuff down in the 90s from what i've seen. maybe this mlp format loses even less for higher dynamic range, but like i was askin over in another post, if i now can get a 96k SR & these new dts disks getting 96/24 on a disk for both pcm stereo & 5.1, is it really that different from dvd-audio 96/24? ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 btw mike, here's a pretty good site on the dvd-audio basics. http://www.digitalaudioguide.com/faq/dvd-audio/faq_intro.htm i haven't even really looked into sacd much yet. that tech w/ 1 bit & all confused me too much to even start trying to figure it out. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikekid Posted May 20, 2002 Author Share Posted May 20, 2002 Thanks for the reply Boa, I am pretty thick when it comes to this, but I understand a bit better now. I am looking forward to getting home from work tomorrow and getting this new DVD player together! I'll check back with how it goes........... Thanks again!! Mike (The Yamaha Underdog) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 mike, btw take it you have that dvd-video player hooked by digital connection. i have that fleet mac too. what you're hearing so far is probably just a great mix in 5.1. from what others have said, wait til you hear it in the dvd-audio format. should be much more cleaner & dynamic sounding. that's what i've found w/ my recent experimentation using analog & dts 96/24 disk. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted May 21, 2002 Share Posted May 21, 2002 Hey Boa - Since I'm lazy I'll just ask rather than look it up ... Do you know if all DVD players pass the 96k sampling rate using the analog audio outputs, or (like CD players) only certain ones? IOW, is it a requirement of the DVD format that the DACs in a DVD player output the 96k sample via analog, or can they down-convert it to 44 like audio CDs? Just wonderin' if my Denon DVD-3000 will pass 96k audio. Doug ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted May 21, 2002 Share Posted May 21, 2002 doug, it should as long as it uses 96/24 dacs. though i think you won't pass 96/24 rates unless the recording is 96/24 such as w/ this dts 96/24 queen. iow, when i play anything w/ the analog connection whether this dts 96/24 or a pcm cd, my pre/pro shows a 96k sampling rate. imagine that just means what it is capable of doing depending on the recording. the player shows audio bit rates which i guess are a product of the SR, sample size & how lossless the compression tech/format is. f.e., the dts 96/24 pcm stereo shows 4608kbps vs a dts dvd-video showing 754kbps. when you hook up the analog, the denon if it shows it in the display, should show a SR of 96k instead of 48k(dvd) or 44.1(pcm). or maybe something like "96/24" will light up (probably only when 96/24 material is played). ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikekid Posted May 22, 2002 Author Share Posted May 22, 2002 OK, I set this thing up last night and IT IS AWESOME!! It took me a while to adjust everything.It does have bass management for the 6 channel analog out (large or small) for the speakers except the main fronts stay large? Don't know why they didn't include those, but these Chorus's don't mind anyway. Sounds GREAT. DVD-a and SACD are the best!!! Both formats ROCK. I'll be goofing around with this some more today......... Later Mike (The Yamaha Underdog) This message has been edited by Mikekid on 05-22-2002 at 09:07 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 great mike. bass mgmt shouldn't be as much a biggy w/ 5.1 as much as w/ 2 channel. if the mixers do a good job on the 5.1 track the .1 channel & the others shouldn't be getting a lot of the same material anyway. follow up to doug, in analog i've noticed my b&k processor lights up the "96/24" whatever i'm playing, even a pcm cd that's 44.1/16. so apparently it just gets it's que from the dacs of the player & doesn't show what the recording is bitstream wise. however i can still see from the bitstream level on the sony player display what that is. i'm just thinking to do higher sampling rates the recording has to be done w/ say 96k too (even though the processor shows 96k SR all the time). don't know if the player still samples at 96k even if the recording is done at 44.1k. imagine so. but it may be that the player dacs only sample at the rate of the recording (even though my pre/pro shows it doing 96k). ------------------ My Home Systems Page This message has been edited by boa12 on 05-22-2002 at 10:50 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 Thanks for the info, Boa. I'll check it out. Doug ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InventiveAudio.com Posted June 6, 2002 Share Posted June 6, 2002 I also bought the 47A DVD player and think it sounds wonderful. I now use the player's DACS over my preamp's DACS for everything. However, I don't think that SACD or