Setting up SVS 20-39pci

[hwatkins]

In anticipation of new sub I am looking at setup. Particularly how to keep it good for music and good for HT.

The primary players are Denon 3802 and Heresy main and side.

My first thoughts - set my speakers to small and set sub frequency crossover high (more precisely - somewhere that best matches roll off for the Heresy) - As i read this, the LFE crossover in the Denon will manage the DD/DTS stuff and the 'right' crossover on the sub will be where I tune for music. I would SPL set the room then manage the music cross over.

If Heresy woofer is good to 50hz, but set to small there is only 80hz and above sent to it (correct?). So crossover should possibly be something a little higher than 80HZ? See how easily I confuse myself...

Two questions -

1. What are the flaws in my initial approach?

2. If correct (or near correct) what have SVS and Heresy owners set the sub crossover to for music?

------------------

Hwatkins

[dougdrake]

I would agree you should set the channels to small, but turn the xover on the sub to the maximum setting or "bypass" setting. All your bass management will be done in the Denon if you use the sub-out of the Denon. It will cross everything at 80hz (or if that one is adjustable, at whatever setting you use). You can play with the settings if it is adjustable to a lower point and see what sounds better.

Generally, you would not want to have the sub's crossover getting in the way of the Denon's crossover.

------------------

My System

[boa12]

as doug says, when using the sub preout & processor for bass mgmt, yes you definitely want the sub crossover switched off (if it has that) or turned all the way up to like 120hz (if it doesn't have a switch). main reason for this is so you don't cut any lfe from that .1 channel material.

if you have no sub & set sub:no, then all active channels automatically go to large & LFE goes to the front speakers.

when you hook up a sub & select sub:yes, then all LFE goes to the sub output/sub only.

80hz is usually the best if that's your best option. 60hz could be better but that's not available. for low

bass you don't want the sub going much above 80hz because pretty much bass becomes directional/locatable at 80hz or above for most (more like 60hz for me).

the general rule (but not carved in stone due to room response/personal tastes) is the crossover should be set 10-15hz above the rated low freq capability of the speakers. just f.e., if the heresy are flat down to 50hz, then the cross should be best set around 60-65hz.

but the 80hz setting in the denon should be fine enough. just get a good sub that can do well both at lower freqs down to 20hz or lower, but can also provide good, tight quality bass up to 80hz & somewhat beyond.

keep in mind that the crossover in the denon is both a high pass (for the speakers) & low pass (for the sub).

even if you set speakers to large (high pass not engaged), the crossover still applies to the low pass (sub). the smoothest blend for me comes from using both the high & low pass (speakers set small).

also, the crossover is not a brick wall. it only begins to filter at that point. but stuff above or below that point is still allowed through but at a decreasing rate determined by the crossover slope. slope is usually fixed for most (though my b&k pre/pro does allow the high & low crossover slopes to be changed).

------------------

My Home Systems Page

[boa12]

see your coming svs does have a switch. you'd want this on "disabled" when using the denon for bass mgmt.

looks like svs also supplies great, easy to use manuals. also explains a lot about bass mgmt. & lfe.

------------------

My Home Systems Page

This message has been edited by boa12 on 06-08-2002 at 02:26 PM

[dougdrake]

As a clarification, the SVS PC subs do have crossovers in them, and a bypass switch, I believe. My older 20-39PCi does, anyway...

Doug

------------------

My System

This message has been edited by dougdrake on 06-09-2002 at 01:59 AM

[boa12]

yea thanks for that doug. had looked at the svs manual & corrected the above. then saw your post after.

man, you're quick.

------------------

My Home Systems Page

This message has been edited by boa12 on 06-08-2002 at 02:30 PM

[hwatkins]

Yep - read the online manual and there is a an enable/disable switch.

My question may be more specific now (which I think was answered). The Denon bass management (I have tried reading the Denon manual a few hundred times) then sends all bass, whether music or programed DD/DTS, relative to designated crossover. In my current setup, the sub has little action in music and leaves a very weak bass on most music (and boomy in HT - kind of the worst of both worlds). I can't get a good tweak for both and end up in a compromise.

The Heresy are, of course, a little weak in the low end - thus the good sub quest.

Thanks again to all that have helped. Please correct any inaccuracies in my thinking.

------------------

Hwatkins

[boa12]

hw, yes if you set sub:yes & all small then all low bass from any of the channels (except LFE/.1) will be sent to sub from speaks according to the crossover point you set in the denon. but all LFE (the seperate .1 channel in 5.1) will go only to the sub.

LFE all goes only to the sub no matter what you set anything else to & just as long as you select sub:yes.

iow, LFE is meant to go only to a sub. see lfe file attached.

------------------

My Home Systems Page

[hwatkins]

Very clear now - thanks boa12. It is as hoped - will start with small speakers then go from there.

I shall return with more undereducated, inane questions.....

------------------

Hwatkins

[Huhuru]

Dougdrake

I'm delighted to know that you are still checking.

Last year you suggested that I get a sub, well, next week I will be ordering a SVS 20-39PCi, as recommended by you and recently by Tom V of SVS. I'm also ordering the 5 meter Interconnect, as suggested by SVS. Good thing for me (senior citizen), that they have this summer sale.

Oh yes, have not been keeping you up to date but I got Klipsch RS-7 Surrounds to go along with the KLF 20s and KLF C-7 Center. Hoping, and open to suggestions, to replace the Yamaha RXV 800 with a RXV 3200 soon.

Thanks for all the help from you and others out there.

Huhuru

This message has been edited by Huhuru on 06-21-2002 at 05:15 PM

[HornEd]

Boa, since your a keen technical guy into bass management I thought you might like to take a look at the review of Doc Johnson (usually called JJ without the PhD reference) at http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_9_2/svs-cs-ultra-subwoofers-5-2002.html

The review is of an SVS Ultra but the graphs and explanation about testing procedures may be quite interesting to you... and provide some clues as to why I bought a pair... as will the next review.

There is another review by Brian Weatherhead that includes the Velo 18, RSW-15, KSW-15, and SVS Ultras that you will find at http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_4/subwoofers-12-2001.html Your Velo, the RSW-15 and my Ultras all get high marks from Weatherhead.

Cheers to the Forum sub set. -HornED

This message has been edited by HornEd on 06-22-2002 at 07:09 AM

[Huhuru]

Happy to say that I set up my 20-39PCi today. Sounds like a totally new system. Used the SPL meter and Yamaha 800 test tones for calibaration. Need to purchase the VE DVD for quality calibration and tweaking. Also need to put the RS 7s on "small".

Hannibal and Apocalypse Now DVDs; SuperBass 2, Ray Brown and Latin Soul, Poncho Sanchez CDs, all sound great.

Thanks to dougdrake (DD2), TheEar and others who suggested on October 4, 2001, "bout that sub after you get those surrounds." You guys on this forum are the greatest.

Huhuru