HornEd Posted May 25, 2002 Share Posted May 25, 2002 Wow, thanks for your input, dndphishin your impressions are exactly what I would have predicted. You know, since I have both Legend HT and Heritage Music systems I appreciate their different characters. To my ear, the Legends have a harder edge to their sound and they will drive those SPL's... and I think that the stacked SVS Ultras give them such a beautiful, seamless, bass extension and frees up the 12" woofers from their lower bass excursions so they perform better in the mids than they did before SVS. In essence, my point is that the use of a KLF-10, 20, or 30 as a Center is enhanced by an adequate subwoofer. You see, when you raise a Legend tower (or any other floorstander) from the floor, you lose the floor's reinforcement of the bass. But, if you are running your speakers on "SMALL" a KLF-10 can hold its own better than you might think in the Center. Since my "horizontalizing" experience has been limited to KLF-30's and they have been truly magnificent. I have three surplus KLF-10's but have not converted them. BTW, the back three KLF-30's function better as rear surrounds when horizontalized. I nearly brought that up in the thread with Crash about using direct radiators as surrounds... and thought that throwing three custom surrounds into the fray would just confuse the already complex issues. The Belle is a beautiful speaker made especially for Mr. Paul's first wife... and named after her as well. Of course, his beloved K-Horns had the prime corners, but Mr. Paul's penchant for matching the center characteristics with the Mains led to all kinds of WAF center designs... including the LaScala. The Belle is the LaScala redesigned to meet WAF decor specifications. As I understand it, the Cornwall with the vertical horn was really meant to be on its side (making the horn horizontal) so that it could be hidden under a table and do the Center channel chores between the KHorns. I applaud your consideration of a Belle in the Center of your Chorus II's. I think you will be very pleased, especially in the HT area. Two speakers are most responsible for better than theater HT... an adequate Center and an adequate Subwoofer. The easy test for the Center is to play a test 5.1 (with music, dialogue and sound effects) excerpt using the phantom center option... and then replay it with the center your using. The results can be quite revealing... and the key to knowing whether to be content or find something that fits the rest of your system. Since I have an interest in audio and a formal background in psychology, psychoacoustics considerations are especially interesting. The closer you are to having three identical speakers across the front where your primary focus is... the less work your brain has to do to make the audio illusion fit the HT picture. People get used to sounds because their brain makes an accommodation to correct it. Truly matching speakers with a seamless subwoofer integration provide the most relaxing and the most stimulating HT experiences. To my mind, dipoles fuzz up the illusion of ambience... and three direct reflecting rear speakers, even in a matrixed configuration, makes far easier work for the brain to discern what's ambience and what gets the attention of localization. I applaud those who use their heads and their ears to make their systems what they ought to be. -HornED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avman Posted May 25, 2002 Share Posted May 25, 2002 hey guys-howzabout my klf-20c 'fit' problem? ideas/suggestions? avman. ------------------ 1-pair klf 30's c-7 center ksps-6 surrounds RSW-15 sony strda-777ES receiver upgraded to v.2.02 including virtual matrix 6.1 sony playstation 2 sony dvpnc 650-v 5-disc dvd/cd/SACD changer dishnetwork model 6000 HD sat rcvr w/digital off-air tuner sony kv36xbr450 high-definition 4:3 tv sharp xv-z1u lcd projector w/84" 4:3 sharp screen Bello'international Italian-made a/v furniture panamax max dbs+5 surge protector/power conditioner monster cable and nxg interconnects/12 gua.speaker wire Natuzzi red leather furniture set KLIPSCH-So Good It Hz! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted May 25, 2002 Share Posted May 25, 2002 Avman, friend and fellow Legend fancier... I have not forgotten you or your lovely, but, perplexing stand! I just haven't had solutions that you would appreciate. You see, putting a KLF floorstander to your use has another problem... the ducted ports are probably in the way of where your notch may be needed. A bold, designer solution might be to do a "Toulouse Lautrec" job on the TV stand legs and use the horozontalized KLF as a middle "shim"... But, "Frenched" Italian leg probably wouldn't fly by most Italian standards according to Vesuvio, my Italian protocol liaison ... besides, you would still need to angle the speaker up toward your ears in the sweetspot. Does the stand come apart so you could slide a "notched" speaker in? If so, I think you could get away with notching the front of the KLF-10 (without the grille, of course) and even calculate the angle of the notch to provide the right tilt to aim the horn tweeter