DVD-A is that much better then DTS. I also think a really good produced CD still sounds wonderful too. However, DVD-A and SACD are less tinny and has better bass but DTS is right there. I like having the latest toys but these new formats are only a must have if you can't get software in the DTS format. DD music sounds pretty good too. I would put a little behind DTS. IMHO It's all good and lots of fun and I'm for anything that improves on older technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted June 6, 2002 Share Posted June 6, 2002 trader, & dts has come up w/ a newer tech recording also for dvd-video players - dts 96/24. hopefully more of these out or on the way. got it in this new queen that i've been mentioning. but i don't how it stacks up to dvd-audio & sacd as haven't got those (yet). do know this dts 96/24 seems to sound much better than regular dts & especially dolby & pcm-16 bit, & this i believe beyond the mix itself. & that's just on my regular old dvd-video player. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardre Posted June 13, 2002 Share Posted June 13, 2002 So Mike....now that you've had the DVD-A and SACD up and running for a couple of weeks, which do you like better? I have a DVD-A setup and just have the two titles....Hotel CA and Rumors...and am VERY pleased with the sound. How does the SACD format compare? To me, DVD-A is better sounding than DTS, even though I really like DTS and watch all movies in that format over DD5.1. The DVD-A has 'better', more 'even' bass that punches out cleaner and with far more authority even at lower listening levels. Is this true with SACD? ------------------ Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikekid Posted June 14, 2002 Author Share Posted June 14, 2002 Hi Ed. I just got back from Oregon,..so tomorrow I'll sit down and listen (closely) to the two formats and attempt (not real good at this) to relay any differences I hear. I can tell you that I LOVE both of these formats!! I'll get back Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikekid Posted June 15, 2002 Author Share Posted June 15, 2002 Well, I sat down and played Billy Joel 52nd street Multi-channel SACD. Then popped in the Rumours DVD-a right after. Yes, I would say that SACD puts out clean even bass, even at low levels, and is just as dynamic and "CLEAR" as DVD-a. I wish I had an SACD rumours and DVD-a rumours to do a fair comparison, but thats not going to happen. I also played the DTS version of Paul McCartney & Wings Band On the Run. This disc sounded very good, but not quite as good as SACD/DVD-a to me. Close though. My son and I tried to figure out in what way..maybe just not quite as dynamic somehow. It may be that the DVD-a and SACD tiles I have just happen to have been mixed with more CARE. So far, DVD-a and SACD are a toss-up to my ears. Both formats are a BLAST to listen to. Very easy on the ears...even at extremely LOUD levels. I can't get over the clarity of these formats! Sorry Ed....thats the best I can do!!!!!!!!! Later Mike (The Yamaha Underdog) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted June 15, 2002 Share Posted June 15, 2002 oh yes due to the higher sampling rate, greater bit depth (lossless compression), both have a greater dynamic range than even dts 96/24 5.1 or pcm stereo. iow, what you're hearing is a much greater dynamic range on dvd-audio/sacd playback. about 20-40% greater than even dts 96/24 dvd-video format apples to apples. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InventiveAudio.com Posted June 19, 2002 Share Posted June 19, 2002 Boa, I just orderd the live Queen DTS disc and was extremely dissapointed. I'm not blaming the format. The mix is horrible.... The music sounds flat and lifeless. I really like Queen but I can't listen to it. Too bad. I still love my 47A SACD and DVD-A are awesome. The new DVD-A holders are upgrades to the old CD jewled cases. SACD went the cheap route using the same CD jeweled case. It's hard to tell the difference between CD and SACD discs by looking at the cases. This is a pain in the butt. DVD-A is a much better holder. Also, I listed to a few SACD stereo discs and wasn't impresssed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted June 19, 2002 Share Posted June 19, 2002 trader, sorry to hear. brian may worked on that mix about an extra year to get it right. then again i don't have dvd-audio so assume that's much more revealing for the mix. the 5.1 sounded real good on my dvd-video though. take it you tried the high res format (mlp)? if so, maybe the pcm stereo track would be better. it was redone from some pretty old material (like mid 70s). ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikekid Posted June 19, 2002 Author Share Posted June 19, 2002 Nevermind............... This message has been edited by Mikekid on 06-19-2002 at 11:03 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.