vertically. Once I had the motorboard out, the cabinets could be cut back at each end the required distance and then glued tight with MDF painted to match the speaker. That would leave a less wide opening in the center that should still be enough to accommodate a shortened motorboard holding the drivers in an appropriate array. Don't forget to but glue blocks on either side of the narrower opening to hold the new motorboard. Having used both the KLF-10 and a "horizontalized" KLF-30 as Centers with KLF-30 Mains... I MUCH prefer the sound of a 30 with the 30's. But, that would allow you to come in only 3 1/4 inches for the notch at each side. I have had to guess from your photo as to the width of the legs... and it is too close for me to determine if that would work. The KLF-10 cabinets are 38.75" on the long side. The KLF-20 cabinets are 40.75" on the long side. The KLF-30 cabinets are 45.25" on the long side. How much room do you have between your legs... ...er, between the TV stand legs? By notching the front you leave the back side and ports in tact. If need be, you can remount the ports and do the slots on the back... but I think the front is a cleaner audio solution. Happy hacking! -HornED This message has been edited by HornEd on 05-25-2002 at 10:51 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avman Posted May 25, 2002 Share Posted May 25, 2002 thanks hornEd...i have to break out the tape AND pencil so as to have all of my dimensions available. will follow-up. avman. ------------------ 1-pair klf 30's c-7 center ksps-6 surrounds RSW-15 sony strda-777ES receiver upgraded to v.2.02 including virtual matrix 6.1 sony playstation 2 sony dvpnc 650-v 5-disc dvd/cd/SACD changer dishnetwork model 6000 HD sat rcvr w/digital off-air tuner sony kv36xbr450 high-definition 4:3 tv sharp xv-z1u lcd projector w/84" 4:3 sharp screen Bello'international Italian-made a/v furniture panamax max dbs+5 surge protector/power conditioner monster cable and nxg interconnects/12 gua.speaker wire Natuzzi red leather furniture set KLIPSCH-So Good It Hz! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avman Posted May 27, 2002 Share Posted May 27, 2002 going to measure to see if i can notch-out my tv stand. going diving in belize for 10 days...will follow-up when i get back.avman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mlstrass Posted May 27, 2002 Author Share Posted May 27, 2002 Well it looks like I'm not going to sell the 10's after-all. Only had 1 guy who wanted a CC, so I couldn't split them up. Just learned about adding them as a second set of rear surrounds on my 3802 so that's where they're going. Thanks for the interest...Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLOOMIS914 Posted May 29, 2002 Share Posted May 29, 2002 Mike, I am crushed.....I was so pumped to see and hear your work for the KLF-10 center.... My offer stands, isn't anyone else interested in a KLF-10 center channel???? If not, I understand you not wanting to part with a single one. If anyone has a single KLF-10 or 20 for sale, I would be interested. Any takers before we put this thread to rest?? ------------------ My system(s): Great Room--- KLF-30's Bi-wired KLF-C7 KSP-S6's Monster cable 14 gauge in-wall cable Audioquest interconnects Niles SPS-4 speaker switch box Niles wall plates Niles in-wall volume controls Marantz SR-8000 Toshiba SD-4205 5 DVD changer Pioneer PDF-1007 301-CD changer Mitsubishi 35" TV Mitsubishi VCR Pioneer VSX-608 Multi-room amp for Outdoor deck Polk All-weather AW2's deck speakers Panamax DBS-8 Surge Protector Master Bath--- Klipsch IC-525's in Master Bath 13" Sony Wega in Master Bath Niles Wall volume control in M/Bath Basement HT----- SE-13HD LCD Projector Da-Lite 52" x 92" High contrast screen Chorus II Mains KLF-C7 Center KSP-S6 Surrounds KSW-15 Front sub KSW-100 Rear sub Pioneer VSX-810 DD/DTS-ES receiver JVC-XV-FA90BK 7 Disc progressive DVD Panamax MAX1000 Surge protector/line conditoner Comcast Digital Cable Philips S-VHS VR-1010 1 Lava Lamp for Ambience Fridge full of beer and plenty of Don Julio, Jagermeister and Jim Beam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mlstrass Posted May 29, 2002 Author Share Posted May 29, 2002 Brett, I did notice a couple of single KLF-10's on ebay today... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krew Posted May 30, 2002 Share Posted May 30, 2002 mistrass I have been looking for a klf 30 to use as a center channel. If I can find one what would you charge to convert it for me? Would you be interested in doing that? Thanks Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted May 30, 2002 Share Posted May 30, 2002 Krew, you're on the right track if you have KLF-30's then a KLF-30 is the best center you could ask for. Doing a KLF-30 takes just one more hole cut than a KLF-10. The task takes less than two hours for a guy who knows his business... and Mltrass seems to be that kind of guy! Keep at it, you will be amazed at the results! It sure was better than I expected. -HornED ------------------ Photo update soon! -HornEd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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